When did you know we were in trouble

[mountain roy]

A thread about the 90s and when Fitzroy fans knew we were in trouble- that is, we seriously might struggle to survive in the AFL.
For me it was when Alastair Lynch signed with Brisbane at the end of the 1993 season. We had the makings of a great team, but with Lynch going to the Bears, well that ended that. He was on the radio when the news broke (3AW?) explaining the reason why he was heading up north. The station opened up the talkback lines and Fitzroy fans were ringing in. 'How could you go?' Some were nearly crying.
Lynch going, and the impending move to the Western Oval for the following 1994 season, I thought we were in trouble then.

 

[Mobbs]

A thread about the 90s and when Fitzroy fans knew we were in trouble- that is, we seriously might struggle to survive in the AFL.
For me it was when Alastair Lynch signed with Brisbane at the end of the 1993 season. We had the makings of a great team, but with Lynch going to the Bears, well that ended that. He was on the radio when the news broke (3AW?) explaining the reason why he was heading up north. The station opened up the talkback lines and Fitzroy fans were ringing in. 'How could you go?' Some were nearly crying.
Lynch going, and the impending move to the Western Oval for the following 1994 season, I thought we were in trouble then.

Probably the same time for me too. It was crushing, and probably the biggest thing sticking in my craw ever since. In that year we also lost folks like Broderick, Gale, Jamie Elliott (the good one) I think? Lynch was a huge loss, but it was an exodus.

 

[mountain roy]

And we lost Roos, Lyon and Armstrong in 95.
You're forgetting Matty Dundas, Mobbs, who was part of the Jeff Hogg trade if memory serves.
Quite the exodus.

 

[mountain roy]

Round 2 of 1990
Fitzroy v Brisbane at Princes Park -6,800
St Kilda v West Coast at Moorabbin- 23,000
Two low drawing interstate clubs and Saints draw three times as many supporters.

I've never understood what happened to Fitzroy supporters after our 86 finals campaign where we drew great crowds against Essendon, Sydney and Hawthorn. They seemed to disappear after that.

 

[Mobbs]

And we lost Roos, Lyon and Armstrong in 95.
You're forgetting Matty Dundas, Mobbs, who was part of the Jeff Hogg trade if memory serves.
Quite the exodus.

Truth. And Dilena disappeared in there too somewhere?
Anyway re your question, post-1993 was a real bitchslap. We were looking quite dangerous throughout that season.

 

[Roylion]

I thought Fitzroy was on the up as late as 1992-93. The club actually made a profit in 1993, they'd finally got a social club that was making money through the Fitzroy Club Hotel (purchased in March 1992) and were making plans to return to the Brunswick Street Oval (just up the road from the Fitzroy Club Hotel) as a training and administration base. The club had actually gained approval from the Council in 1992 to do just that, but just couldn't find the spare $250,000 to renovate the old heritage grandstand and build a modern gymnasium over the existing community rooms. As well as that in 1992, on-field we had the makings of a very good team with the likes of Alistair Lynch, Paul Roos, Richard Osborne, Paul Broderick, Matthew Armstrong, Ross Lyon, John Blakey, Michael Gale and Jimmy Wynd. The club reached the pre-season Grand Final against Hawthorn, attracting over 50,000 people. Even Fitzroy's first pre-season match against Carlton in 1993 attracted just under 25,000, which shows that with a little bit of success and hope, a significant number of Fitzroy supporters were out there. A Fitzroy game against Essendon in May 1993 at the MCG, attracted 50,000 people.

It was the end of 1993 when I first thought we were going to perhaps struggle to stay in the competition. It became clear the AFL was actively working against us when they threatened to sue Fitzroy for $250,000 that had been paid to Fitzroy by CUB as part of a club sponsorship, which included selling CUB's product in the Fitzroy Club Hotel. CUB was the AFL's sponsor and the AFL thought they should have received the money instead of Fitzroy. This was despite the fact that CUB had been a minor sponsor of Fitzroy for over ten years previously. The AFL even threatened to reduce the dividend to other clubs by the amount Fitzroy received.

Then Lynch, Gale, Dundas and Elliott left over the 1993-1994 off-season, followed by Roos, Armstrong and Lyon at the end of the 1994 season. Even Robert Shaw - the very loyal coach and passionate Fitzroy man - left. I wonder if Lynch had re-signed with Fitzroy at the end of 1993, whether our exiting of the competition in 1996 would have happened.

 

[mountain roy]

Carl Dilena was a visionary- he left in 1990 for the kangaroos.

