What's going wrong?

[rant]

In 2011 we went from 16th to 4th and WC celebrated a change of fortune and putting the drug years behind them.
In 2012 we backed it up finishing 5th.
In 2013 we were widely tipped to improve further and make it to the grand finals. Ended up with a shocking run of injuries that was partially to blame for sliding back down the ladder.
In 2014 having near full a near full strength team and struggling to make it into the top 8!?!?

Have not lost many significant players over that time. Kerr, Embley were in and out of the team. Ebert and Stevens traded but often unable to make the 22. Glass only retiring recently. Not an aging list except Cox. Core group of players getting 100 games under their belt.

In 2011: Darling, Shuey, Selwood, Gaff, Naitanui, Mckenzie were all elite in the making. All of a sudden we dont have enough talent anymore


Whats wrong?

1. Everyone else improving more in last 2 years and figured us out.
2. 2011 and 2012 were flukes and we arent as good as we seemed.
3. Management, team plans and coaching issues.
4. Player group have not the drive for hard work and the next step up.

Where are we going in 2015-2016?
12-18th
9-11th
5-8th
1-4th

I think we are severely underachieving with this group and should be in the 5-8th group.

 

[Lion El'Johnson]

You cannot fluke an entire season so rule out number 2.

 

[rant]

Personally. In 2011 and 2012 we were the masters of locking in the ball in our forward 50. Probably second best after Hawthorn.
Since then, teams have planned well in terms of
1. nullifying our forward 50 entries to scoring goals (stop the contested marking and bring it down to ground then mop up as we have no crumbers). When their defence is poor e.g. GWS, Melbourne our forward 50 entries blows them out of the water in 100 point wins. When good teams stop the contested marking e.g. collingwood game then we can't score enough despite multitude of forward 50 entries.
2. They are finding it easier to transition to their forward 50s. Can't lock it into our forward 50 anymore. Opposition just run forward in packs resulting in WC having the worst record for opposition scoring goals from least number of forward 50 entries

Figuring this out keep us in the hunt with better teams.

 

[Mancey]

We got worked out in 2013. Our big pluses were the rolling forward press and the way we got outside run via shuey and gaff.

Teams learned to combat the press with ball movement, and Gaff and Shuey were identified as the keys and were shut down. Everyone made us play contested footy and our small, slow bodies have been shown up.

We still have a great spine though, and thats the hardest to build. We'll be right

 

[Wosh]

Give the new coach a year or 2 to work with them and find what works through our midfield, hopefully Kennedy and Darling get their act together..and some more games into our younger/newer players..I am confident for 2015-16. My biggest frustration is how slow and generally half hearted we look when we chase, contest, tackle ect, I reckon we can improve that by 25% at least and then some, we need fierceness and body commitment..we look soft and I HATE that.

 

[steve hucka]

The game moves so quickly and I believe we got left behind ! John worsfold traded for elite running midfielders thinking we could get an advantage from that, but these days every team's fitness programs are elite and if player's werent elite runner's when they join clubs they are now ! I think other teams went down the path of the bigger bodied midfielders and that's where we got left behind , Also these days you need to be able to hit targets or you will get hurt real quick, You get the feeling when simpson joined the club he realized how much the skills are lacking compared to Hawthorn and by all reports he's training hard on skill drills !

 

[Arthaus]

i dont know if anything is going wrong as such, most wanted a change and thats what we've got, a team in change mode. many cant accept the time it takes to implement a new coach and gameplan. of course theres no guarantee the coach will be successful either. its an unknown.

half our onfield problems are clean delivery to forwards, contested marking by them, and converting.
as mentioned the opposition have identified our talls advantage and successfully nullified it for the most part, by ganging JK and Darling, spoiling marks, bringing ball to ground and mopping up. the other problem here is player communication-players being together long enough to understand each others moves etc..JK mentioned this as a problem with an unsettled team and new gameplan. it takes time to gel. gaff and shuey get hard tagged mostly. when the team comes together and is stronger as a whole, with other players coming to the fore, or an even spread of talent and skills, then gaff and shuey should find room to move.

