WC's "ageing" squad

[Visro]

These are the players ages following the end of the year:

Eighteen:

Jeremy Humm
Daniel Kerr
Andrew McDougall

Nineteen:

Kane Munro
Andrew McCarrey

Twenty:

Dean Cox
Andrew Embley
Travis Gaspar
Darren Glass
David Haynes
Adam Hunter

Twenty-one:

David Antonowicz
Zac Beeck
Dean Buszan
Kris Miller

Twenty-two:

Callum Chambers
Chad Fletcher
Michael Gardiner
Kasey Green
Rowan Jones
Phillip Read
Andrew Williams
David Wirrpunda

Twenty-three:

Michael Braun
Trent Carroll
Ben Cousins
Chad Morrison
Josh Wooden

Twenty-four:

Michael Collica

Twenty-five:

Greg Harding

Twenty-six:

Phillip Matera
Mark Merenda

Twenty-seven:

Drew Banfield
Scott Cummings
David Sierakowski

Twenty-eight:

Andrew Donnelly
Glen Jakovich
Michael Prior
Richard Taylor

Twenty-nine:

Ashley McIntosh
Troy Wilson

Thirty:

Ryan Turnball

Thirty-two:

Peter Matera
Dean Kemp

Stats before I remove some of the players:

Mean age: 23.5
Mode age: 22

Now I'm removing some of the older players I don't believe will be at the club next year:

Dean Kemp
Peter Matera
Ryan Turnball
Ashley McIntosh
Andrew Donnelly
Scott Cummings
Greg Harding

Now look at the stats (keeping in mind that some of the younger playes might also get delisted):

Mean age: 22.4
Mode age: 22

That is an extremely young list and considering that the 22 and 23 are the age groups not performing, is it extremely dangerous. We basically have no 24 and 25 yr old players which is a worry and as I have just said, look at our 22 and 23 year old players, and with a couple of exceptions, are they performing to a level the club needs them to perform at? Anyway, once our list is finalised for next year it will be interesting to see then what is the average age then...

Vis

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

Those figures destroy the myth that the eagles have an ageing team. We have one of the youngest lists in the league and with the valuable experience the players have gained in the last 2 seasons we will be a formidable team in 2003+.

We certainly won't be easy beats next year, though finals is probably unlikely.

Also, I'm not worried about having such a young team next year, if they start playing together at a young age they will gel together really well, and once they are a bit older they will understand each other really well. Similar to the eagles of 1990-1991.

 

[tjrra]

Very interesting stats Visro, thanks for taking the time to post them.

 

[eagleskickass]

Interesting, Very Interesting. What I would like to know is not just the average age, but the average games experience, compared to all other teams. I would say we would have one of the least experienced lists, and now a very young one too.

 

[pauljam]

From Saturdays paper there are detail on 4 teams;


Data listed is - Average Age, Average Games, Missing best 22


WCE - 23, 64, 9
Sydney - 25, 108, 5
Freo - 23, 66 5
Collingwood - 23, 69, 5

So we are about the same range of Collingwood and Shockers but with 4 more players missing from best 22. That was beforehil Matera and Cox withdrew.

Collingwood seem to be well in advance of us at present but I guess we really need a better run with injuries to see the true value and talent in the squad - we certainly seem to be lacking a lot of passion these days (except for a gutsy few).

Todays game against Sydney was dodgy again - Haynes did well when he was given some time on the ground - Kerr was brilliant - full of guts and never stopped trying - the backline tried hard but again we collapsed in the midfield. If Cuz doesnt play a blinder we have no drive from the centre - man we are missing Kempy and Brauny.....Damn Judge kept taking Wilson off the ground - I dont remember seeing ONE decent pass to the bloke! He contested marks and led but he had to pay for crap disposal. We had no targets in the forward line after that (except Haynes!)

Anyway - things are looking up next week with a win due over the Sainters, followed by a 67 point flogging of the Shockers (I hope!)

