Who's the Best Small Forward?

[bergholt]

Here's some options. And yes, I realise that some of them haven't played small forward for their entire career, or whatever. Just make a choice.

Working on the theory here that the most important thing a small forward can do is score. So I've included, for 008, their goals, behinds and assists, and added them up to make points per game. Also, for the career, goals and behinds. And, of course, everyone loves their small forwards to tackle, so I've included those stats as well.

(I hope this will be the Stephen Milne vindication thread - though I don't harbour any great hopes that the world at large will recognise his consistency and accuracy.)

Elders before betters (?):

Brad Johnson
2008: 2.0 g, 1.1 b + 0.8 a = 17.9 ppg, 1.5 tck
career: 1.6 g, 1.0 b = 10.6 ppg, 62% acc, 1.5 tck

Jason Akermanis
2008: 2.0 g, 1.1 b + 0.7 a = 17.3 ppg, 1.6 tck
career: 1.3 g, 0.9 b = 8.7 ppg, 59% acc, 2.3 tck

Nathan Brown
2008: 1.9 g, 1.2 b + 0.7 a = 16.8 ppg, 1.7 tck
career: 1.6 g, 1.2 b = 10.8 ppg, 57% acc, 1.2 tck

Brett Burton
2008: 2.6 g, 1.8 b + 1.1 a = 24.0 ppg, 1.2 tck
career: 1.5 g, 1.0 b = 10.0 ppg, 60% acc, 1.6 tck

Stephen Milne
2008: 2.5 g, 1.3 b + 0.7 a = 20.5 ppg, 1.5 tck
career: 2.0 g, 1.1 b = 13.1 ppg, 65% acc, 1.4 tck

Paul Medhurst
2008: 2.1 g, 1.1 b + 0.8 a = 18.5 ppg, 2.2 tck
career: 1.7 g, 1.1 b = 11.3 ppg, 61% acc, 1.4 tck

Daniel Motlop
2008: 2.7 g, 0.9 b + 0.4 a = 19.5 ppg, 2.2 tck
career: 1.6 g, 1.0 b = 10.6 ppg, 62% acc, 2.2 tck

Mark Williams
2008: 2.1 g, 1.4 b + 0.6 a = 17.0 ppg, 1.7 tck
career: 1.7 g, 1.1 b = 11.3 ppg, 61% acc, 1.4 tck

Steve Johnson
2008: 2.1 g, 1.2 b + 1.0 a = 19.8 ppg, 2.6 tck
career: 1.9 g, 1.2 b = 9.1 ppg, 61% acc, 2.1 tck

Aaron Davey
2008: 0.7 g, 0.7 b + 0.5 a = 7.9 ppg, 2.9 tck
career: 1.3 g, 0.9 b = 8.7 ppg, 59% acc, 3.1 tck

Matthew Stokes
2008: 1.7 g, 0.8 b + 0.8 a = 16.4 ppg, 2.4 tck
career: 1.5 g, 0.7 b = 9.7 ppg, 68% acc, 2.6 tck

Jason Porplyzia
2008: 1.8 g, 0.8 b + 0.9 a = 17.0 ppg, 2.7 tck
career: 1.3 g, 0.8 b = 8.6 ppg, 62% acc, 2.5 tck

Cyril Rioli
2008: 1.0 g, 0.8 b + 1.0 a = 12.2 ppg, 3.5 tck
career: 1.0 g, 0.8 b = 6.8 ppg, 56% acc, 3.5 tck

 

[bergholt]

Re: Who's the Best Small Forward? (repost)

So Milne has the best career points per game, the second best career accuracy behind Stokes (who only has three seasons to choose from), and is near the bottom of the pack for career tackles. In 2008, his point per game was second only to Brett Burton. For most of his career, he's been one of the best couple of small forwards for that year. (2006, 2007 he was played further up the ground by GT, to no great effect, so those were down years.)

Milney looks like a rat, but he plays small forward with the best of them.

 

[Claude Balls]

Re: Who's the Best Small Forward? (repost)

Good man! Now I won't be voting

 

[bergholt]

Re: Who's the Best Small Forward? (repost)

Good man! Now I won't be voting

right... either you can't make the tough choice between johnson and stokes, or you can't stand to acknowledge that milne is actually better than either of them. (though at least as much trouble off field as sj.)

