Preview We will Win Back to Back Flags.

[vjknight]

the scenario of losing 2 of the 3 tall forwards (dawes, cloke, brown) while annoying can be relatively easily overcome, depending on your opponents.

when you have a long list of quality onballers rotating between onball & forward, you simply revert to a small/medium forward line, running on at every opportunity. quality is the key here - having thomas, didak, sidebottom doing the leading/crumbing with ball, swan, pendlebury & others feeding them (and all rotating thru) you basically have a geelong forward line, which succeeded very nicely for several years.

against top grade opposition you have a problem sure, but that group are not gonna lose many battles.

 

[Ed D]

It's a good start and mindset to have at this time of year although you really need to make sure every player knows that they have to work hard just to get a spot in the side, let alone win the game to make the finals. I'm sure once the season gets underway the team will settle down really quickly. It's good to have the depth to keep players aware of it also.

 

[Breakthelines]

I think Dane Swan said it best last night at the end of his acceptance speech, when he said something like;

"Stick with us, we will go back to back".

Luv ya Swanny, thanks for the thread support too.

Things he said after the GF and Copeland make me think he won't be going to GWS!

 

[magpielicious]

I actually thought the only thing that could stop a dynasty of flags is Money !!
At the moment we have a lot of players well below what elite players get paid. When those coming out of contract suddenly add "premiership player" to their CV, their player managers are going to froth at the mouth, ALA David Cloke.

BUT, in our favour is the loss of so many experienced players (Obree, Fraser, Lockyer, Medhurst etc) this has freed up a lot of cash !!

SO ALL LOOKS PRETTY GOOD IMO

 

[mattys123]

Things he said after the GF and Copeland make me think he won't be going to GWS!

He won't go, I'll stick to that line all year, and all of next year too.

Swanny loves the club, loves the players and doesn't have a questionable sense of self worth like a certain bald man who left the Cats.

If we win the flag (again), expect us to lose no one of real worth for a while yet, they will make a "pact" to stay together, there's nothing like winning a flag, but winning more then 1 and turning your team into a dynasty makes you truly "immortal", especially at a club like Collingwood.

Bring on 2011, I thought this would be the year we would "make our move", and finally break through, and after what happened this year, I'm even more confident we will have the best team in the comp in 2011.

 

[Swooop]

We are a better chance than any other single team to win the flag next year.

However obviously we need to beat all of the other 16 teams.

Luck definitely plays a big part in this eg bounce of the ball, injuries, ump decisions. Some say you make you're own luck...partly true and partly not true.

The other key thing after a GF win as mentioned is complacency/arrogance/laziness.

With our list, I think our greatest protection re complacency and over inflated self opinion is the club fabric, now well established and garnered by the coach, captain and leader group, and player depth...no room to coast on your laurels i think, 'less you enjoy the ressies.

Real chance of back to back, but so much hard work, ego management and luck required.

Very confident about the first two at least...we had luck with us this year, hope it holds!

 

[Kirby]

It gives me great comfort that we will not be complacent due to the fact that it is MM's last year as coach.

He will be desperate to go out on a high and there is no way in hell the players are going to get a game on their reputations. I expect him to be ruthless in regards to selection no matter what player and I would not be surprised to see him put enormous pressure on early in the season to focus the minds of any players he thinks are "ahead of themselves".

Expect a biggish name or two to be dropped early in the year and for a couple of young players to score a game or two.

 

[Martha D]

Travis Cloke will miss a couple of goals and get dropped.

Tarrant will take his place.

Cloke will come back around round 12.

Tarrant will go back to defence.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Rapt with what Swan said.

Also, hope Mick is genuine about his new 'policy'.

Still amazed people think Swan will go to Gold Coast. It's Pendlebury we have to worry about, not Swan. Swan is not going, 110%

 

[Tarkyn_24]

Rapt with what Swan said.

Also, hope Mick is genuine about his new 'policy'.

Still amazed people think Swan will go to Gold Coast. It's Pendlebury we have to worry about, not Swan. Swan is not going, 110%

Relative to losing Pendles, I wouldn't mind losing Swan for the compensation that we'd no doubt get - especially after he adds a fourth Copeland, second premiership and first Brownlow to his resume.

 

[i_hate_scams]

the scenario of losing 2 of the 3 tall forwards (dawes, cloke, brown) while annoying can be relatively easily overcome, depending on your opponents.

when you have a long list of quality onballers rotating between onball & forward, you simply revert to a small/medium forward line, running on at every opportunity. quality is the key here - having thomas, didak, sidebottom doing the leading/crumbing with ball, swan, pendlebury & others feeding them (and all rotating thru) you basically have a geelong forward line, which succeeded very nicely for several years.

against top grade opposition you have a problem sure, but that group are not gonna lose many battles.

have to wait and see about that.... that's probably the only thing that can undermine us next year.