 

[eagleskickass]

close to collingwood, except they truly have an average of about 69 games ie most players are around that. We have 4-5 players with HEAPS of experience, but age, and HEAPS with a lot less that 69 games. Take out the old guys that probably won't be here next season and the average games will drop significantly, probably about 48-50

 

[Frodo]

I'm going to have a go at culling this list, youngest downward

Jeremy Humm
Daniel Kerr
Andrew McDougall
Kane Munro
Andrew McCarrey
Dean Cox
Andrew Embley
Travis Gaspar
Darren Glass
David Haynes
Adam Hunter
David Antonowicz
Dean Buszan
Kris Miller
Callum Chambers
Chad Fletcher
Michael Gardiner
Kasey Green
Rowan Jones
Phillip Read
Andrew Williams
David Wirrpunda
Trent Carroll
Ben Cousins
Chad Morrison
Josh Wooden
Michael Collica
Phillip Matera
Mark Merenda
Drew Banfield
Scott Cummings
David Sierakowski
Glen Jakovich
Michael Prior
Richard Taylor
Ashley McIntosh
Peter Matera

Thats 36 plus one one the vets list left.

 

[Visro]

Who did you cull to save me the bother of actually concentrating and finding out who you left out!

 

[Voice of Reason]

Yeah, thanks Frodo, making me concentrate on a Sunday night!

Don't we have to delist more than that anyway though so we can draft etc - especially with such small lists?

I think they'll be making some hard decisions over the next few weeks on some of the younger players and that some of them will go - but I don't know which ones. Munro might be suspect, for example. He's played a bit but looks very lightweight by AFL standards and we're well served for small forwards (Merenda, Matera) - a bit like Craig Smoker a few years ago.

I see you've cut Braun. Hopefully in a trade as I think he's still in a fairly hefty contract, which we'd have to pay out. I don't think a Vic club will trade for him though because of his injury record and dodgy knee.

I'm also reluctant to cut Wilson. I think he's added something to us as a side, though we are woefully bad at kicking to him. But I understand where you're coming from with Cummings and Buszan in the squad and unlikely to play other than at FF. Maybe it will be Scotty to go? Or can Buszan play at CHF? I'd be inclined to give him a go in the last couple of games this year.

 

[sabre_ac]

Ok here is an outsiders view.

Yes your MEAN age is young and you have a young list.
But the quality you are lossing or that is on the way out, doesnt seem to have replacements.
Ealges have had many problems replacing stars that have retired.

On that list of young players I see allot of medium to poor players, with little chance of replacing the players you have lost over the past 3-5 years.

Look its just an observation but I cant see where the next,macintoshes,bandfields,headies,kemp's,Jacko's,Materas's are going to come from.

Your list have very big gap between the down right potential superstars and poor to average players that are just there to make up the numbers.

I see Kerr,Cousins and Gardiner and then I see a shear cliff face.

Out of interest what ever happend to Mc Dougal??/

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

McDougall has suffered injuries all year and is only just getting back into his WAFL side. He is however improving as he kicked 2 goals on the weekend.

I would agree that there is currently a gap between our superstars and the next batch, but that is because of poor coaching. Here's what I mean:
Superstars
Cousins, Gardiner
Very good players
Morrison, Braun, Wirrpunda, Read
Up and coming players
Kerr, Glass, Gaspar, Cox, Williams, Jones
Decent contributors
Wooden, Fletcher, Chambers, Collica
Unknowns with big expectations on em
McDougall, Humm, Green, Buszan

And that is excluding anyone over 23yrs(i think), so thats almost a full team without the 24-27yr olds. If we could get a Wallace or a Pagan to coach the club and get the best out of the players, we certainly wouldn't be sitting in 15th.

I do however agree that on current form and from what we've seen outside of the first 3 groups we have a poor squad. But at the end of the day if these youngsters are given 10mins in a game to prove their worth then get benched it is really hard to assess where they are at.

Think positively is my theory, otherwise we will be like the Saints. No coach, No money, No future.

 

[Visro]

In reply to Sabres comments:

We will never be able to replace all our players of the mid 90's now that half of WA youth is drafted interstate. We have to do the best with what we've got and a smart coaching panel is essential for both WA teams.

On the quality of WC's list. We have a lot of young players coming through and the only way of determining if they are good enough is to play them. LMAO sabre, they aint going to be superstars over night. At WC we try to develop our youngsters instead of throwing them into the deep end straight off.