 

[Claude Balls]

Re: Who's the Best Small Forward? (repost)

right... either you can't make the tough choice between johnson and stokes, or you can't stand to acknowledge that milne is actually better than either of them. (though at least as much trouble off field as sj.)

No, I was just kidding. It's a tough choice. I think Milne is definately right up there. The problem is however, that most of the other players have played elsewhere for much of the time... i.e. half forward or even in the middle. In that sense, Milne probably gets the nod on default, as he is one of the select few in that list that has played virtually 100% of his footy within the 50m arc. But therein lies another problem - the stats you have presented are misrepresentative, precisely because Milne has had more opportunity to snag goals than the rest, due to the amount of game time he's played from the square etc...

 

[hellfire]

Where's Chapman, Didak and Davis?

 

[Claude Balls]

No surprises that Rioli is equal leader. It seems even making a poll public doesn't dissaude certain Hawks supporters.

 

[Kaiser Powser]

Most those guys are not strictly forwards they do a lot of work thorugh the midfield (Aker, Stokes, Johnson, Porps and Davey) and some of them are not even small (Burton WTF!)

Brown is a very good small forward, but Milne is the best small forward for the fact that he does all the small forward things so well and consitently.

And for those nuff-nuff Hawks fans who think Rioli is the best, he does not even average a goal a game, and before you start, I know that his amazing dozen possessions set up at least 14 goals, but a small forward needs crumbing and snapping goals and that is what Milne excels at and there are few left in the modern game.

 

[Neville Bartos]

I voted for BJ. He's 182cm or something, yet he's been holding up the WB forwardline for years. Gun

 

[bergholt]

Most those guys are not strictly forwards they do a lot of work thorugh the midfield (Aker, Stokes, Johnson, Porps and Davey) and some of them are not even small (Burton WTF!)

Burton's 185/78. Steve Johnson's 189/89. Motlop's 185/91. Brad Johnson and Brown are both 182. Burton plays more of a marking role, but he's not exactly a skyscraper.

And for those nuff-nuff Hawks fans who think Rioli is the best, he does not even average a goal a game...

Hawks fans scare me.

 

[ripitup27]

If Chapman and Didak were there I'd be tossing up between them, but they don't even rate a mention in the poll. Chapman grossly underrated and Didak's off-field behaviour seems to have somehow detracted from what he does on the field.

As a traditional small forward I'd give it to Milne or Medhurst, as a medium forward I'd give it to Johnson or Johnson. I also believe Mark Williams is underrated considering what he's done for Hawthorn.

Anyway, I think I'll refrain from voting because I don't agree with any of the options.

 

[Dazb86]

That and the fact he used to play wing/midfield and only really became a forward a few years ago (few as in 5 yearsish I think)

(referring to Johnson)

 

[bergholt]

Where's Chapman, Didak and Davis?

Fair point. It's too late to put them in the poll, but here's their stats:

Leon Davis
2008: 1.4 g, 1.0 b + 0.7 a = 13.6 ppg, 3.3 tck
career: 1.2 g, 0.8 b = 8.0 ppg, 60% acc, 2.3 tck

Paul Chapman
2008: 1.7 g, 0.7 b + 0.5 a = 14.5 ppg, 2.8 tck
career: 1.3 g, 0.7 b = 8.5 ppg, 65% acc, 3.1 tck

Alan Didak
2008: 1.3 g, 0.8 b + 0.8 a = 13.4 ppg, 2.1 tck
career: 1.4 g, 0.8 b = 9.2 ppg, 64% acc, 1.7 tck

So none of them come up to Milne in career points per game, although they're better tacklers, and all are pretty accurate.

 

[bomberandy]

I went for Stokes. Personally love the way he goes about his footy

 

[Hodgepodge]

Re: Who's the Best Small Forward? (repost)

Rioli will be the best of the lot. Has some of the best skills you'll ever see.