 

[KissStephanie]

Gosh, we are not that far in front of the next bods - after all we could only draw with Saints the first time because of the lack of 'big time' experience from our youth. We're not even all that fast - see last two NDs meant to remedy that.

Come off it. Why don't you open up both eyes instead of being a one-eyed Collingwood basher? Collingwood were dearly the best team of the entire season, so why haven't you said that instead of isolating the drawn Grand Final?

That said, Collingwood still had five more scoring shots and 29 more inside 50s. St.Kilda had the advantage of experience and the narrow loss in 2009 on their side, so I always thought they would make a contest out of the first Grand Final. The Grand Final replay was a true indication of the gap though, and there isn't an obvious second best team.

We're a few injuries down from being thrown back in the sea. But the sea-gods smiled last year. And game plans, they get picked apart (see Hawthorn's last premier year).

Open up both eyes. Firstly, Hawthorn didnt alter their game plan at all in 2009, which was a big mistake, but more importantly, they were not hungry any more, and they lost key players which they still haven't been able to replace. Secondly, all teams are the same regarding injuries, so why haven't you mentioned that? There is no such thing as a sea God, so the main reason that Collingwood had a pretty good run without injuries was due to the facilites at the club, along with David Buttifant and the rest of the fitness staff, so I dont see that changing.

 

[daynestatts]

Imagine if we decide to kick straight next year.

 

[mustang]

As a hawks supporter I belive every thing has to go right for the Hawks to win the flag. I belive other teams will watch the way the Hawks played against you guys in the last round this year as a way to try to get through your great game plan. How the Hawks kicked it long to about 20- 25 out in front every time they went forward to buddy and roughy which put your back line under alot of pressure.

 

[jonbe54]

Mustang did you happen to notice the ladder positions and percentages? Perhaps it might have escaped your notice but Collingwood was able to EASE UP and still finish top spot. NOBODY would risk injuries going into the finals series if it wasn't necassary - and it wasn't. Now if you had done that when the chips were down and and it mattered THEN you would have something to brag about.

 

[magpielicious]

as a hawks supporter i belive every thing has to go right for the hawks to win the flag. I belive other teams will watch the way the hawks played against you guys in the last round this year as a way to try to get through your great game plan. How the hawks kicked it long to about 20- 25 out in front every time they went forward to buddy and roughy which put your back line under alot of pressure.

sorry to bursrt your bubble mate, but the pies were about 28 points up with 15min to go and then they took the foot off the peddle knowing top spot was secured and no one wanted to get injured b/4 the finals.

 

[mattys123]

As a hawks supporter I belive every thing has to go right for the Hawks to win the flag. I belive other teams will watch the way the Hawks played against you guys in the last round this year as a way to try to get through your great game plan. How the Hawks kicked it long to about 20- 25 out in front every time they went forward to buddy and roughy which put your back line under alot of pressure.

Your argument has no merit, guess why?

JOSH FRASER PLAYED IN ROUND 22.

End of story.

 

[daics_35]

As a hawks supporter I belive every thing has to go right for the Hawks to win the flag. I belive other teams will watch the way the Hawks played against you guys in the last round this year as a way to try to get through your great game plan. How the Hawks kicked it long to about 20- 25 out in front every time they went forward to buddy and roughy which put your back line under alot of pressure.

The Hawks and the Pies are the two sides that will dominate the competition next year. I really rate the Hawks becuase they always seem to match up well against the good teams. The problem with Hawthorn is they rebuilded for so long and now they are bringing in rejects like Hale, Hooper and Bruce. If they persisted with the youth that won them the flag their premiership window would have been open for much longer, now its likley to close at the end of 2011 season.

 

[Ed D]

If we win the flag (again), expect us to lose no one of real worth for a while yet, they will make a "pact" to stay together, there's nothing like winning a flag, but winning more then 1 and turning your team into a dynasty makes you truly "immortal", especially at a club like Collingwood.

Kinda agree but you're open to losing fringe players like we lost Anthony this year because they want better opportunities. The great thing about the current side is that it's so young, so even if we lose fringe players it's not going to effect the team so much because we're not going to lose players on top of that through retirements, which is where a lot of top teams come unstuck.

