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What will we do combat Flooding ????

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Arch

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just about every team is going to start doing this to us now as it has been used effectively twice to slow us down now, both resulting in wins to opposing teams, in relatively slow scoring games.
Especially considering we have Sydney next (im pretty sure) who are old hands at this tactic, sheeds and co will have to find a counter for it fast. Is there a way to modify the long kicking game to prevent having to kick the ball into huge packs of oppostion players sitting in our forward line ????

perhaps we may set a new trend and start flooding our own forward line ???
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any thoughts ??
 
You raise some interesting points Arch. Late last season, we succumbed to the flooding tactics used by the Western Bulldogs. I still believe we lost that game as a result of not changing our tactics from a zone type setup to man-on-man.

Carlton beat us man-on-man last Thursday night, no doubt about it. They were harder at the ball and we payed the ultimate price. Switching Lucas to the backline after he has had a c**t of a night, isn't the answer.

This is when i was thinking at half time! Firstly, get Lucas off! Secondly, put both Johnsons on the ball. It was obvious to me that they were getting plenty of the ball and using it well. We needed those hard players in and under. Moorcroft should have come on to replace Lucas at 1/4 time and should have stayed on. Our bavline wouldn't have suffered, as Fletch, Solly, Hardwick whould have still been back there.

I know i have digressed a little, but i think they way we can combat these flooding tactics is to move the ball quickly into our forward line like we know we can. A "play on at all costs" mentality. Force the opposition to chase us. If the ball does happen to get held up...frustrate the opposition to chipping the ball around until you get into a position to kick over their heads!! We should have much trouble with quick movement on the small SCG.

We'll beat this tactic that is threatening to turn AFL football, and our games in particular, into a farce!

All flooding proves to me, is that clubs realise they don't have the talent nor the skill, so they drag us down to their level. There is no skill in that!!
 

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HOW ABOUT LEARNING TO GO IN HARD AND WIN THE BALL, INSTEAD OF PLAYING LIKE WOMEN!!!

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#19191919191919 DUNSTALL THE GOAL KING
 
Originally posted by dunstall,19:
HOW ABOUT LEARNING TO GO IN HARD AND WIN THE BALL, INSTEAD OF PLAYING LIKE WOMEN!!!

#19191919191919 DUNSTALL THE GOAL KING
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It's such a disgrace that people like yourself use the names of great champions (such as dunstall) to post utter shit. I suggest you refer back to round19 2000 if you want to see a 'soft performance'.


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oh well at least one reasoned response- cheers topdon.

What worries me a bit is that flooding will work even better at the SCG because of it being a smaller ground, although in theory it is also easier to move the ball faster there, the act of flooding into the oppositions forward line and then quickly breaking once you have secured possesion is alot easier too.
Probably why flooding was pioneered first by Rocket Eade.
Either way it is something we need to figure out because teams will keep doing it until we come up with a solution.

cheers.
 
Flooding is not the way to win football matches.

The way to win is to be pro-active. Look at the Kangaroos. They have played the game on their terms over the years. They kick it long, they centre the ball and they play the percentages.

Look at Melbourne. They don't flood, and they made the GF! They run hard all day and play the game on THEIR terms. Teams DID try it against is last year and most of the time they failed miserably. We only seem to remember the one loss that we had in Round 21.

The teams that usually win year in year out (like the Roos) have a basic game plan. They let the oppositon worry about crap like flooding, while they go on and play their own game plan with minimal fuss. I think we should let the opposition worry about us, and let our team concentrate on our own game plan. Flooding has never stopped big scores if the attacking team is good enough. The Swans, have conceded their fair share of big score over the last few years, despite theor flooding tactics.

I don't think flooding is something we should be concerning ourselves with. God I'd love to be a coach!
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Dan,
Its just that everytime we seem to struggle (which really means everytime we arnt destroying a team really ) there are 10 defenders just patrolling our forward line.

Which teams who seriously flooded our forward line failed miserably ???