 

[hellfire]

Fair point. It's too late to put them in the poll, but here's their stats:

Leon Davis
2008: 1.4 g, 1.0 b + 0.7 a = 13.6 ppg, 3.3 tck
career: 1.2 g, 0.8 b = 8.0 ppg, 60% acc, 2.3 tck

Paul Chapman
2008: 1.7 g, 0.7 b + 0.5 a = 14.5 ppg, 2.8 tck
career: 1.3 g, 0.7 b = 8.5 ppg, 65% acc, 3.1 tck

Alan Didak
2008: 1.3 g, 0.8 b + 0.8 a = 13.4 ppg, 2.1 tck
career: 1.4 g, 0.8 b = 9.2 ppg, 64% acc, 1.7 tck

So none of them come up to Milne in career points per game, although they're better tacklers, and all are pretty accurate.

Nah they don't. But they do spend more time in the midfield these days, all three of them. So that's to be expected. I'd think there are several players there better than Milne right now (Chapman, Johnson, Didak, Davis), but all don't spend as much time around goals as Milne. So if you're going to go purely on small forward (not midfield time as well), then your argument has more merit. But I hardly think Burton was the best from 08 (despite injury), so ppg is a poor indicator.

 

[The_Flying_Egg]

Re: Who's the Best Small Forward? (repost)

Rioli will be the best of the lot. Has some of the best skills you'll ever see.

Brad Johnson is in our Team of The Century, is a 6 time All Australian, has captained the All Australian team, 3 time B and F and will become our games record holder.

But yeah, obviously Cyril will be better He'll have Aka covered as well

 

[King_Tredrea]

Daniel Motlop, pretty easily too

 

[Hodgepodge]

Re: Who's the Best Small Forward? (repost)

Brad Johnson is in our Team of The Century, is a 6 time All Australian, has captained the All Australian team, 3 time B and F and will become our games record holder.

But yeah, obviously Cyril will be better He'll have Aka covered as well

That's a decent resume for Johnno. I don't think Cyril will ever be captain of the AA side, but he should make it a few times and has abilities that BJ couldn't replicate in a padded room with a trampoline.

 

[NatheM]

I dunno whether Brett Burton really quialifies for small........ I'm pretty sure he does the ruck work when the ball is forward.

Brad Johnson is the correct height for a small forward, but he's built like a truck, do people regard him as a small?

Anyway, I was going to vote Johnson but I went Medhurst, I feel they are equaly as important to their teams structure, but Medhurst would have more goal assists, you just feel safe when he has the ball.

 

[ripitup27]

I dunno whether Brett Burton really quialifies for small........ I'm pretty sure he does the ruck work when the ball is forward.

Brad Johnson is the correct height for a small forward, but he's built like a truck, do people regard him as a small?

Anyway, I was going to vote Johnson but I went Medhurst, I feel they are equaly as important to their teams structure, but Medhurst would have more goal assists, you just feel safe when he has the ball.

Pretty sure Johnson had more goal assists last year. Wasn't he top two or something? But I do rate Medhurst quite highly.

As for Burton, he's smaller than Johnson so I don't think he does the ruckwork much.

Didak and Chapman FTW.

 

[yulong]

Davey isn't our small forward any longer unless those stats are for his brother. Austin Wonaeamirri was our small forward last year so if you like accuracy perhaps you should include him

 

[bergholt]

Davey isn't our small forward any longer unless those stats are for his brother. Austin Wonaeamirri was our small forward last year so if you like accuracy perhaps you should include him

Aaron Davey's the man who made the small forward position fashionable again, with his tackling and forward pressure, so I thought he should be included.

 

[eth-dog]

Aaron Davey's the man who made the small forward position fashionable again, with his tackling and forward pressure, so I thought he should be included.

That was ALWYN Davey, not AARON Davey

 

[yulong]

That was ALWYN Davey, not AARON Davey

Haha... Yeah right. You wouldn't have even picked up Alwyn if Aaron hadn't been so successful as stated above.

Aaron Davey's the man who made the small forward position fashionable again, with his tackling and forward pressure, so I thought he should be included.

It's not really a fair comparison though and adds to the favourable light you throw onto Milne. Don't get me wrong, I think Milne is fantastic and incredibly consistant in the role he plays. Austin probably shouldn't be in there either but if Cyril is from all the hype it would be nice to see Wona's stats. Especially when you pointed toward accuracy as I hinted above, Wona has them all covered.