 

[mountain roy]

I approached Dyson at the Northcote hotel in the pokies room after the last round of the 93 season after the Melbourne win. I was verry drunk and pestered him about how much they offered to pay Lynch if we were to keep him.
I vaguely the figure Dyson mentioned was around 80 thousand a year, which was about twelve times less than what the Bears had offered him. That's if we had the 80 grand to begin with, with I doubt a bit. Don't think Lynch wanted to leave Fitzroy, but the offer was too good to pass up. A million dollars or 80,000? No brainer really.
I was so disappointed when Jamie Elliot left. Total kick in the guts that one.

 

[mountain roy]

Tony Woods played 160 games with the Magpies and Hawks after he lefft fitzroy.
sigh

 

[mountain roy]

and Peter Caven played in two premierships with Adelaide in 97 and 98.
That's a cool story.
Still remember his 100-metre torp kicking out from full back in 93 opening round against Carlton in last quarter which landed on Fitzroy's forward line and sparked our comeback to win the game.

 

[Roysforever]

Round 2 of 1990
Fitzroy v Brisbane at Princes Park -6,800
St Kilda v West Coast at Moorabbin- 23,000
Two low drawing interstate clubs and Saints draw three times as many supporters.

I've never understood what happened to Fitzroy supporters after our 86 finals campaign where we drew great crowds against Essendon, Sydney and Hawthorn. They seemed to disappear after that.

I didn't realise this. It's a very valid stat. Unfortunately the failed merger of the 1989/90 summer seemed to take some wind out of our sails on and off the field.

 

[Roysforever]

I thought Fitzroy was on the up as late as 1992-93. The club actually made a profit in 1993, they'd finally got a social club that was making money through the Fitzroy Club Hotel (purchased in March 1992) and were making plans to return to the Brunswick Street Oval (just up the road from the Fitzroy Club Hotel) as a training and administration base. The club had actually gained approval from the Council in 1992 to do just that, but just couldn't find the spare $250,000 to renovate the old heritage grandstand and build a modern gymnasium over the existing community rooms. As well as that in 1992, on-field we had the makings of a very good team with the likes of Alistair Lynch, Paul Roos, Richard Osborne, Paul Broderick, Matthew Armstrong, Ross Lyon, John Blakey, Michael Gale and Jimmy Wynd. The club reached the pre-season Grand Final against Hawthorn, attracting over 50,000 people. Even Fitzroy's first pre-season match against Carlton in 1993 attracted just under 25,000, which shows that with a little bit of success and hope, a significant number of Fitzroy supporters were out there. A Fitzroy game against Essendon in May 1993 at the MCG, attracted 50,000 people.

It was the end of 1993 when I first thought we were going to perhaps struggle to stay in the competition. It became clear the AFL was actively working against us when they threatened to sue Fitzroy for $250,000 that had been paid to Fitzroy by CUB as part of a club sponsorship, which included selling CUB's product in the Fitzroy Club Hotel. CUB was the AFL's sponsor and the AFL thought they should have received the money instead of Fitzroy. This was despite the fact that CUB had been a minor sponsor of Fitzroy for over ten years previously. The AFL even threatened to reduce the dividend to other clubs by the amount Fitzroy received.

Then Lynch, Gale, Dundas and Elliott left over the 1993-1994 off-season, followed by Roos, Armstrong and Lyon at the end of the 1994 season. Even Robert Shaw - the very loyal coach and passionate Fitzroy man - left. I wonder if Lynch had re-signed with Fitzroy at the end of 1993, whether our exiting of the competition in 1996 would have happened.

Bang on the money as always RL.

I do wonder about the flow on effect if Lynch stayed for a little longer. Other departures/trades could have at least been delayed and we might have might a finals charge in 1994. I suggest the club drafted well over the 1993/94 summer and if these players were added to the existing 1993 squad on field success during 1994 was definitely on the cards.

 

[Broken]

Round 2 of 1990
Fitzroy v Brisbane at Princes Park -6,800
St Kilda v West Coast at Moorabbin- 23,000
Two low drawing interstate clubs and Saints draw three times as many supporters.

I've never understood what happened to Fitzroy supporters after our 86 finals campaign where we drew great crowds against Essendon, Sydney and Hawthorn. They seemed to disappear after that.

I was going to put this down to Brisbane being a low drawing crowd in general, but the Saints drew 14000 against the Bears 2 months later.

I reckon moving from the Junction Oval to Collingwood, then Carlton, made me feel we were losing a bit of who we were.

But I agree the players we lost between 92 and 94 felt like a combination of rats fleeing a sinking ship and self sabotage.

