Where do they rank?

[Russ74]

I know this is a sure fire argument starter and yes, we've al heard how it's hard to rate different era's but racing's all about opinions. Where does Miss Andretti sit amongst modern day sprinters. Where does Miss Finland rate against 3yo fillies and 3yo's in general and wherer does Gold Edition sit amongst 3 yo sprinters?

My opinions.

Miss Andretti has proven to be a top class sprinter. I feel at the moment she is below Takeover Target, Manikato, Placid Ark, and Schillaci.

Miss Finland is only below Sunline as a 3 yo filly. Red Anchor and Octagonal produced stunning 3yo seasons that shade Miss Finland but her record is excellent against 3yo's.

Gold Edition is a gun filly who's run on saturday was very good. I query the opposition she's beaten but you can only beat what you're up against. She is tough and honest and has an amazingly high cruising speed. She did however have a big weight pull on MA and was beaten. Jury still out a bit on where she rates in terms of ranking. Just under Alinghi in my opinion at the moment.

Thoughts? and be nice!

 

[sethlad]

Miss Andretti has proven to be a top class sprinter. I feel at the moment she is below Takeover Target, Manikato, Placid Ark, and Schillaci.
Completely agree,she's a star & may well prove to be the best sprinting mare we've seen but she's got a way to go to be in the class of those.
People forget how good Schillaci was,Triple Crown of Sprinters at 3 in his 1st 5 runs,absolutely unheard of.Then won a Galaxy at 3 with 57kg.Incredible.

Miss Finland is only below Sunline as a 3 yo filly. Red Anchor and Octagonal produced stunning 3yo seasons that shade Miss Finland but her record is excellent against 3yo's.
People know my opinion but Surround would have carried her,no disgrace but at the minute she's gotta be below Sunline who won a Doncaster at 3 carrying WFA.

Gold Edition,I love her but I dont have a definitive opinion yet.The fact she got so close to MA,who is so highly regarded shows she's right up there.

seth

 

[Im The Gun]

Miss Andretti has proven to be a top class sprinter. I feel at the moment she is below Takeover Target, Manikato, Placid Ark, and Schillaci.
Completely agree,she's a star & may well prove to be the best sprinting mare we've seen but she's got a way to go to be in the class of those.
People forget how good Schillaci was,Triple Crown of Sprinters at 3 in his 1st 5 runs,absolutely unheard of.Then won a Galaxy at 3 with 57kg.Incredible.

Miss Finland is only below Sunline as a 3 yo filly. Red Anchor and Octagonal produced stunning 3yo seasons that shade Miss Finland but her record is excellent against 3yo's.
People know my opinion but Surround would have carried her,no disgrace but at the minute she's gotta be below Sunline who won a Doncaster at 3 carrying WFA.

Gold Edition,I love her but I dont have a definitive opinion yet.The fact she got so close to MA,who is so highly regarded shows she's right up there.

seth

Miss Finland is the best 3 year old I've seen, I still think she would have won the cox plate by 2 if that kiwi joke had a map. The only thing hanging on her head is she hasn't won in open class, but she's done everything asked of her so far.

As for Miss A she's miles behind Manikato, but so is everything else.

No one has really talked about her times this season, 3 starts this year, 3 track records 2 at WFA (something you don't see often) the other with a record weight for a winner in a race that is the best handicap under the mile in the world.

Gold Edition is better than what i thought.

 

[Almost Famous]

You havnt been following racing very long if Miss Finland is the best 3yo youve seen. Are you new to the game? Fair enough if you are because she is pretty good. The assertion that she would have won the Cox Plate is a myth though. As you follow racing for longer you'll come to realise that.


Miss Andretti is very good for sure but there have been many better than her over the years. Schillaci has twice the record she does and Manikato had to be seen to be believed. Placid Ark was much better too.



Gold Edition is a very very good sprinter. To sit outside the leader like that all the way, 1st time around Caulfield was a brilliant effort. We saw where the other leader finished. She is better down the Flemington straight though and would have won the race had it been there.

 

[Ron]

You havnt been following racing very long if Miss Finland is the best 3yo youve seen. Are you new to the game? Fair enough if you are because she is pretty good. The assertion that she would have won the Cox Plate is a myth though. As you follow racing for longer you'll come to realise that.

I reckon she will win it this year.
Fair enough a few other horses will be in contention, including ES, but i reckon she may be good enough to do it.
Still not in Sunlines class, not even close atm.

Miss Andretti is very good for sure but there have been many better than her over the years. Schillaci has twice the record she does and Manikato had to be seen to be believed. Placid Ark was much better too.