The simple game plan of long kicking is exactly what flooding interrupts, because teams know pretty much where the ball is headed and get numbers to that spot, knock the ball to ground and take it from there.

I guess we'll be in a better position to judge in a few weeks.
 
Arch, Richmond last year, by 100 odd points. Flooding didn't beat us against the doggies, they were four odd goals down in the last qtr having flooded all night when they abandoned the tactic, sent Grant back forward & viola kicked a few. Don't forget we'd had a bloody tough game against Carlton the week before and were probably a bit flat (looked flat again on thursday). A also believe that with the finals just around the corner, Sheedy wasn't going to reveal any tactics (if indeed he had any) to beat the flood.

Flooding did not lose us thursdays game either. A lack of commitment & general discipline is where it was blown.

I believe that even had Carlton not flooded we still would have struggled. Too much was left to too few. Who was tagging Camporeale? McViegh? Didn't go near him all night! Who played on Houlihan? Got a bath. Who, other than Lloyd & Joe looked like kicking a goal? So much for our mucg vaunted forward line! Lucas, Allesio & Mercuri did stuff all.

Flooding is only really effective on timy grounds like the SCG where you don't have to run too far to get from end to end. Theoretically it should also be easier to beat becuase two good kicks gets it from one end to the other.

At the end of the day, as soemone else said, quick (and intelligent!) movement of the ball is what you need. I saw two or three ocassions on thursday night where a player on the wing simple bombed the ball long to CHF when there were free players out a little wider (& closer), result, turnover. Dumb play!!!

Anyway, that's my 2c worth!
 
all good points dave- my (admittedly simplistic
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) point was that whenever teams use the tactic just happens to be when we play below ourselves and our players dont do the things we're used to seeing. It just seems too much of a coincidence.

I said this last year after the Dogs game, but I find it kind of ironic that we are one of the teams that successfully used the flood all year (although in a differnt fashion) and then it contributed to our downfall, and commentators all over start saying "something must be done....its a blight on the game" etc etc.

In regards the richmond game- I dont think Richmond really "flooded" our forward line as such, they just tried to play a keepy's off type possession game involving alot of short kicks and handballs, that while keeping them in it for one qtr, eventually led to them getting seriously beaten up.
 
Arch, yeah fair point, I suppose it can only happen so many times before it stops being a co-incidence.

I don't agree with those who say something must be done to stop it (ie change the rules). Coach's will work out ways to negate it - eg longs kicks from outside 50 (Fletcher, Rocca etc).

And yeah, Richmond probably didn't flood as much as do what you said, *badly*!

Hopefully this week we'll do a little better.
 

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the opposition flood our forward line every week, we have been caught out twice
both times cause we were sucked in by lower quality sides who wanted the ball more than us

i dont think flooding beat us, are hardness at the ball and our skills did

flooding is never going to win a team a grand final and i dont think we have to many worries im sure sheeds and the others will work something out

i think the best strategy is to use the wings and force the ball wide, using fletcher at centre half forward could be the key, we all know he can kick goals from outside 50
basically do what hawthorn do, keep position and force the flooding up the ground, force them to go man on man by chipping the ball around the 50, once an option in on inside go for it
 
How to beat the flood at the SCG :

1) Its a short ground - kick long and direct at every single opportunity. The 50m arc at the SCG is actually about 46m. If you have a mark anywhere near this line - go for goal.

2) Kick long bombs into the flooded backlines. Get your men back man-on-man, when these long bombs come off the hands of the talls, you will have the troops at ground level to contest possession and pressure the defence when they try to carry the ball away.

Of course tactic #2 depends on your guys being willing to get in and under and scrap for possession. I'm in your board so out of politeness I won't say what I think of your ability to contest hard balls - but you know what I am alluding to.

3) The Scg might be short but it is also fat, with big pockets. To maintain the advantages you enjoy with your loose man / run-on style of game - go for the flanks everytime, there is space for your runners to exploit in bucket loads out there.