i think weve got the troops, or will have post 2014 offseason, along with a stronger settled gameplan and ball movement..the final pieces to the jigsaw shouldve been implemented, tweaked and tuned. just needs to all come together.you get glimpses of what it could be in different games, discounting the ongoing ugly patched up 'team in flux' mode we often get served.

whoever was responsible for getting bennell, yeo and ellis knows their stuff..the most positive immediate results in years of drafting and trading (darling aside). thats a huge improvement in the offices/management right there, and cant wait to see who's brought in next in coming trade season.

my confidence in the coach suffered a minor setback with the bennell sub thing..what was he thinking? but at least you can see different things being tried out.

 

[Prem87]

Bennell's played almost every game this year, coming for a ACL 2 years back - he'll need some rest every now and then. He's been doing amazingly well considering. Give him another preseason and he'll be cutting it up next year.

 

[Dark Sharks]

Simmo is still working on his list, we were never in for a big year this year IMO.

What's funny is how I CONSTANTLY read/hear stupid shit like "WCE was touted as a top 4 candidate in 2014"..... by who? I mean... hello, did anyone actually see us play last year? We were pathetic and came 13th, but top 4 the following year, no worries mate.

The list just needs more turnover, give Simmo time, he's been doing the job for like 9 months.

 

[lmach]

Pretty much what Mancey and Dark Sharks said. Plus...

Simpson is 13 games into his tenure. He's already made big changes that Woosha probably never would've - played Bennell from round one, helped recruit Ellis, moved Darling, Yeo and Hurn to the midfield for periods, given games to McGovern, College and Tunbridge (would've been more for the latter two if not for injuries), leaving Cox out for Lycett two weeks in a row, hasn't played McGinnity.

Simpson has the right ideas, he's a smart guy, he just needs time. 13 games is nothing, he's still getting to know everyone. The next couple of years will see the biggest change and we'll see Simpson put his stamp on the list.

We'll get back to the top again, we always do.

 

[swingdog]

the other problem here is player communication-players being together long enough to understand each others moves etc..JK mentioned this as a problem with an unsettled team and new gameplan. it takes time to gel. gaff and shuey get hard tagged mostly. when the team comes together and is stronger as a whole, with other players coming to the fore, or an even spread of talent and skills, then gaff and shuey should find room to move.

This was noticeable at the game, lots of pointing of fingers by Darling and Kennedy in the forward line, mainly making sure they and McGovern weren't crowding each other's space. At least, they're working hard at it.

 

[Keys]

My biggest frustration is how slow and generally half hearted we look when we chase, contest, tackle ect, I reckon we can improve that by 25% at least and then some, we need fierceness and body commitment..we look soft and I HATE that.

This is something that I've noticed also - I can't remember the last time I sat down to watch a game and went wow the guys really look ON today. Theres and intensity and fierceness that is missing from our game and has been for a long time

 

[rEALdEAL86]

i rekon last year injuries and exposed gameplan was the reason, plus woosha looked burned out.

this year i think its just new coach new gameplan, will be better next year for sure

 

[Adzam]

Even in 2011-12 our midfield was not exactly elite. It worked but just barly and has since taken a step back.

 

[swingdog]

This is something that I've noticed also - I can't remember the last time I sat down to watch a game and went wow the guys really look ON today. Theres and intensity and fierceness that is missing from our game and has been for a long time

They picked up yesterday in second quarter - not sure if they had a rocket from their coaches, or whether they like to have something to chase.

 

[Prem87]

Even in 2011-12 our midfield was not exactly elite. It worked but just barly and has since taken a step back.

We had Kerr & Embley taking a lot of heat of the younger players. Cox, Glass were in great form, as was Naitanui.

 

[lmach]

This is something that I've noticed also - I can't remember the last time I sat down to watch a game and went wow the guys really look ON today. Theres and intensity and fierceness that is missing from our game and has been for a long time

The Collingwood game was the best it's been all year. The second derby last year was probably the best pressure I've seen us apply since 2012.

