Who'd win?

[Yaaablett]

Seeing Super Impose has died I thought we'd go over some old ground. Who'd win

2000m Flemington (Good track) Weight for age.

Super Impose 6H
Makybe Diva 6M
Sunline 5M
Better Loosen Up 5G
Vo Rogue 5G
Northerly 4G
Let's Elope 4M
Bonecrusher 5G
Octagonal 3C

For me it would be Better Loosen Up. His 1990 Australian Cup win against Vo was awesome. Obviously his Japan Cup and Cox Plate wins stamp his ability as well. What a race though! Super would be honest as usual.

 

[Deej]

Seeing Super Impose has died I thought we'd go over some old ground. Who'd win

2000m Flemington (Good track) Weight for age.

Super Impose 6H
Makybe Diva 6M
Sunline 5M
Better Loosen Up 5G
Vo Rogue 5G
Northerly 4G
Let's Elope 4M
Bonecrusher 5G
Octagonal 3C

For me it would be Better Loosen Up. His 1990 Australian Cup win against Vo was awesome. Obviously his Japan Cup and Cox Plate wins stamp his ability as well. What a race though! Super would be honest as usual.

All great horses. It'd be a close one no doubt. I'd LOVE to be betting on a race like that, I'd be super confident on one horse and i reckon he'd start more than each-way odds. When looking at the form i'd think, this is this bloke's chance to destroy an unbelievable field and write his name into aussie folklore. I'd be raiding the bank to get on fair dinkum.

 

[Almost Famous]

Better Loosen Up from Northerly and Sunline very close together.

 

[Ron]

Hmm Might and Power can't get a run?
I'd be putting my money on him.

 

[sethlad]

Racing would be the winner that day

seth

 

[Bloods]

Northerly.

 

[crows_4_life]

gotta go Makybe Diva

 

[Almost Famous]

I doubt Makybe Diva would get close to opposition as good as these. No Winning Belle or Lotteria's here.

 

[Yaaablett]

Hmm Might and Power can't get a run?
I'd be putting my money on him.

Sorry Ron. I cant believe I left him out. I left Saintly out too! I rate Saintly as high as M&P and BLU.

 

[Yaaablett]

I doubt Makybe Diva would get close to opposition as good as these. No Winning Belle or Lotteria's here.

Agreed. Absolute champion 2400-3200 horse who ran into an ordinary bunch for 12 months over shorter trips.

 

[Dr AlfAndrews]

Northerly.

Get in the queue ... no risk

 

[starz]

2000m, so you’re talking about a Cox Plate basically.

The argument about her opposition doesn’t hold up, for one the Diva thrashed FOO in the Cox Plate from last going 7 wide all the way home in third gear eased up. FOO then won it last year beating Pompeii, El Segundo, Miss Finland, Grey swallow etc. You could also argue Sunline/Northerly were lucky in that they raced against much smaller average fields.

From 1600-3200m, as a 5-7+ year old the Diva would easily have them covered.

You can’t look past the fact she broke all the weight carrying records and completely dominated the biggest races that we have and she was set for. She’d run rings around those.

As for second, a few lengths away you could throw a blanket over Northerly/Sunline/Bonecrusher/BLU.

 

[sethlad]

2000m, so you’re talking about a Cox Plate basically.

You could also argue Sunline/Northerly were lucky in that they raced against much smaller average fields.

From 1600-3200m, as a 5-7+ year old the Diva would easily have them covered.

As for second, a few lengths away you could throw a blanket over Northerly/Sunline/Bonecrusher/BLU.

Apart from the fact the "race" is at Flemington,if I didnt know better,I'd be sure you were taking the piss.

seth

 

[starz]

He said WFA over 2000m at Flemington, It wouldn’t matter whether it was MV, Flemington or the moon the outcome would be the same every time.

 

[Ron]

He said WFA over 2000m at Flemington, It wouldn’t matter whether it was MV, Flemington or the moon the outcome would be the same every time.

You'd be kidding if you think the Diva would get within a bulls roar of Might and Power.

 

[Almost Famous]

2000m, so you’re talking about a Cox Plate basically.

The argument about her opposition doesn’t hold up, for one the Diva thrashed FOO in the Cox Plate from last going 7 wide all the way home in third gear eased up. FOO then won it last year beating Pompeii, El Segundo, Miss Finland, Grey swallow etc. You could also argue Sunline/Northerly were lucky in that they raced against much smaller average fields.

From 1600-3200m, as a 5-7+ year old the Diva would easily have them covered.

You can’t look past the fact she broke all the weight carrying records and completely dominated the biggest races that we have and she was set for. She’d run rings around those.

As for second, a few lengths away you could throw a blanket over Northerly/Sunline/Bonecrusher/BLU.

The fact that youre using FOO as a benchmark of champions shows just how far off the mark you are here. He was lengths behind the other horses in this thread as are Pompeii Ruler, El Segundo and all the other top horses we have at the moment. The likes of Northerly, Sunline and Might and Power would have been 5 or 6 infront of that pack as Makybe Diva was making her run. No doubt at all, she would be no chance over 2000m against this lot. As was mentioned, champion 2 mile horse no question but up against the champion 2000m horses of years gone by she is well below them.