Probably the form horse in the country atm, and continues to impress me.
But as has been said, plenty better have come before.

Gold Edition is a very very good sprinter. To sit outside the leader like that all the way, 1st time around Caulfield was a brilliant effort. We saw where the other leader finished. She is better down the Flemington straight though and would have won the race had it been there.

Don't believe so.
Miss Andretti started in the car park and ran three wide for the whole race and still won at the end.
At Flemington or on the friggin moon MA would beat Gold Edition every day of the week.


We do have plenty of good horses atm, but i still yearn for another Sunline and Northerly duo to go around.

 

[Almost Famous]

Fair comments Ron, you make some good points. We will have to disagree about Gold Edition though. She is a couple of lengths better down the straight and I think Miss Andretti isnt quite as good. Would be a great race though.

 

[tige19]

Deadset what do things (horses) have to do these days to be rated amongst the best crop of all time. Miss Andretti has won every group 1 sprinting even available this season, she has smashed track records, she has carried weight far beyound what many thought was possible and she has done this all quite easily. Bar Manikato, Miss Andretti along with Takeover Target have been our best sprinters since. Allinghi and Schillaci are on an even plank.

As far as Miss Finland, I doubt we will ever see a 3 year old in the same ilk as Sunline for quite sometime, out and out freak, the way it used to toy with its rivals used to make 1 laugh, was just a class above anything going around.

Gold Edition im not sold on, had a charmed run in the Newmarket and dictated from up front, MA sat 3 and 4 wide had no cover and was shouldering the grandstand and still disposed of her. Gold Edition is a star but not in the ilk of MA.

 

[sethlad]

Freedman rates MA with Schillaci so youve gotta believe that.
Once again Markdel transforms a very good horse into a star.

Allinghi,not in the same race.I like to see them do it over several seasons.
Brilliant 2yo,very good 3yo IMO.

seth

 

[Im The Gun]

Deadset what do things (horses) have to do these days to be rated amongst the best crop of all time. Miss Andretti has won every group 1 sprinting even available this season, she has smashed track records, she has carried weight far beyound what many thought was possible and she has done this all quite easily. Bar Manikato, Miss Andretti along with Takeover Target have been our best sprinters since. Allinghi and Schillaci are on an even plank.

Whats this thing about Allingi?

she was a good printer but the only time she won in open class she was given the race on weight.

Remember she was beaten at WFA at least 3 times, twice the year she won the newmarket by fastnet rock.

As for Sunline, Grand Archway won 3 year old filly their 3 year old year, 2 oaks wins, WFA wins and barring a ******** trainer would have gone on with it the next season.

 

[Angus1]

Pretty lean time for stars at the moment but I reckon Miss Andretti is one.
She's right up there with Schillachi but lets not get carried away and bring Manikato into it. Manikato is one of the best ever.

Miss Finland is certainly shaping up as the real deal and could very well prove it. Cox Plate is a real possibility but if she can get close to Sunline she will be doing pretty well. Sunline is about as good a mare Ive seen.
When you look at it who does she have to beat in the Cox Plate? El Segundo??? Hell I wont be backing him again for a while. Miss Finland looks set to rule and the opposition may come from another 3 year old (at the moment) in Efficient.
Open age horses aren't exactly shining at the moment.


EDIT. Just read the first thread where Red Anchor and Octagonal were mentioned.
Well I'm not sure if anything needs to be said.
It doesn't really but Octagonal beat Mahogany in a Cox plate as a 3 year old. Octagonal ran him down.
Mahogany would smash these horses racing today.
Miss Finland is a good horse racing today but lets not get too carried away.

 

[Russ74]

Deadset what do things (horses) have to do these days to be rated amongst the best crop of all time. Miss Andretti has won every group 1 sprinting even available this season, she has smashed track records, she has carried weight far beyound what many thought was possible and she has done this all quite easily. Bar Manikato, Miss Andretti along with Takeover Target have been our best sprinters since. Allinghi and Schillaci are on an even plank.

As far as Miss Finland, I doubt we will ever see a 3 year old in the same ilk as Sunline for quite sometime, out and out freak, the way it used to toy with its rivals used to make 1 laugh, was just a class above anything going around.

Gold Edition im not sold on, had a charmed run in the Newmarket and dictated from up front, MA sat 3 and 4 wide had no cover and was shouldering the grandstand and still disposed of her. Gold Edition is a star but not in the ilk of MA.