 

[Mr Ripper]

Yeah, Lynch's departure coupled with the move to Footscray (better deal, but a yuck joint) put the writing on the wall for me. Mind you, I was a supporter of the relocation to QLD post '86. 1992/93 gave us hope we might pull through, but town hall got us in the end.

 

[Roysforever]

I also think that Pert's departure from the club had implications with the decision making of the playing group impacted. Pert was Fitzroy through and through. The manner in which he was treated whilst recovering from significant injury demonstrated that no one was immune to being adversely treated. I'm sure senior players, including Lynch, considered his situation when weighing up potential moves.

 

[MisterMarcus]

Sorry for intruding, but I was looking over your 1996 team and noting how many players went on to at least some sort of future career at other clubs:

Boyd, Johnson, Paxman, Barker, Molloy, Pike, Primus, Bamford, Chandler, Dent, Warfe, Cook, Clayton, etc

Not all of them were superstars by any means, but they at least held their own for several seasons in 'better' sides. That's like 60-70% of a team that were judged good enough by other clubs to be AFL standard for them.

I do wonder if you'd just been allowed to hang on for a few more years, keep the above guys together, plus a few more kids coming through.....what might have been.

 

[Roylion]

Sorry for intruding, but I was looking over your 1996 team and noting how many players went on to at least some sort of future career at other clubs:

Boyd, Johnson, Paxman, Barker, Molloy, Pike, Primus, Bamford, Chandler, Dent, Warfe, Cook, Clayton, etc

Not all of them were superstars by any means, but they at least held their own for several seasons in 'better' sides. That's like 60-70% of a team that were judged good enough by other clubs to be AFL standard for them.

The full list of 1996 Fitzroy players that ended up at other clubs was:

Brisbane: (8) Brad Boyd, John Barker, Simon Hawking, Nick Carter, Scott Bamford, Shane Clayton, Chris Johnson, Jarrod Molloy
Richmond: (3) Jason Baldwin, Brent Frewen, Matthew Manfield
Collingwood: (2) Brad Cassidy, Marty Warry,
North Melbourne: (3) Brett Chandler, Anthony Mellington, Martin Pike,
St Kilda: (1) Brett Cook,
Hawthorn: (2) Nigel Credlin, Robert McMahon,
West Coast: (1) Trent Cummings,
Western Bulldogs: (1) Matthew Dent
Port Adelaide: (4) Danny Morton, Stephen Paxman, Matthew Primus, John Rombotis
Sydney: (1) Rowan Warfe

I do wonder if you'd just been allowed to hang on for a few more years, keep the above guys together, plus a few more kids coming through.....what might have been.

Yep.

Fitzroy would have never sought a merger if they could have secured an extra $1 million in funding - $0.5 million to return to the Brunswick Street Oval and upgrade the faciliites (agreed deal already successfully negotiated with the existing Fitzroy local council) and $0.5 million to attract players to make the club more competitive onfield. Nauru had agreed to lend a further $500,000 but when the government of Nauru was changed at the end of November 1995, the offer was withdrawn.

Fitzroy was $2.7 million in debt, of which $1.25 million was to one secured creditor. (Nauru). The Fitzroy debt of $1.25 million to the Nauru Insurance Company wasn't due to be paid back until 2001 and Fitzroy were meeting the repayments.

So $1 million was the requirement to keep Fitzroy in the competition and yet the same year the AFL was prepared to shell out $12 million for two mergers (North-Fitzroy and Melb/Haw).

With more income they could have retained the best from their existing 1995-1996 list and started rebuilding their list through the draft (Michael Gardiner, Travis Johnstone - grandson of Fitzroy champ Norm), with also priority picks in 1997 and 1998 (Chris Heffernan, Luke Power) and trading from other clubs. (Picks #1 and #2 in the 1996 and 1997 drafts)

Fitzroy's 1998 best side might have looked something like:

B: Chris Johnson, Stephen Paxman, Rowan Warfe
HB: Martin Pike, Mark Zanotti, John Barker
C: Travis Johnstone (1997 #1 pick), Simon Atkins, Scott Bamford
HF: Shane Clayton, Jarrod Molloy, John Rombotis,
F: Simon Hawking, Anthony Mellington, Darren Whieldon
R: Matthew Primus, Brad Boyd, Chris Heffernan / Rory Hilton (1996 priority pick)
I: Michael Gardiner (1996 #1 pick), Luke Power (1997 priority pick), Brett Chandler, John McCarthy,

Em: Jason Baldwin, Jim Wynd,

 

[3KZ is Football]

When Paul Roos left.

 

[FitzroyPete]

1986, when Ross Oakley was appointed chairman and CEO of the VFL.