What would GR do in the Travis Cloke saga?

[aussiebob14]

I'm not saying forget the mistakes, nor am I saying that it is the way the club should be run today.
I don't see any value to bagging out the mistakes, sure you remember them, and you learn from them.

As for the passion within the club, if it wasn't for the success of the late 60s-70s you can't argue that the club's following wouldn't be anywhere near as big as what it is today.

 

[acr2751]

cocko?

its great you watched 5 flags, but what about the generation after you? That stupid trade war killed any success our club had over the past 30 years, and unlike you, those born in the 70's and later cannot even remember the good times to have that at least soothe the pain.

My tiger memories are of players leaving the club for the Pies, Alan Bond wanting to move us to Queensland, Mal Brown's genius, the tin rattle, nearly going bankrupt again, a stupid internet petition spilling the board, 20 years of draft ineptitude, two finals appearances, and 12 senior coaches.

What in that is worth me saying "thanks GR"?

i think he was either dead or on his sick bed when most of this happened GR should be judged on all of his time at the club not what has happened after he died

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I'm not saying forget the mistakes, nor am I saying that it is the way the club should be run today.
I don't see any value to bagging out the mistakes, sure you remember them, and you learn from them.

As for the passion within the club, if it wasn't for the success of the late 60s-70s you can't argue that the club's following wouldn't be anywhere near as big as what it is today.

thats not what you said though. you said our passion was because of this period.

Read the posters here, most have tonnes of passion, but were not even alive during our last flag win (some don't even remember our last finals appearance they were that young). Those flags may have created passion prior to this time, but not for those with no memory of them (its like saying the flags of the machine in the 20's drive Pies fans today).

GR did a lot of good for the club, and that should not be forgot, but he also made some massive monumental blues, and because of this I don't think he should be lionized like some like to do.

 

[acr2751]

garbage - this implies the club had no passion or soul before 69, which is tripe.

And I will bag them out for one simple reason, we cannot forget why we ended up where we are today, or we will be doomed to make the same mistakes.

How many times do you still see people say "lets just do what GR did, got out and pay XXXX for YYYY and demand success NOW!!! We are Richmond FFS, GR never waited for success!!!". If we forget the consequences of this approach we will be doomed to repeat it again and again and again.

Sacking coaches, treating players like commodities, and not respecting loyalty - these are traits the Richmond of today should not embrace, but were the tools of trade for GR. They worked in the 70's, but not anymore.

the club has had 30 years of admin after GR's time to repair the damage why did they not fix the problem??
the save our skins put us in the black but we still managed to stuff that up (with out GR he was already dead)
benny has been back less than 3 years and we seem to have fixed most of our problems.

you seem to want to bag a club legend who has pride of place along jack and tom in our history.
Jack coached our club into the abyss in which we remained for 20+ years before GR came along and turn our club around.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

i think he was either dead or on his sick bed when most of this happened GR should be judged on all of his time at the club not what has happened after he died

these issues are all followed on from the busted nature of our club after he moved on though.

Its like saying a captain who crashes an oil tanker is only responsible for the crash, not the pollution caused by the oil seeping into the waters.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

the club has had 30 years of admin after GR's time to repair the damage why did they not fix the problem??
the save our skins put us in the black but we still managed to stuff that up (with out GR he was already dead)
benny has been back less than 3 years and we seem to have fixed most of our problems.

you seem to want to bag a club legend who has pride of place along jack and tom in our history.
Jack coached our club into the abyss in which we remained for 20+ years before GR came along and turn our club around.

yes I will bag him, he nearly destroyed our club.

 

[acr2751]

these issues are all followed on from the busted nature of our club after he moved on though.

Its like saying a captain who crashes an oil tanker is only responsible for the crash, not the pollution caused by the oil seeping into the waters.

very long bow to blame the last 30 years on GR

 

[UpTheGuts]

Miss out, then go and offer Goldsack $700k

 

[Ned_Flanders]

very long bow to blame the last 30 years on GR

Not that long. Most of our issues have been caused by three problems 1) lack of cash, 2) the belief we could trade our list to quick success, and 3) the belief that if success is not occurring you sack the coach and get a new one.

