List Mgmt. Why the exodus?

[Damp Squarie]

Overpriced, homeward bound, too old: Crows legend unpacks why eight star players left

Overpriced, homeward bound, too old: Crows legend unpacks why eight star players left

www.foxsports.com.au

Ricciuto’s comments came in response to former North Melbourne chairman James Brayshaw, who put forward that if he was at the club, he would’ve asked the board why so many players have left, saying “it is ridiculous how many players have requested to leave that place. How does that happen?”

Speaking on Triple M, Ricciuto, an eight time All Australian, went through the list of players put forward and explained why they left the club.

Patrick Dangerfield - “Dangerfield was never going to stay, we would've paid whatever we could to keep Patrick Dangerfield, he’s absolutely loyal, loves loves Moggs Creek he would’ve never stayed... we never even got to money.”

Charlie Cameron - “He was one that we didn’t want to lose, one of the few that we weren’t happy to let go. He got a very very good contract from Brisbane who were down the bottom of the ladder and had plenty of money in their salary cap, couldn't match that, absolutely not. This was at 2017, when you’re at the top of the ladder and you salary cap is chocker blocked you haven’t got much room to move have you? If you pay someone overs or a massive amount of money it means you have to lose someone else. We didn't want to lose him but we lost him.”

Jake Lever - “Got a five-year deal on 800 to 850,000, very comfortable that we let him go on that money, he’s probably a 500,000 player.”

Mitch McGovern - “Comfortable that he went. He’s got what we want and we love people that contest in the forward line and have plenty of speed and we need speed in the forward line but once again 800 and something thousand, has he delivered for Carlton yet? No. Comfortable that he went.”

Eddie Betts - “We need to get some youth into our side, he’s 33, we were comfortable for him to go. Thats not a request to leave that was a mutual agreement.”

Josh Jenkins - “Very happy for him to go. Once again age in our forward line we needed to get some youth in our forward line. Very comfortable, we’re even paying part of his contract, same with Eddie Betts.”

Hugh Greenwood - “That was as much our call or probably more our call. Everyone says we’ve got the slowest midfield in the competition, you can’t just keep having those players in your midfield and then whinge that you’ve git a slow midfield. He’s 28 this year and not going to be playing on our next premiership side so we’re trying to get draft picks in to rebuild.”

Alex Keath - “Got offered a massive amount of money to go to Western Bulldogs, a large amount of money. More than double what he was on at Adelaide. That’s what he wanted and if we kept him we would’ve lost more players.”

Ricciuto concluded by saying he is happy to be transparent surrounding any departures at the club.

“They’re the facts and if anyone disagrees with me, I’m happy to go through it,” he said.

“I’ve always said I’m happy to be asked about players.”
........................................................

Any comments on the above?

 

[Smoooothy]

So if we got rid of Mackay, we could have kept Charlie? What's the issue there??

 

[SaltPeter]

Overpriced, homeward bound, too old: Crows legend unpacks why eight star players left

Overpriced, homeward bound, too old: Crows legend unpacks why eight star players left

www.foxsports.com.au

Ricciuto’s comments came in response to former North Melbourne chairman James Brayshaw, who put forward that if he was at the club, he would’ve asked the board why so many players have left, saying “it is ridiculous how many players have requested to leave that place. How does that happen?”

Speaking on Triple M, Ricciuto, an eight time All Australian, went through the list of players put forward and explained why they left the club.

Patrick Dangerfield - “Dangerfield was never going to stay, we would've paid whatever we could to keep Patrick Dangerfield, he’s absolutely loyal, loves loves Moggs Creek he would’ve never stayed... we never even got to money.”

Charlie Cameron - “He was one that we didn’t want to lose, one of the few that we weren’t happy to let go. He got a very very good contract from Brisbane who were down the bottom of the ladder and had plenty of money in their salary cap, couldn't match that, absolutely not. This was at 2017, when you’re at the top of the ladder and you salary cap is chocker blocked you haven’t got much room to move have you? If you pay someone overs or a massive amount of money it means you have to lose someone else. We didn't want to lose him but we lost him.”

Jake Lever - “Got a five-year deal on 800 to 850,000, very comfortable that we let him go on that money, he’s probably a 500,000 player.”

Mitch McGovern - “Comfortable that he went. He’s got what we want and we love people that contest in the forward line and have plenty of speed and we need speed in the forward line but once again 800 and something thousand, has he delivered for Carlton yet? No. Comfortable that he went.”

Eddie Betts - “We need to get some youth into our side, he’s 33, we were comfortable for him to go. Thats not a request to leave that was a mutual agreement.”