 

[KissStephanie]

I belive other teams will watch the way the Hawks played against you guys in the last round this year as a way to try to get through your great game plan. How the Hawks kicked it long to about 20- 25 out in front every time they went forward to buddy and roughy which put your back line under alot of pressure.

I think you're reading way too much into that match. Hawthorn needed to win to have a chance of avoiding an interstate final the following week. Collingwood did not have any incentive whatsoever to win. Despite that Collingwood still looked in control for most of the match, and dominated inside-50's and scoring shots, but inaccuracy was costly.

When Collingwood got out to a four goal lead in the last quarter (which should have been at least six goals), they put the cue in the rack, and went into self-preservation mode to avoid injuries in a match that meant nothing. This enabled Hawthorn to come back and hit the front, but it still came down to an easy miss from 30 metres by Dayne Beams for Hawthorn to hang on. If the match meant something to Collingwood, then I think we would have won by at least four-six goals.

 

[lozza63]

We are a better chance than any other single team to win the flag next year.

However obviously we need to beat all of the other 16 teams.

Luck definitely plays a big part in this eg bounce of the ball, injuries, ump decisions. Some say you make you're own luck...partly true and partly not true.

The other key thing after a GF win as mentioned is complacency/arrogance/laziness.

With our list, I think our greatest protection re complacency and over inflated self opinion is the club fabric, now well established and garnered by the coach, captain and leader group, and player depth...no room to coast on your laurels i think, 'less you enjoy the ressies.

Real chance of back to back, but so much hard work, ego management and luck required.

Very confident about the first two at least...we had luck with us this year, hope it holds!

The talk about luck is interesting - it plays some part in relation to injury - yet it is mainly overstated, by opposition supporters.
I feel that Swoop has hit the obvious nail on the head!

To reduce that thought more it comes down to beating the 3 sides that make the top 4 - assuming we maintain our top 2 level! Since 2000 ( the last update of the finals system), no team outside the 4 has made the GF.

The real puzzle for next season is who will make the top 4?

In my opinion the following wont make the top 4:
Suns - no chance, too many kids to develop.
Bombers - need to bulk up too much - a couple of years away yet.
Tigers - have 6 or 7 top liners - not yet
Lions - seem a little rattled at the moment
Eagles - are just starting to re-build
Demons - they worry us yet have no real forward structure - nah
Swans - last year surprised me and still cant see them taking the step.
Power - not a team likely to challenge
Crows - all that experience retired - would surprise!

I rate the following as knocking on the door:
Kangas - need Petrie back, with reasonable luck (injury wise) can surprise.
Their defense is starting to shape up - Rawlings, Thompson, Grima, MacDonald
Mids - Swallow, Anthony, Bastinac, Cunnington, Ziebell (now he needs luck) and Boomer (part time)
Forwards - Petrie Hansen (develped well last year)
Rucks - very solid HMac & Goldy

They showed glimses last year and need to consolidate that development to challenge the 4, top 8 no probs.

Blues - they are an interesting lot next year, in '10 showed both really good form and at times woeful.

Defense is the achilles heal - impressed with their ND picks - although they will need time
Mids - have a strong top liners (Judd, Murph, Gibbs, Simpson) need the likes of McLean, Lucas, Yarran and perhaps Betts/Walker to weigh in for the rotations.
Forwards - apart from Waite - developing
Rucks - fine, Kreuzer key and Warnock

Will probably need 2 more seasons to really mature!

The Dogs are a little bit of a mystery for me.
The impact of Aker, Harbrow and Johnson going, they look not quite settled and are likely to drop out. Hall is 33+ and Grant needs 20kg.
Great mids although second tier dubious.

Freo - another who surprised as the Swans, will need Barlow back - just not sure about their forwards if Pav and Ballantyne are nullified.
Kids are very good so should get into the 8, although doubt they'll beat the likes of Carlton/North given full strength sides next year.

Likely Candidates:

Geelong - they have a big year ahead, personally they should look to retiring the likes of Milburn, Ottens & Mooney. These 3 look to have done their utmost for this club.
The defense is still good Scarlett, Taylor, Enright and co
Mids - could still be the best in the AFL despite losing Gaz - Selwood, Bartel, Ling (aging a little though) Kelly, Chapman, Corey (knee a concern), Stevie J. Need the 3 forward short people to weigh in Stokes, Burns and Varcoe - these 3 have pace and could prove effective in rotations.
Rucks - a worry with Blake and Ottens (often injured)
Forwards - the best of the last 3/4 years - can Mooney keep going, Pods isn't going anywhere. They struggled against the premier defences last year - will they improve here??