As I said in the first post- opinion make racing. I do however like to see justification for that opinion. I actually agree with a lot you posted. But to state that Alinghi is on an even par with Scillachi is staggering (just my opinion). Scillachi is at least on par with Manikato in my opinion and as a 3 year old was a dead set freak. He won the triple crown in his first 5 starts! (Lightning, Oakleigh, Newmarket). We will never see that again. Sunline you are correct on. Probably right on Gold Edition- Hard to make a definite opinion on I reckon.
I know Freedman rates Miss A on the level with Scillachi. He'd know better obviously but thats a big call. Takeover has done what he's done here and overseas- Credit where its due. If Miss A does the job overseas then I'll rate her with him. Takeover was breathtaking in Japan.

 

[Almost Famous]

Schillaci has twice the record of Miss Andretti and about four times the record of Alinghi. Cant see how anyone could possibly put Miss Anretti above Schillaci and Alinghi on a par with him.

Im The Gun,
I see you have done some research on 3yo fillies since you said Miss Finland was the best you had seen. Grand Archway was a great filly you are correct. She would have had Miss Finland for breakfast.

 

[Im The Gun]

Schillaci has twice the record of Miss Andretti and about four times the record of Alinghi. Cant see how anyone could possibly put Miss Anretti above Schillaci and Alinghi on a par with him.

Im The Gun,
I see you have done some research on 3yo fillies since you said Miss Finland was the best you had seen. Grand Archway was a great filly you are correct. She would have had Miss Finland for breakfast.

I didn't have to do a single second of research I remember Grand Aarchway well, I worked at Rogies and remembered it being lame after almost every hit out.

Miss Finland up to 1600 would beat GA on any track, at 1600 and above GA would beat Finland.

 

[Almost Famous]

What did you do when you worked for Rogerson? What was his stable like? Someone once told me that there was quite a bit of animal cruelty going on there. Mainly from the stable hands I think. Is that right?

 

[Im The Gun]

What did you do when you worked for Rogerson? What was his stable like? Someone once told me that there was quite a bit of animal cruelty going on there. Mainly from the stable hands I think. Is that right?

as for amimal cruelty i have no idea what you're talking about and once again you're misinformed. I never saw anything going on there about from a few geldings and what happened to Grand Archway.

If you can prove that something else went on, report it to Racing Victoria &/or the Police.

 

[Almost Famous]

I didnt say I could prove anything. All I said was that someone told me a while ago that some of the stablehands were being cruel. They told me a few of the stablehands used to try to beat up the horses sometimes. I dont know, it sounds pretty far fetched I suppose.

 

[tige19]

As I said in the first post- opinion make racing. I do however like to see justification for that opinion. I actually agree with a lot you posted. But to state that Alinghi is on an even par with Scillachi is staggering (just my opinion). Scillachi is at least on par with Manikato in my opinion and as a 3 year old was a dead set freak. He won the triple crown in his first 5 starts! (Lightning, Oakleigh, Newmarket). We will never see that again. Sunline you are correct on. Probably right on Gold Edition- Hard to make a definite opinion on I reckon.
I know Freedman rates Miss A on the level with Scillachi. He'd know better obviously but thats a big call. Takeover has done what he's done here and overseas- Credit where its due. If Miss A does the job overseas then I'll rate her with him. Takeover was breathtaking in Japan.

I suppose we where robbed of seeing Alinghi perfrom over a longer period and she was taken overseas, I mean we only got what 2 season at best from her?. She won 10 or so races in Australia and over 3mill in winnings and her wins where just so dominant, her Newmarket win in 2004?? (dont quote me i havent done any research) was just outstanding.

I suppose its hard to really hard to knock her and its really hard to have her on par with Schillaci as she was taken to the U.S, anyhow I give her the benefit of the doubt and would like to think if she stayed here and raced on her winnings would have gone to 5mill+ and added a few more G1s.

 

[Russ74]

I suppose we where robbed of seeing Alinghi perfrom over a longer period and she was taken overseas, I mean we only got what 2 season at best from her?. She won 10 or so races in Australia and over 3mill in winnings and her wins where just so dominant, her Newmarket win in 2004?? (dont quote me i havent done any research) was just outstanding.

I suppose its hard to really hard to knock her and its really hard to have her on par with Schillaci as she was taken to the U.S, anyhow I give her the benefit of the doubt and would like to think if she stayed here and raced on her winnings would have gone to 5mill+ and added a few more G1s.

Fair call mate. While we're on the subject of what might have been- Do you guys recall Hawkesy's Unworldly. A Quest For Fame filly out of the Danehill mare Spirit? Hawkes still doesn't talk about her he is that upset. She broke down and was detroyed at trackwork. I have heard respected people close to the Hawkes camp say that John Hawkes thought she was going to be at least as good as anything he's had before or since. There would be a few others out there too.

 

[Almost Famous]

Unworldly could have been anything.