Where are we at?

[Pie_fan92]

After another hard fought clash with the hawks, we come off second best again. While we are always pushing s*** up hill against them it doesn't help when the umpires crucify us like they did today. But now that the dust has settled I'm left here thinking where exactly are we as a side in terms of our next tilt at a flag. My question to my fellow pies supporters is where are we at and what do we have to do in order to take that next step and push for that flag we all dream about.

Mods please merge thread if need be. Cheers.

 

[TradeDraft]

about where we where last season. a 5-10 Side that is okay side but nothing elite yet.

We are probably 2 years away from having a Run at the Flag.

Just want to make Finals and Win the Elimination Final so we showed some Progress

 

[Pie_fan92]

about where we where last season. a 5-10 Side that is okay side but nothing elite yet.

We are probably 2 years away from having a Run at the Flag.

Just want to make Finals and Win the Elimination Final so we showed some Progress

Yeah 2 years sounds about right, my biggest fear is that we might peak and collide at the same time as the expansion clubs and it will 02/03 all over again. Surely with another pre season under our belts and hopefully no injuries we could push for top 4 next year. I think we need to chase a couple of big fish in the off season to help our cause as we'llwe'll

 

[TradeDraft]

Yeah 2 years sounds about right, my biggest fear is that we might peak and collide at the same time as the expansion clubs and it will 02/03 all over again. Surely with another pre season under our belts and hopefully no injuries we could push for top 4 next year. I think we need to chase a couple of big fish in the off season to help our cause as we'llwe'll

Suns be a worry but Giants are still a fair way off at the moment

 

[mike123]

We are at a rebuilding stage, which is pretty bad considering a side was very young when we won our premiership.

 

[TheFreshBanana]

Good thread. Reckon the game against the Hawks has made this question quite pertinent.

I think we're probably a 5-6 positioned side. We're not ready to start claiming for the premiership, even though that was my expectation only until a couple of weeks ago, but our list is young enough that we should feel positive about it.

I think it's quite clear that players like Dwyer, Thomas, Adams, Scharenberg and Freeman hold the key to our success. If these fringe players can really step up, it will inevitably raise the calibre of our side.

I think we'll unfortunately see Ball, Swan and Maxwell retired, which will hurt immensely, but Ball is replacable, Maxwell will hurt but Langdon softens the blow, and Swan looks extremely cooked at this point.

There are other factors too, I think White will also play an important role for us. We look much better with him playing as the 2nd ruck/fwd and the side looks better with a first ruckman and a ruck cum forward. The development of both Grundy and Witts will hold us in great stead, and their development, Grundy last season and Witts this season, has been impressive.

This season we'll have gotten an important 20 or so games into a young but impressive defensive line in Keeffe, Frost, Langdon and Williams, which will help in the future.

 

[TradeDraft]

We are at a rebuilding stage, which is pretty bad considering a side was very young when we won our premiership.

Though we did have some very old players on the list like:

• L Brown
• Fraser
• Lockyer
• Presti
• Jolly
• L Davis
• Johnson
• Didak

 

[Pie_fan92]

I think we'll unfortunately see Ball, Swan and Maxwell retired, which will hurt immensely, but Ball is replacable, Maxwell will hurt but Langdon softens the blow, and Swan looked extremely cooked at this point.

There are other factors too, I think White will also play an important role for us. We look much better with him playing as the 2nd ruck/fwd and the side looks better with a first ruckman and a ruck cum forward. The development of both Grundy and Witts will hold us in great stead, and their development, Grundy last season and Witts this season, has been impressive.

This season we'll have gotten an important 20 or so games into a young but impressive defensive line in Keeffe, Frost, Langdon and Williams, which will help in the future.

Yeah swanny has been below par for most of this season, and I hate to say (I hope I am wrong) but I think he is done.

I think Adams will cover the hole that ball has left quite well. I know he cops a lot of criticism here but I reckon we should back him for the rest of the season. I see more potential in him then Thomas. In saying that I do rate Thomas as a good young player and is not afraid to put his body on the line.

As for white, he has been very disappointing to say the least. However we should persist with him and see how he goes as the third tall when Reid comes back.

Our back line looks set for a while with Keefe, frost, Langdon and Williams are all promising players. It makes me ponder what to do with Nathan brown, good player but injuries have gotten the better of him unfortunately.

 

[Pie_fan92]

Though we did have some very old players on the list like:

• L Brown
• Fraser
• Lockyer
• Presti
• Jolly
• L Davis
• Johnson
• Didak

Add medhurt as well. I just wish Lockyer, presti and Fraser stuck around for another year, we could of used them in the 2011 gf to cover the injured players

 

[TradeDraft]

Yeah swanny has been below par for most of this season, and I hate to say (I hope I am wrong) but I think he is done.

I think Adams will cover the hole that ball has left quite well. I know he cops a lot of criticism here but I reckon we should back him for the rest of the season. I see more potential in him then Thomas. In saying that I do rate Thomas as a good young player and is not afraid to put his body on the line..

Agree Adams has done very well. Hard as an old boot and try’s his best to get us the ball in Contested Situations. He getting better each game

 

[ClaytonM]

We are at a rebuilding stage, which is pretty bad considering a side was very young when we won our premiership.

It was young but not that good. The assumption that a young side will keep getting better when in reality many of those younger players are not and we're never going to become elite. Blair, Caff, Dawes, Wellingham for a start. Once the game plan was unpicked by the competition we had to rebuild to match new elite. That young list was not as good as Hawthorn's as history has shown.

