Who is the "General" of our defence?

[spenze]

When I have been watching the last few weeks, even when winning, we have leaked too many goals. Last night was hard to watch as our defence just fell apart under the deluge of our midfield getting taken, roughly, over a kitchen counter.

The back 6 wasn't a team, it was a bunch of individuals or at best small sub groups of individuals but looking at it, I wondered who was the leader of the back 6?

Who keeps the defence in line, barking instructions, telling players where they should be?

All the good teams have them, some have more than one, working together to make sure the defence holds strong

Brisbane has Andrews and for the dirty sniping Zorko

Hawks have Sicily

GWS have Taylor and Whitfield

Collingwood have Darcy and Maynard

Essendon don't

but who is down back being our defensive leader?

We don't have one because we have the wrong mix in our back 6. There isn't one person in our leadership team who is in our D 6 and probably with good reason at the moment. If you had to put your finger on it, the answer is going to be Josh Worrel, he is the most likely but he has only played 34 games of AFL. We could fast track his leadership qualities but nothing substitutes games played for being situationally aware and lets face it, he has enough on his plate learning without directing others. Once again, Nicks love of experience and continuity bites us in the arse, instead of putting a clearly injured Doedee on the park, he could have developed another 15-30 games into Josh.

It definitely can't be Hinge, he was dropped from the leadership group and whilst he is a handy soldier at battle, his brain fades won't inspire the troops. Max will come along in time too, hopefully but once again less than 50 games and only 21, he may still be a couple or more years away from commanding a unit whilst he is still developing his game.

This then comes to where our mix is wrong, we need an experienced player in our back 6 with leadership qualities. Putting Laird in our D 50 is a problem, he has the experience we are screaming for, 250 games but zero leadership qualities and when something goes wrong, he has shown he is only too willing to throw a team mate under the bus than protect him. If we had other experience in there it might work with Laird, if we overlook the loopy kicks, the kicks into the man on the mark etc but we need an experienced player in the back 6 to help lead our defence.

With the inexperience of our backline Worrel (34) Max (49) Keane (35) Milera ( 104) Laird ( 100 too many) Nanks (25) Hinge (70) these guys need help but the two guys with over 100 games are the two you would think wouldn't make eye contact whilst talking to you. I believe the Crows need to bite the bullet with our greater depth and move the captain back to help shore up the leaking ship that is our D 50. He has the experience that our D50 is wanting, a good mark and kick and the leadership qualities. He won't be as demonstrative as say a Sicily but more a Taylor or Andrews type who keeps the others in line.

Until we fix this up we will be the team screaming "mathematical chance" from round 18 onwards.

TL/DR? Just sent the Crows some stock tips, 40% ROI

 

[CrowToon]

Jordan Dawson sadly when he goes back for the last 5 mins of a qtr. Could be Murray if he ever stayed fit.

Worrell is demonstrative enough I suppose if his outburst last night at Hinge (justifiably) was anything to go by.

 

[Geoffa32]

Michalanney.

But the issue is Keane's oafish attempts when things go wrong.

 

[spenze]

Jordan Dawson sadly when he goes back for the last 5 mins of a qtr. Could be Murray if he ever stayed fit.

Worrell is demonstrative enough I suppose if his outburst last night at Hinge (justifiably) was anything to go by.

Michalanney.

But the issue is Keane's oafish attempts when things go wrong.

In time both of those guys will be the man but that may be a couple of more years for both, especially Max, we need to be looking at this now to put the breaks the opposition.

As for Keane, hopefully last night shows he isn't the right player to be the main man, when he has a licence to roam he can be destructive but if the opposition hold him accountable he is out of his depth.

 

[skam85]

I'd say Worrell but at the moment the General is General Mediocrity

 

[Geoffa32]

I see the core of our next genuine Premiership tilt being

Michalanney
Worrell
Murray
Nankervis
Sog
Rachele
Draper
RT
Curtin
Fog
Rankine

We won't be genuine contenders untill these guys are 50 to 120 games unto their careers.
By this time, Michalanney will be pushing to be the Captain.

We won't be truly pushing for a flag till 2027.

 

[DJ75]

When I have been watching the last few weeks, even when winning, we have leaked too many goals. Last night was hard to watch as our defence just fell apart under the deluge of our midfield getting taken, roughly, over a kitchen counter.

The back 6 wasn't a team, it was a bunch of individuals or at best small sub groups of individuals but looking at it, I wondered who was the leader of the back 6?

Who keeps the defence in line, barking instructions, telling players where they should be?

All the good teams have them, some have more than one, working together to make sure the defence holds strong

Brisbane has Andrews and for the dirty sniping Zorko

Hawks have Sicily

GWS have Taylor and Whitfield

Collingwood have Darcy and Maynard

Essendon don't

but who is down back being our defensive leader?

