Analysis What's causing our 3rd Quarter Hoodoo??

[A Cut Above]

We've been annihilated in 3rd quarters all year... is it mental? Fatigue? Gameplan or leadership related?

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on what's causing these horror quarters.

 

[OzJohnnie]

Game plan is my guess.

Plus players giving up when they know they are beat.

 

[The Lemon]

We're just not that good

 

[Aramis]

too many passengers, too many people with the "someone will lift" attitude rather than being the one to make the difference.
Its clear certain players have checked out mentally and don't give a stuff. Some are cooked and cant play out 4 quarters.
NO LEADERSHIP, Hodge is still our captain by way of de-facto but its awkward because his officially not.
I refuse to blame injuries....

 

[MacMace]

I think we have one of the best mids in the league in Mitch, problem is he isn't getting enough support. If that changes, I think our third quarters will improve.

Due to our current form in the third quarters I assume our confidence would be pretty low, clearly this would impact on our performances as well.

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[SA HAWK]

The top 4 options.

 

[cryptor]

Fatigue.

Our first quarter relied on manic pressure. Our guys were running hard all the time to man the mark, chase a player, keep the zone in formation, and lay hard tackles. And that's just the physical fatigue. If our gameplan is as complex as rumour suggests then there'd genuinely be plenty of mental fatigue as well.

 

[SSSSSS]

Teams go in with their plan A. Realise that it's not too much chop.

Half time they regroup and decide to go balls to the walls run and carry and smash us completely. Win.

 

[tige19]

I'll go the first 4 options and throw in lack of hunger to perform,

 

[Cleavy]

being peahearts, but I can't discount the possibility of aliens.

 

[Snoref]

My theory is that our list is too old, we go into games with too many of our 'key' players being over the wrong side of 30. This is evident as we always go well first two quarters, but then as the game goes on they get slower and fatigue. Look at the games we lost and when we have been scored heavily against, it has been against teams that have run and carried, we can cope during the first two quarters, but if they continue with it, ie. St Kilda game we managed to keep up until half time...its been the case in many of our games even Collingwood- 2nd quarter the pies started their running game, we were still 'fresh' enough to cope, but then in the 3rd and last we weren't. Basically we have are carrying too many vets into games...add to that our running players like Hartung (has come on and not improved to the point of replacing Hill), Smith (too much left to him to provide run and carry) and to some extent players like Birchall (being injured) we lack speed. This means we are slow and as the game goes on we get slower (due to the vets)

Compounding that is the fact that our skills this year have been deplorable, meaning that it leads to alot of turn overs and that means more defending, running back to cover when the turn over occurs.

I don't know whats happened but out skills have deteriorated, whether its been a change at training or coaches? Not sure.

Another thing I have noticed since 2016, is that our forward structure seems to be chaotic. There appears to be no system and often we score because we have quality forwards to make it happen. This eventually takes a toll on the players, which has lead to us being one of the worst teams at converting going into our forward.

The last game where we look 'good' going forward was probably the brisbane game, but it was probably due to their lack of organisation/inexperience down back that made us look better.

This is just some of my observations, don't know if its accurate, but just my opinion

 

[HODGEYROAD]

We're just not that good

I think we all agree with aren't much good, but our 1st halves and 2nd halves have a massive discrepancy and that's why the question is being asked.

 

[The Lemon]

We just can't play 4 quarters anymore.

 

[Qlder_19]

I know this might be just a tad simplistic
But 'Inexperience' both mentally and physically has a fair amount to answer for
Unfortunately this dosen't get fixed overnight it takes time
Let's revisit this in 8 weeks to see if there is any improvement
We may surprise even ourselves and a few others

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Each time we turn in an insipid performance like yesterday, I fear how difficult it is going to be convincing Burton to stay if/when he gets an offer to return home.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Partly our players not going hard enough, partly the opposition going harder.

We also don't get the protection from the umpires that some teams do (hawthorn defines the term "earning a free," despite the opposition fans tears). It doesn't seem like too big of a deal, but make no mistake, as teams go in harder, they infringe more. It has been a common occurance for years, and when it happens we give up a lot of goals. Without Sam Mitchell there to steady the midfield, and with Gibson completely losing all talent, combined with no link players on halfback and half forward (due to injury), we can't pull them back in


Finally, we generally spent our 3peat not putting teams away. The mental edge that gives is understated. Geelong still have teams stop in their tracks nearly 10 years on as a result of the scarring from those beltings.

 

[satan1]

We have started to accept mediocrity.

With age our old heroes aren't good enough to wrestle back control anymore and with Lew and Sam gone there are a few less players you would be embarrassed to play so poorly along side.

 

[Lethality]

Too many young players, too many old players. Not enough in between. Regardless of when it happens, that usually leads to bad performance.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

It's attitude. Once a team puts a roll on against us our players stop talking and their heads go down. I noticed it visibly on Saturday as well as at the Geelong game. When Collingwood got back in front in the fourth quarter when the players were walking back to the bounce not one of them was talking to a team mate, and you could see numerous players with their heads down. There's a massive disconnect there. That's on the entire leadership group - why Roughie wasn't revving up the forwards, Smith or Shiels the midfield and Hodge the defenders is beyond me.

I know professional sports is a level beyond - but back in my junior sports days if the team wasn't communicating on field then you knew you were going to get smashed even if your gun players were showing up.

Really not sure how you address this considering the level of senior players (even with the injuries) we have.

 

[Agent Smith]

 

[Hawk Dork]

Not switching to plan B quick enough to counter the oppositions switch to plan B after half time.

 

[OzJohnnie]

http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/news/2017-05-22/secondhalf-fadeouts-unexplainable

Clarko says he doesn't know either.

"If anyone knew the answer to (our second-half woes), they'd be sitting where I am," Clarkson said.

"It's not easy sometimes in this caper … it was moving ever-so-slightly away from what we were doing well in the first half and that fuelled a lot of their play.

"In the end, that gave them ball control, because if you give them the ball in open space in the back end (you are in trouble).

"We'll keep working on it and we're pleased with what we did in the first half and there were some really positive signs, but (we're) obviously disappointed with the way we finished off the game."​

 

[StillAtLarge]

During the threepeat Hawthorn were the best side I've seen at arresting opposition momentum. The team would recognise when we were under siege and just slow the game down by chipping the footy and maintaining possession. It'd physically & mentally stretch the oppo, dragging their players around until we found someone in space who would inevitably spot up a teammate inside 50.
Now we just don't have the skills to control the footy, let alone score off a slow play but that doesn't stop us attempting it. We slow the game down, it doesn't work then we battle to regain the same tempo that we started with.

 

[Upgrayedd]

During the threepeat Hawthorn were the best side I've seen at arresting opposition momentum. The team would recognise when we were under siege and just slow the game down by chipping the footy and maintaining possession. It'd physically & mentally stretch the oppo, dragging their players around until we found someone in space who would inevitably spot up a teammate inside 50.
Now we just don't have the skills to control the footy, let alone score off a slow play but that doesn't stop us attempting it. We slow the game down, it doesn't work then we battle to regain the same tempo that we started with.

Rule changes help

So in 2016 Freo went to shit because of the interpretations of out of bounds rule/holding the ball meaning they wernt forcing as many stoppages where guys like Sandilands/Mundy were unmatched

This year the umpires are red hot on stepping over the line, calling play on really pushing teams to dash and take the game on. Having Mitchell out and losing Birchall (our two best at this) as just utterly ****ed us.

 

[bungholes_premiers]

"i have 3/4 flags, cant be arsed digging in anymore"