 

[Pie_fan92]

It was young but not that good. The assumption that a young side will keep getting better when in reality many of those younger players are not and we're never going to become elite. Blair, Caff, Dawes, Wellingham for a start. Once the game plan was unpicked by the competition we had to rebuild to match new elite. That young list was not as good as Hawthorn's as history has shown.

Being relatively injury free for most of the year helped. But how far we have fallen since still pisses me off to this day

 

[TradeDraft]

Being relatively injury free for most of the year helped. But how far we have fallen since still pisses me off to this day

Blame that on MM and The Shit he did late in the Season

 

[Gone Critical]

It was young but not that good. The assumption that a young side will keep getting better when in reality many of those younger players are not and we're never going to become elite. Blair, Caff, Dawes, Wellingham for a start. Once the game plan was unpicked by the competition we had to rebuild to match new elite. That young list was not as good as Hawthorn's as history has shown.

Disagree thought the list of 2010-11 was the best I have ever seen at Collingwood. People underestimate how difficult it is to put together such a list. Events have conspired against us a bit but IMHO 1 flag from that group is probably not enough. With an 18 team comp that is even it may be a long time before we have a similar group again.

Agree the Hawks list and Geelongs were also great lists through the same time.

 

[TradeDraft]

Disagree thought the list of 2010-11 was the best I have ever seen at Collingwood. People underestimate how difficult it is to put together such a list. Events have conspired against us a bit but IMHO 1 flag from that group is probably not enough. With an 18 team comp that is even it may be a long time before we have a similar group again.

Agree the Hawks list and Geelongs were also great lists through the same time.

Big Thing in 2010 that nearly everyone was in Amazing Form and not many if any Passangers

 

[ClaytonM]

Disagree thought the list of 2010-11 was the best I have ever seen at Collingwood. People underestimate how difficult it is to put together such a list. Events have conspired against us a bit but IMHO 1 flag from that group is probably not enough. With an 18 team comp that is even it may be a long time before we have a similar group again.

Agree the Hawks list and Geelongs were also great lists through the same time.

I on the other hand don't think it was that good. It was great at pressure but let's face it was low on skill. Once teams overcome our game plan our lack of elite skills across the park has seen us drop behind the very best.

 

[Pie_fan92]

Disagree thought the list of 2010-11 was the best I have ever seen at Collingwood. People underestimate how difficult it is to put together such a list. Events have conspired against us a bit but IMHO 1 flag from that group is probably not enough. With an 18 team comp that is even it may be a long time before we have a similar group again.

Agree the Hawks list and Geelongs were also great lists through the same time.

Yeah agree with this. Injuries screwed any hope of us going back to back. I just wish the veterans (obree, Fraser, presti etc) hung around for at least another year. We sure as shit could of used them in 2011 (presti on Hawkins anyone?) but I understand it's a bit much to ask for 30+ year olds.

 

[Pie_fan92]

I on the other hand don't think it was that good. It was great at pressure but let's face it was low on skill. Once teams overcome our game plan our lack of elite skills across the park has seen us drop behind the very best.

While I do think our skills were a weakness, we gave the cats, one of the best skilled teams, one hell of a fight in the 11 gf.

 

[ClaytonM]

While I do think our skills were a weakness, we gave the cats, one of the best skilled teams, one hell of a fight in the 11 gf.

Don't get wrong, loved watching them play, but the team was not destined to win multiple flags like some people assumed just because we were young.

 

[TradeDraft]

Don't get wrong, loved watching them play, but the team was not destined to win multiple flags like some people assumed just because we were young.

Agree that Skills where found out once our Gameplan was Solved

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

Agree that Skills where found out once our Gameplan was Solved

Exactly TD. We have suffered because Buckley has tried to straighten us up. He had to do it because the boundary line plan is reliant on winning stoppages. We have to hit targets rather than kick the ball to space and our average skills have been on show for the whole season.

 

[ClaytonM]

Agree that Skills where found out once our Gameplan was Solved

We will not challenge for the flag until we address two major issues, lack of pace and foot skills. Unfortunately both of those are difficult to address through training. You are either quick or you are not, and while you can improve your kicking through training most players only improve marginally.

Therefore we are relying on Sharon, Freeman and Broomhead to help address these issues. If they don't, along with Seedsman and a few of the other younger brigade we will not be able to compete with the two expansion clubs which have skill and speed to burn.

 

[TradeDraft]

Exactly TD. We have suffered because Buckley has tried to straighten us up. He had to do it because the boundary line plan is reliant on winning stoppages. We have to hit targets rather than kick the ball to space and our average skills have been on show for the whole season.

So we are still about Half-Way with the Re-Build?

 

[Pie_fan92]

We will not challenge for the flag until we address two major issues, lack of pace and foot skills. Unfortunately both of those are difficult to address through training. You are either quick or you are not, and while you can improve your kicking through training most players only improve marginally.

Therefore we are relying on Sharon, Freeman and Broomhead to help address these issues. If they don't, along with Seedsman and a few of the other younger brigade we will not be able to compete with the two expansion clubs which have skill and speed to burn.

Agree with most of this, I think that skills are more important than pace. Look at port for example, not the fastest team getting around but they just hit targets all day and make you pay when you miss a target.

 

[Big Bryza]

The great thing about footy is you can improve quickly. We need to get as many games into Witts, Grundy, Langdon, Seedsman, Williams, Adams, Broomhead, Kennedy, Martin, and then Scharenberg and Freeman when ready. It sucks but today was again a reality check of where we are at.

On another note, I'll celebrate our next victory over Hawthorn likes it's a premiership. Sick of losing to those campaigners.

Also, we need to get another key forward. Let's get Jack Rieowldt. He's a gun and we need to give Trav a bloody chop out.