We don't have one because we have the wrong mix in our back 6. There isn't one person in our leadership team who is in our D 6 and probably with good reason at the moment. If you had to put your finger on it, the answer is going to be Josh Worrel, he is the most likely but he has only played 34 games of AFL. We could fast track his leadership qualities but nothing substitutes games played for being situationally aware and lets face it, he has enough on his plate learning without directing others. Once again, Nicks love of experience and continuity bites us in the arse, instead of putting a clearly injured Doedee on the park, he could have developed another 15-30 games into Josh.

It definitely can't be Hinge, he was dropped from the leadership group and whilst he is a handy soldier at battle, his brain fades won't inspire the troops. Max will come along in time too, hopefully but once again less than 50 games and only 21, he may still be a couple or more years away from commanding a unit whilst he is still developing his game.

This then comes to where our mix is wrong, we need an experienced player in our back 6 with leadership qualities. Putting Laird in our D 50 is a problem, he has the experience we are screaming for, 250 games but zero leadership qualities and when something goes wrong, he has shown he is only too willing to throw a team mate under the bus than protect him. If we had other experience in there it might work with Laird, if we overlook the loopy kicks, the kicks into the man on the mark etc but we need an experienced player in the back 6 to help lead our defence.

With the inexperience of our backline Worrel (34) Max (49) Keane (35) Milera ( 104) Laird ( 100 too many) Nanks (25) Hinge (70) these guys need help but the two guys with over 100 games are the two you would think wouldn't make eye contact whilst talking to you. I believe the Crows need to bite the bullet with our greater depth and move the captain back to help shore up the leaking ship that is our D 50. He has the experience that our D50 is wanting, a good mark and kick and the leadership qualities. He won't be as demonstrative as say a Sicily but more a Taylor or Andrews type who keeps the others in line.

Until we fix this up we will be the team screaming "mathematical chance" from round 18 onwards.

TL/DR? Just sent the Crows some stock tips, 40% ROI

You have hit the nail on the head here. It's a significant issue.
I suspect the coaches see it and that's why they wanted Miler and Laird there. Unfortunately, our coaches think that games played means leadership.
It doesn't.
Milera isn't a vocal leader. Never will be.
Laird has played 250 games and never been part of the leadership group. Why? Because he's a self centred player focussed on himself (and abusing temmates when they don't give him the ball).

We are desperately lacking strong leadership in the back 6. Another reason why I've been screaming that we should play Dawson at half back for most of the game.
Even then, we still need that clear vocal leader.

 

[spenze]

You have hit the nail on the head here. It's a significant issue.
I suspect the coaches see it and that's why they wanted Miler and Laird there. Unfortunately, our coaches think that games played means leadership.
It doesn't.
Milera isn't a vocal leader. Never will be.
Laird has played 250 games and never been part of the leadership group. Why? Because he's a self centred player focussed on himself (and abusing temmates when they don't give him the ball).

We are desperately lacking strong leadership in the back 6. Another reason why I've been screaming that we should play Dawson at half back for most of the game.
Even then, we still need that clear vocal leader.

Yeah he doesn't strike me as a dominant leader...and that is alright if his VC is but our leadership group is somewhat lacking and has been since Tex stood down

 

[DJ75]

As much as he's a flog, someone like Steven May

1

Steven May

Age

33

Ht

193cm

Wt

101kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.7

4star

K

10.5

4star

HB

4.2

3star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.5

3star

MG

307.3

4star

D

15.5

4star

K

12.1

5star

HB

3.4

2star

M

3.4

3star

T

0.5

1star

MG

378.4

5star

D

12.4

4star

K

8.8

4star

HB

3.6

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

1.8

4star

would be useful.

 

[dplggr47]

You have hit the nail on the head here. It's a significant issue.
I suspect the coaches see it and that's why they wanted Miler and Laird there. Unfortunately, our coaches think that games played means leadership.
It doesn't.
Milera isn't a vocal leader. Never will be.
Laird has played 250 games and never been part of the leadership group. Why? Because he's a self centred player focussed on himself (and abusing temmates when they don't give him the ball).

We are desperately lacking strong leadership in the back 6. Another reason why I've been screaming that we should play Dawson at half back for most of the game.
Even then, we still need that clear vocal leader.

So true. Murray is a leader down back and is a couple weeks away. Michalanney is still young. Worrell is the next leader choice.

If Dawson went to half back, would this push Laird back into the midfield though?

 

[spenze]

So true. Murray is a leader down back and is a couple weeks away. Michalanney is still young. Worrell is the next leader choice.

If Dawson went to half back, would this push Laird back into the midfield though?

Of the SANFL?

Quite possibly and I'm OK with that after another shit the bed performance in a high stakes game, he isn't going to get better and should have been told to look for another club at the end of last year.

 

[SydCrow]

Isn't Murray in the leadership group?