4) Try a bit of the 'Pagans Paddock' approach. Get your Half - forward line to push up the ground and take the Swans backs with them, this will open up a surprising amount of space - especially in the pockets which are surprisingly deep on this ground. Kick long to Jimmy Hird - ball comes off hands or is fisted on - Rovers scoot around the back of pack and take the loose ball towards what will be a virtually open goal square.

Just a few suggestions - the flood is easily beaten when you know how.

cheers
 
Look at the Essendon Brains Trust @work....
Hmmmmm....No Wonder they cant beat the flood...the supporters are sooks so is the coach and so are the players.....
 
Originally posted by Bloodstained Angel:
Of course tactic #2 depends on your guys being willing to get in and under and scrap for possession. I'm in your board so out of politeness I won't say what I think of your ability to contest hard balls - but you know what I am alluding to.
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So you don't believe that Misiti (granted he wont be playing), the two Johnsons and Hird (when he plays in the middle) are hard at the ball? Caracella & Blumfield I'll grant you tend to be recievers but I'm a little mystified at how you could label any of the other four soft.
 
Being a Carlton supporter I think i can offer a different point of view. Essendons problems started in the ruck, Porter was palming the ball very well to the carlton midfielders and giving them first use of the ball. Barnes is still a great player but you dont have to be too smart to figure out that
Porter is a much bigger man and that barnes is getting older and just cant jump against bigger players for a whole game, if you watched the boundary throw ins he was slaughtered when he had to ruck body on body with the bigger man and carlton had some easy takeaways. Alessio does his best work forward and doesnt have the stamina or jumping ability to be able to ruck against decent ruckman for a long period of time.
Every team has receivers..you need them..Lappin isnt going to bust any packs open likewise you dont expect Caracella to do the same, they dont have the body strength, they are there to kick goals.
Its just one game and the situation regarding match ups will be different next time...maybe Essendon may include David Hille who is a more athletic type of ruckman to give Barnes some help.
 

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BSA, naah, I've been around for a while, I just don't find it necessary to post every 5 minutes, particularly given the drivel that's usually on the main board. You're quite welcome to your opinion too, I'm not disputing that (unlike certain others here I can respect someone else's pov), I'm just curious as to how you arrived at it is all.

Prior to 1999 I would have agreed with you, we had too many players who got knocked off the ball in pack situations or one on ones (CCC and the like), however with the introduction of the two Johnson's, Misiti's new found form & a few others we've recruited I believe we've become far harder at the ball. Anyway, that's just my opinion
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I'd wish you good luck for Friday night, but somehow I don't think you'll need it
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Good points Sticks. Porter did do extremely well. Bloody Allan!!!!
 
Originally posted by Bloodstained Angel:
How to beat the flood at the SCG :

1) Its a short ground - kick long and direct at every single opportunity. The 50m arc at the SCG is actually about 46m. If you have a mark anywhere near this line - go for goal.

2) Kick long bombs into the flooded backlines. Get your men back man-on-man, when these long bombs come off the hands of the talls, you will have the troops at ground level to contest possession and pressure the defence when they try to carry the ball away.
cheers
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BSA these two suggestions are exactly why flooding is implemented, to stop these sorts of things, flooding is used to stop direct play to tall forwards

flooding stops teams being direct by having weight of numbers at the contest

to combat flooding i dont believe u have to go man on man, but rather fight fire with fire

first - keep position of the ball, avoid bombing, the ball will only be turned over, chip around the 60-70 area away from goal and try to keep possession until you can find an avenue to goal, this should force the team that is flooding to man up

second- build a wall, if a team is flooding use all un marked players in a wall to stop the rebound, hence putting pressure on the opposition defence and midfield
 
You're close there Arch, but I reckon to beat the flood the Bombers should flood the opposition's forward line. 18 players from the same team in their defensive half of the ground, kewl
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[This message has been edited by ant (edited 20 April 2001).]
 

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