 

[bodazoka]

Allot of our premium ball movers have gone backwards and we lost Kerr. The same team this year with Kerr in it and an improved output from Masten and Shuey wins us those close games we lost around the Blues game.

EDIT: Agree with our lack of intensity without the ball also, we don't seem to be able to stop the opposition from moving the ball like we did a few years ago.

 

[Marlin01]

Give the new coach a year or 2 to work with them and find what works through our midfield, hopefully Kennedy and Darling get their act together..and some more games into our younger/newer players..I am confident for 2015-16. My biggest frustration is how slow and generally half hearted we look when we chase, contest, tackle ect, I reckon we can improve that by 25% at least and then some, we need fierceness and body commitment..we look soft and I HATE that.

I agree. Another thing that irritates me is we are always on the receiving end of the general pushing and shoving that goes on. I know it isn't a big thing, but we seem so meek and submissive.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

I do think we have a development problem at our club, firstly everyone knows players play better in better sides, Ebert is a classic example of this. If he was still with us I highly doubt he would be playing as he is at Port Adelaide.
But having said that I think it is pretty clear that the top sides development programs are far better than our's.
There is no way we could be that unlucky that pretty much everyone we recruit are B Grade or just average players. Yet it seems that way.
No matter who Geelong, Hawthorn, Sydney, Collingwood, Fremantle and Port put on the paddock they seem to be high class players.
Those clubs are doing something better than us and many other clubs.
Players we thought were average at Freo just 3 years ago now are very very good players under Ross Lyon and his system.

There has to be something to all this. Simpson deserves time to sort it out and happy to give him time. But in my view our coaching and development at our club has been poor for years.

 

[Arthaus]

Allot of our premium ball movers have gone backwards and we lost Kerr. The same team this year with Kerr in it and an improved output from Masten and Shuey wins us those close games we lost around the Blues game.

EDIT: Agree with our lack of intensity without the ball also, we don't seem to be able to stop the opposition from moving the ball like we did a few years ago.

yes, surprising how clean the saints were at clearing and moving the ball back into their 50..seemingly, even the bottom team can clear better than us, mark and score more efficiently than us.

we also supposedly have one of the best backlines to prevent this, but other teams get the spillover or overlap and score much quicker and cleaner than us - given we arguably have the better forward and backlines!
how is this so..we fight and scrap and blunder our way to wins..i think the difference is that opposition teams only have their opposition to compete with...whereas we have the opposition, and ourselves to compete with!? ...meaning we're our own worst enemies.

 

[rant]

There is no way we could be that unlucky that pretty much everyone we recruit are B Grade or just average players. Yet it seems that way.
No matter who Geelong, Hawthorn, Sydney, Collingwood, Fremantle and Port put on the paddock they seem to be high class players.
Those clubs are doing something better than us and many other clubs.
Players we thought were average at Freo just 3 years ago now are very very good players under Ross Lyon and his system.

There has to be something to all this. Simpson deserves time to sort it out and happy to give him time. But in my view our coaching and development at our club has been poor for years.

this!!


i would say we have more talent on our list than freo but they seem to get more out of their players. In 2011 and 2012 we were ahead of freo by some distance but since ross lyon they have improved while we have gone backwards without many changes in the list management of both teams. I cant see us being in the hunt this weekend unless we lift the intensity a lot more. If we play three rucks then might as well give freo the 4 points already.

Previously mentioned about Bennell. I think he was slightly sore and would either miss the game normally or play only one quarter. I think he played cause of how much simpson rates him. Would be a clear top 3 in best and fairest this year. Not bad for a rookie. He has a big job this week on Ballantyne.

 

[WCE1986]

Other teams have improved and we havent.

 

[Shmiddy15]

I agree. Another thing that irritates me is we are always on the receiving end of the general pushing and shoving that goes on. I know it isn't a big thing, but we seem so meek and submissive.

Was good to see the Gov show some agro when he caught Shenton holding the ball. Shame masto took it too far.

 

[Galileo9]

we lost kerr and some others got old. game has moved on.

compromised drafts left us with a lot of mid range players and not enough elite talent. therefore we are middle of the pack.