As for dominating the races well you must have been watching a different Makybe Diva because I cant recal her dominating a race ever. She won by margins not exceeding 1 or 2 lengths against some of the weakest opposition seen for a while. Its no coincidence that Makybe Diva's emergence as a WFA horse coincided with the entire @rse falling out of our WFA ranks.

 

[tige19]

2000m, so you’re talking about a Cox Plate basically.

The argument about her opposition doesn’t hold up, for one the Diva thrashed FOO in the Cox Plate from last going 7 wide all the way home in third gear eased up. FOO then won it last year beating Pompeii, El Segundo, Miss Finland, Grey swallow etc. You could also argue Sunline/Northerly were lucky in that they raced against much smaller average fields.

From 1600-3200m, as a 5-7+ year old the Diva would easily have them covered.

You can’t look past the fact she broke all the weight carrying records and completely dominated the biggest races that we have and she was set for. She’d run rings around those.

As for second, a few lengths away you could throw a blanket over Northerly/Sunline/Bonecrusher/BLU.

Mate I agree with you 100%, was it the Australian cup that the Diva gave Northerlys race record a flogging?? she was a star, she carried unbelievable weight and still was a class above them. Her Sydney Cup win when she gave Grand Armee 8 lengths with 400 to go was freakish, she not only got past him she left him going backwards.

Honestly the 2004 Melbourne Cup when she ran into Vinnie roe who on ratings and most experts opinions the best stayer in Europe, fighting it out on a BOG of a track that would have suited VR down to a tee and she just put pay to him is out of this world. I would doubt anyother horse in the world would have beaten VR that day, he loved the mud and loved that 3200 and ran a freakish race, its not just luck that the Diva beath him 1.2 lengths.

 

[sethlad]

Her Sydney Cup win when she gave Grand Armee 8 lengths with 400 to go was freakish, she not only got past him she left him going backwards.

This didnt happen,Grand Armee was a 2000m horse,never ran in a Sydney Cup.The fact you're even mentioning the Sydney Cup in a thread about our greatest champions says it all.

The MD was a great weight carrier line is laughable.This is a WFA discussion.
Please try to understand the difference,its chalk & cheese.

I know one thing,there'll be no winner in this discussion because we've had it before on here.

seth

 

[Tim56]

Seeing Super Impose has died I thought we'd go over some old ground. Who'd win

2000m Flemington (Good track) Weight for age.

Super Impose 6H
Makybe Diva 6M
Sunline 5M
Better Loosen Up 5G
Vo Rogue 5G
Northerly 4G
Let's Elope 4M
Bonecrusher 5G
Octagonal 3C

For me it would be Better Loosen Up. His 1990 Australian Cup win against Vo was awesome. Obviously his Japan Cup and Cox Plate wins stamp his ability as well. What a race though! Super would be honest as usual.

People forget that when Vo Rogue was at his top Super Impose and BLU couldn't beat him - read 1990 Australian Cup, even when he was probably past his peak, which was 88/89, where he was nigh on unbeatable, and beat Super any number of times. Freedman even admitted to actively dodging the Vo with Super.

By the way, the Australian Cup you are thinking of where BLU won was 1991 - Vo was well past his best by then. Can't possibly say who would win, but I can promise you Vo Rogue would give them something to beat.

 

[tige19]

Her Sydney Cup win when she gave Grand Armee 8 lengths with 400 to go was freakish, she not only got past him she left him going backwards.

This didnt happen,Grand Armee was a 2000m horse,never ran in a Sydney Cup.The fact you're even mentioning the Sydney Cup in a thread about our greatest champions says it all.

The MD was a great weight carrier line is laughable.This is a WFA discussion.
Please try to understand the difference,its chalk & cheese.

I know one thing,there'll be no winner in this discussion because we've had it before on here.

seth

Bump, it was the BMW.

 

[Deej]

There are fans of great horses, and then there are makybe diva lemmings who know ZIP about racing history. No clue, not worth argueing.

 

[Dirty Jamahl]

There are fans of great horses, and then there are makybe diva lemmings who know ZIP about racing history. No clue, not worth argueing.

Bit harsh but right. Only youngens with no real previous horse history speak so highly of the Diva. They don't know any other horses. The dude (starz???) that said she'd thrash those horses at 1600m has just let us all know he knows nothing about horses. Sunline would comfortably beat makybe by 4-8 lenghts over a mile.

 

[put me in coach]

Bit harsh but right. Only youngens with no real previous horse history speak so highly of the Diva. They don't know any other horses. The dude (starz???) that said she'd thrash those horses at 1600m has just let us all know he knows nothing about horses. Sunline would comfortably beat makybe by 4-8 lenghts over a mile.

Over a mile Mahogany would beat them both, but back to the 2000metre race, if you shift it from Flemington to the Valley then the horse that has been forgotten and shouldn't have been is our first million dollar stakes winner the mighty Kingston Town.

 

[sethlad]

I think the cut-off for this race appears to be Bonecrusher (late 80's)
Considering it's at Flemington,the other obvious champ missing is Dulcify.

Never beaten there in any race he managed to complete,including Aust Cup,Turnbull,Derby & Mckinnon.

seth

 

[Deej]

Shut up with your dulcify sethy that was 7yrs before the crusha.
Mahogony beat Sunline over the mile? At his best it'd be close, depends on weights and luck/run i reckon. Might&Power would win the 2400 version of this.