 

[WA]

I say we keep Wilson. I think he could be handy for maybe another 2 seasons. BUT - we have to actually keep him on the ground and look for him. IMO the players don't look for him enough or when they do see him, elect to go for someone else (perhaps Cummings is paying them off )

I know I've probably sounded like the 'Wilson Fan Club' over the last couple of months, but I really do think he has and can continue to add to our team.

 

[jod23]

I think we should keep Cummings, Wilson and Buzz. We have the weakest forward line in the comp and the Eagles have a history of shocking injuries. We need as much firepower as we can get.

 

[ONE EYE]

I dont think you can have Buzsan, Wilson and Cummings all on our list. They are all basically one dimensional. I think Buszan might be elevated to the senior list but he has his limitations. As I have said before similar to Jackson, Fewster and Spinks.

I think Cummings will be traded. I think the Dockers could do worse by picking him up.

GO EAGLES!

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

Thats the problem, we can't keep all 3 FF, but who do we delist?

Cummings:For: If injury free and fit is a 100goal a year player, very accurate, uncanny relationship with Fido
Against Injury prone, can't mark over head, needs accurate passes, one-dimensional, too predicatable

Wilson:For: Very strong, makes a presence, strong grab, makes defenders think twice
Against: Bad kick, players don't trust him, getting old

Buszan: For: Young, Strong, Can play CHF as well as FF
Against: Inexperienced, Unknown player(could be a dud?), Weak shins(someone here mentioned it once).

So going by that Wilson is the best option around, though it seems that players neither pass to him nor run up to him to congratulate him after he scores. Does he get along with the others? Cummings seems the worst option, opposition teams seem to play their 2nd or 3rd defender on him, he is no longer considered the threat he was in '99.Buszan is unknown, he could either be a Sumich or a Spinks(remember him?).

I say trade Cummings, keep Wilson and keep Buszan on the rookie list.

 

[Visro]

For next season:

Cummings wont be with WC.

Wilson will be played at FF.

Buszan will assist him down there.

Vis

 

[WA]

Here's how I think it should go:

* Keep Wilson & Buszan.
* Trade Cummings in a deal with Freo.
* Judge to encourage players to look for Wilson.
* Judge to keep Wilson off the bench a little more.
* Players to act like they want Wilson in the team.
* West Coast to become more of a 'team'. Perhaps they need some bonding sessions or something.

 

[Voice of Reason]

Strong support for Wilson - and I concur with that.

It seems such a pity that Scotty can't string it together for more than one season at a club, but it's hard to see it changing. I do believe he would kick a few for Freo if they picked him up for next year though.

Incidentally, I predict that we will keep Scotty and delist Willo. But I hope it doesn't happen.

 

[WA]

It's a hard one.

Cumming's seems a good sort of 'character' to have around the club. But unfortunately, his performances haven't stacked up of late.

I hope you're wrong Voice of Reason.

 

[jod23]

I want Cummings to stay!!

Love ya SCOTTY!!!

GO EAGLES!!

 

[GoEagles]

Speaking hypothetically, if we DID trade Cummings to Fremantle, which is quite possible since he's not getting much of a run in the AFL and they are looking for a replacement full forward... what type of player should we be asking for in return?

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

We wouldn't get much for cummings alone, so probably trade him and a 2nd or 3rd round draft pick for a defender, though Freo don't really have anyone we could want. Maybe a 3 way trade, where we get a player from another club which ets something from freo.

I was thinking
*Cummings and pick 20/21 to freo
*freo gives something to Richmond
*we get Gaspar
Though thats assuming gaspar picks us over freo, if he decides to move at all.

IMHO Cummings alone is not worth more than a 40+ draft pick.

 

[sabre_ac]

Originally posted by GoEagles
Speaking hypothetically, if we DID trade Cummings to Fremantle, which is quite possible since he's not getting much of a run in the AFL and they are looking for a replacement full forward... what type of player should we be asking for in return?

AHAHAHAAH
Ok lets do this deal
How about Modra for cummings

 

[Rob]

Better yet, we'll throw in McManus and Wira.

If you take Trent Carroll, you'll take anyone.