What constitutes a 'genuine' allrounder?

[sherb]

He took what I would consider to be the most vital wicket in the Centenary Test too (Amiss, breaking that huge partnership with Amiss).

I could be wrong, but I think he and Cosier still own the only instance of two bowlers each taking 5 wickets in an ODI innings.

I found that wicket. Go to the 9min 30sec mark.

For context, Randall and Amiss had put on 166 for the 4th wicket, taking England to 279 chasing 463. Amiss had batted 13 minutes shy of 4 hours.

 

[Jack Mundy]

I didn't say any were.

"..Average not excessively inflated by not outs either, which can happen with lower order batsmen"

 

[sherb]

To me, the ultimate definition of an all-rounder is someone who could justify their place in the side separately as a batsman and a bowler.

But that definition is so narrow and unrealistic that it really can't be used imo, as too few players would qualify.

 

[sherb]

"..Average not excessively inflated by not outs either, which can happen with lower order batsmen"

I was simply saying that lower order batsmen can have a higher number of not outs, which then pushes up the average.

This happens because they are often left unbeaten when the side gets bowled out or declares.

In Neser's case, I was making the point that he had an average of 28.3 with only 17 career not outs, as opposed to the same average with, say, 37 career not outs.

 

[Jack Mundy]

I was simply saying that lower order batsmen can have a higher number of not outs, which then pushes up the average.

This happens because they are often left unbeaten when the side gets bowled out or declares.

In Neser's case, I was making the point that he had an average of 28.3 with only 17 career not outs, as opposed to the same average with, say, 37 career not outs.

Over a few innings. Over a career with 4,000 plus runs the impact of not outs is negligible..unless you have an example?!

 

[sherb]

Over a few innings. Over a career with 4,000 plus runs the impact of not outs is negligible..unless you have an example?!

I've set out, and then further explained, my position.

I'll be leaving it at that.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

At international level, I would say a all-rounder is a match winner with bat and ball.