Hawthorn - the horribles are the bookies number 3 in the flag odds currently - not sure they deserve this mantle yet.

Backs are a problem Stratton was gr8, Gibson and Gilham ok, most of their drive coming from Birchall and Guerra - they could struggle against the bigger forwards and also the fleet of foot.

Mids - top draw although Hodge, Mitchell, Sewell, Burgoyne need to kick more goals.

Rucks - average

Forwards - obviously the best KP forward line in the league, ably backed by Cyril.
The real concern for me re their chances are the fact that they have the worst injury record over the last 2 seasons - people i'm talking about Hodge, Sewell, Cyril, Young, Ellis, Renouf, Gibson, Burgoyne - the fact is that it wont get any easier next season so pinning hopes of an injury free season on this outfit doesn't excite me!


Very Likely challenge again

Saints - defensively they have been the the yard stick of the competition for the last 2 years and should continue this next season
They need pace in the midfield, yet very few other teams can break them down once they have the smother going - they work hard as a unit and have many role players who perform their tasks admirably.

The fact is they still have at least 10 very fine players Riewoldt, Hayes, NDS, Montagna, Fisher, Gwilt, Jones, Gilbert, Gram and Schnieder.

They are developing McEvoy, Steven and Stanley very nicely so realistically we could meet again.

Recent history supports this theory x 2 Lions/Pies games and x 2 Swans/Eagles as well - not that history means squat - simply that it is a reasonable chance.

I know i could have said all this in one line, but am hoping for more discussion from fellow Pies & BF fans on my thoughts.

So here they are Saints, Cats and ??? dont know!

 

[Trojan82]

For top 4 I would be looking at:

Collingwood
St. Kilda
Fremantle
The Scum

With all of:

North
Geelong
and
Hawthorn

Also pushing for places.


Outside of those 7 I can't see a premiership threat. Even then I dont really consider NTH, GEEL and FREM a real threat for the premiership.

 

[shanman]

For top 4 I would be looking at:

Collingwood
St. Kilda
Fremantle
The Scum

With all of:

North
Geelong
and
Hawthorn
Also pushing for places.


Outside of those 7 I can't see a premiership threat. Even then I dont really consider NTH, GEEL and FREM a real threat for the premiership.

Carlton are not a top 4 contender- Relying on too many first year players to bolster defence. A good injury run and maximum output from the fleet footed forwards would still not make up for the monstering they will get inside the arcs..

Geelong might have one last sting in their tale but I see pods and mooney as the big problems especially as ablett is not there for his 30 odd goals.. will be the first time I have looked forward to watching them in years - should be interesting t see their response to 2010.

Hawks and saints are the obvious contenders, but expect some of the younger/ hungry teams to take some scalps. Mainly Melbourne, Adelaide, and North

 

[Swooop]

Carlton are not a top 4 contender- Relying on too many first year players to bolster defence. A good injury run and maximum output from the fleet footed forwards would still not make up for the monstering they will get inside the arcs..

Geelong might have one last sting in their tale but I see pods and mooney as the big problems especially as ablett is not there for his 30 odd goals.. will be the first time I have looked forward to watching them in years - should be interesting t see their response to 2010.

Hawks and saints are the obvious contenders, but expect some of the younger/ hungry teams to take some scalps. Mainly Melbourne, Adelaide, and North

I think Melbourne, Adelaide and North may be the big improvers this year too.

Cats ( with Scott who I think will do well ) Saints and Hawks main threats. Will be surprised if Blues, Freo or Dogs make GF.

But they're all very good sides, none without a chance.

 

[Ed D]

Carlton are not a top 4 contender- Relying on too many first year players to bolster defence. A good injury run and maximum output from the fleet footed forwards would still not make up for the monstering they will get inside the arcs..

Geelong might have one last sting in their tale but I see pods and mooney as the big problems especially as ablett is not there for his 30 odd goals.. will be the first time I have looked forward to watching them in years - should be interesting t see their response to 2010.

Hawks and saints are the obvious contenders, but expect some of the younger/ hungry teams to take some scalps. Mainly Melbourne, Adelaide, and North

Geelong have problems not only with their forwards, but also their ruck. Ottens is their only decent ruckman now and he's injury prone and gets worn out. Now their midfield could be under pressure too. Ablett is gone, Ling is too slow, Corey has knee problems, it's almost down to Bartel and Selwood with players like Chapman, Enright and Varcoe running in and out. They're good players but not as good as they were 2-3 years ago.

Anyway, I think Melbourne could be an improver, also adding in their relatively easy draw.