1) was his legacy, and 2) & 3) were the culture he left us with - although we also share the blame on this, the impatient supporter base is a big reason we always kept looking for the quick fix IMO.

 

[TOOs_Finest]

these issues are all followed on from the busted nature of our club after he moved on though.

Its like saying a captain who crashes an oil tanker is only responsible for the crash, not the pollution caused by the oil seeping into the waters.

very long bow to blame the last 30 years on GR

Yes, a very long bow.

Don't disagree that GR brought somewhat of an empire tumbling down towards the end of his reign, but a lot of the past 30 years has nothing to do with his legacy. Do we blame Richo for the last six weeks of, at times, atrocious goal conversions?

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Yes, a very long bow.

Don't disagree that GR brought somewhat of an empire tumbling down towards the end of his reign, but a lot of the past 30 years has nothing to do with his legacy. Do we blame Richo for the last six weeks of, at times, atrocious goal conversions?

only if he taught our forwards how to kick

GR rebuilt the culture of our club, and that attitude was self destructive in era of drafts and so on.

 

[TOOs_Finest]

only if he taught our forwards how to kick

GR rebuilt the culture of our club, and that attitude was self destructive in era of drafts and so on.

So only his negative traits influenced our future? And are you saying that we can never recover? Because if we can recover 30 years down the track, why could we not recover 10 years down the track?

 

[Ned_Flanders]

So only his negative traits influenced our future? And are you saying that we can never recover? Because if we can recover 30 years down the track, why could we not recover 10 years down the track?

because it took until recent years for us to stop the GR mentality that we could trade/spend our way out of every problem. As I said, the members/admin continuing this culture is as much to blame

 

[TOOs_Finest]

because it took until recent years for us to stop the GR mentality that we could trade/spend our way out of every problem. As I said, the members/admin continuing this culture is as much to blame

Agree with this. But I think it's a little more just to accept that GR's influence decayed over time, to the point that after X number of years should be considered negligible. I would have thought five to ten years would be closer to the mark than 30 years. But that's just a matter of opinion.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Agree with this. But I think it's a little more just to accept that GR's influence decayed over time, to the point that after X number of years should be considered negligible. I would have thought five to ten years would be closer to the mark than 30 years. But that's just a matter of opinion.

normally I would agree, but as I said earlier, it still surprises me how many members on forums and talkback still go to the "when we were great this is how GR did it, we should do it again!!!". Even under Wallace he said we couldn't afford to bottom out fully because of our issues.

Personally I think this is the one legacy of the Wallace era that did some good. We had already accepted we cannot sack a coach every five minutes, but after the Wallace implosion, the admin and supporter base nearly fully endorsed for the first time a real full on painful rebuild. I know we get no credit from other supporters, but RFC supporters have shown a real willingness to endure the pain to finally get a proper rebuild done. Even now, the "Cloke will get us a flag!!!" group are in the minority IMO. Many still calling for "build our own", which is a massive change from the past eras.

 

[acr2751]

yes I will bag him, he nearly destroyed our club.

i suppose you are entitled to your oppinion
personally i am so rapt i sat through and was part of the GR era
and yes he and others stuffed it up in the end but his legacy is the 5 flags not the past 30 years becouse this club has had no one that had the know how to rebuild is not his fault imo

i blame our captain of the time more than GR for the clubs down fall

 

[Ned_Flanders]

i suppose you are entitled to your oppinion

Thanks, glad I'm allowed to have my own views

 

[acr2751]

Thanks, glad I'm allowed to have my own views

no problem

 

[Bojangles17]

This will be highly inflammitory and I'm not in either camp really but as great as many laud the great GR to be,there are many who consider him also to be an unstabillizing arseclown.

That may be a little crass, however the footy landscape very quickly passed him , and Punt rd was poorer for that....some of his work n last 4 or so years of his tenure left a 30 year legacy that we have only just began to show signs of emerging from

 

[Rodney Dangerfield]

That may be a little crass, however the footy landscape very quickly passed him , and Punt rd was poorer for that....some of his work n last 4 or so years of his tenure left a 30 year legacy that we have only just began to show signs of emerging from

Probably was crass Bo! You explained it perfectly.