 

[dplggr47]

Of the SANFL?

Quite possibly and I'm OK with that after another shit the bed performance in a high stakes game, he isn't going to get better and should have been told to look for another club at the end of last year.

It's like less than 5% chance that they will ever drop Laird.

 

[spenze]

It's like less than 5% chance that they will ever drop Laird.

yeah I know, that is why we are a club that hasn't made finals since 2017

 

[Crow till I die]

I know its not for the here and now but, do we consider using our 1st this year to draft Dan Curtin's brother? he looks to be building as both a key back and key forward, is 200cms and might help long term holding onto Dan. I know it will take some time for him to get up to speed, but that is the sort of profile that you could build a key post defence around longer term.

If the eagles are rebuilding, as well as looking to draft the younger Curtin, could you try to get McGovern out for his last year or 2 as a key defender whilst the younger Curtin developed, WCE might be looking at trading a few old guys out for picks to speed up their rebuild?

 

[1970crow]

We have a games played hierarchy, no matter the leadership credentials or potential, Rory Laird

29

Rory Laird

Age

31

Ht

178cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

25.4

5star

K

12.9

5star

HB

12.5

5star

M

5.4

5star

T

2.3

4star

MG

367.5

5star

D

19.6

5star

K

10.9

4star

HB

8.7

4star

M

3.4

3star

T

2.4

3star

MG

255.3

4star

D

14.6

4star

K

7.4

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

3.2

4star

T

4.0

5star

is t going to give a crap about what some junior upstart tells him to do.

 

[SellarStardom]

One can hope. We use to say that about Smith

yeah I know, that is why we are a club that hasn't made finals since 2017

 

[steve9798]

Surely Butts comes back in this week.

Ruck and KPD are our main weaknesses (apart from Nicks). We must recruit an experienced, quality defender this year.

 

[King Elvis]

Keane is a third tall, and cannot play as the main KPD - secondary KPD maybe, if he has someone like Murray to direct/control him. He has to play next to Murray OR Butts, not his fault, he didn't grow up playing the game and doesn't understand it well enough to be the key defender.

But for me, he's a third tall, and we should've traded him to Collingwood.

 

[hugecannon]

Keane is a third tall, and cannot play as the main KPD - secondary KPD maybe, if he has someone like Murray to direct/control him. He has to play next to Murray OR Butts, not his fault, he didn't grow up playing the game and doesn't understand it well enough to be the key defender.

But for me, he's a third tall, and we should've traded him to Collingwood.

I agree and I’m not convinced that he and Worrell can successfully coexist in the same defence.

 

[Jcpdragonx]

When (if) the coach figures out Cumming is a half back, him

 

[1970crow]

When (if) the coach figures out Cumming is a half back, him

Think they know he’s a half back. What they don’t know is that he’s not much more than a mediocre wingman.

 

[checkside95]

It definitely can't be Hinge, he was dropped from the leadership group and whilst he is a handy soldier at battle, his brain fades won't inspire the troops.

Happy to be told that my opinion is completely out there, but with Murray out I think it definitely could be Hinge

Judging on personnel selections and structures so far, it looks like the primary objective of our defensive group is not the traditional defensive objective of "stopping goals". It's trying to generate score from turnover, and trusting that you generate higher scores from this source than you give up

Hinge is trying to get the ball as much as possible, and the players behind the ball are trying to get it in his hands as much as possible. He is the "General" in the sense of organising and directing play out of the back half

To answer "who is the General in charge of making sure defenders are positioned correctly to prevent the opposition from scoring?" unfortunately I think the answer is "no one" and that question is considered much of a priority

 

[spenze]

Think they know he’s a half back. What they don’t know is that he’s not much more than a mediocre wingman.

Would it be worth swapping him and Milera?

 

[spenze]

Happy to be told that my opinion is completely out there, but with Murray out I think it definitely could be Hinge

Judging on personnel selections and structures so far, it looks like the primary objective of our defensive group is not the traditional defensive objective of "stopping goals". It's trying to generate score from turnover, and trusting that you generate higher scores from this source than you give up

Hinge is trying to get the ball as much as possible, and the players behind the ball are trying to get it in his hands as much as possible. He is the "General" in the sense of organising and directing play out of the back half

To answer "who is the General in charge of making sure defenders are positioned correctly to prevent the opposition from scoring?" unfortunately I think the answer is "no one" and that question is considered much of a priority

I guess the question on Hinge was why was he dropped from the leadership group. I could see why Murph was, he couldn't lead a horse to hay but there must have been something going on in the background to move on from Hinge as well. It could have been because smaller leadership group ( I think it is smaller, I don't know, I'm old fashioned I think there should be a captain and vice captain with maybe an unofficial "enforcer").

That being the case, it was probably poor not to have a defensive member in the group and be so forward centric because at present we can look rudderless at times and opposition score quickly against us