Josh Jenkins - “Very happy for him to go. Once again age in our forward line we needed to get some youth in our forward line. Very comfortable, we’re even paying part of his contract, same with Eddie Betts.”

Hugh Greenwood - “That was as much our call or probably more our call. Everyone says we’ve got the slowest midfield in the competition, you can’t just keep having those players in your midfield and then whinge that you’ve git a slow midfield. He’s 28 this year and not going to be playing on our next premiership side so we’re trying to get draft picks in to rebuild.”

Alex Keath - “Got offered a massive amount of money to go to Western Bulldogs, a large amount of money. More than double what he was on at Adelaide. That’s what he wanted and if we kept him we would’ve lost more players.”

Ricciuto concluded by saying he is happy to be transparent surrounding any departures at the club.

“They’re the facts and if anyone disagrees with me, I’m happy to go through it,” he said.

“I’ve always said I’m happy to be asked about players.”
........................................................

Any comments on the above?

He left out Burton, Pyke, the camp, the coaches blaming the players for being soft between the ears for a start

 

[maxlilly]

So if we got rid of Mackay, we could have kept Charlie? What's the issue there??

Or we could have kept Charlie and heap of draft picks and not got Gibbs

 

[Sidthehat]

Roo deserves criticism in other areas but think these comments fair, though could come back to bite him if Lever gets back to 2017 form in last half of year.

 

[dude316]

Or we could have kept Charlie and heap of draft picks and not got Gibbs

Douglas, Mackay, Otten...

Plenty of ways we could have made room in the cap and paid Charlie more.

 

[Pugsley]

Roo, wipe your mouth. There are plenty of other reasons as to why we have poor player retention.

 

[F_therest]

Roo deserves criticism in other areas but think these comments fair, though could come back to bite him if Lever gets back to 2017 form in last half of year.

I reckon his comments are fair as well...i would agree on pretty much everything he said.

However should he really be saying these things about ex-players publicly? I appreciate the transparency, but not sure someone in his position should be saying things like 'very happy for him to go / he's probably a $500k player / has he delivered for his new team yet? No' even if they're true.

They can be perceived as little digs at players that left and that's not good for culture...it's what Brisbane were doing to their ex-players during the exodus a few years back. It's not very professional...you don't typically see leaders from top clubs making those kind of comments.

Also other top teams like Richmond/Collingwood/Hawthorn/Geelong/West Coast and the other Adelaide based mob don't seem to keep losing players the way Adelaide do...1 or 2 over that time span may be acceptable but that many could suggest poor list/salary management and/or a culture that doesn't convince players to buy into the team success first mantra as well as some other clubs.

Wouldn't surprise if the likes of Mackay/Atkins/Otten/Hartigan/Douglas have been overpaid and the long-term big money deals for Lynch/Jenkins/Betts/Walker were probably mistakes in hindsight. Roo even mentions that Adelaide are paying some of Jenkins and Betts' salary...so that's a list management stuff up but he didn't acknowledge that.

And yes i know Carlton have made maaaany list stuff ups over the years

 

[SaltPeter]

Wouldn't surprise if the likes of Mackay/Atkins/Otten/Hartigan/Douglas have been overpaid and the long-term big money deals for Lynch/Jenkins/Betts/Walker were probably mistakes in hindsight. Roo even mentions that Adelaide are paying some of Jenkins and Betts' salary...so that's a list management stuff up but he didn't acknowledge that.

Both Otten and Hartigan are/were on pretty small contracts. Its been well publicised.

 

[MRB37]

Not exactly sure why Roo needed to dig this all up again? It achieves what exactly? Just setting the club up for more shit. He seriously needs to just shut the **** up sometimes.

 

[feenix67]

What Roo didn't cover is why we kept the players we did. And why guys like Jenkins were retained 9n stupid salaries that prevented us from retaining blokes like Charlie.

 

[Sidthehat]

I reckon his comments are fair as well...i would agree on pretty much everything he said.

However should he really be saying these things about ex-players publicly? I appreciate the transparency, but not sure someone in his position should be saying things like 'very happy for him to go / he's probably a $500k player / has he delivered for his new team yet? No' even if they're true.

They can be perceived as little digs at players that left and that's not good for culture...it's what Brisbane were doing to their ex-players during the exodus a few years back. It's not very professional...you don't typically see leaders from top clubs making those kind of comments.

Also other top teams like Richmond/Collingwood/Hawthorn/Geelong/West Coast and the other Adelaide based mob don't seem to keep losing players the way Adelaide do...1 or 2 over that time span may be acceptable but that many could suggest poor list/salary management and/or a culture that doesn't convince players to buy into the team success first mantra as well as some other clubs.

Wouldn't surprise if the likes of Mackay/Atkins/Otten/Hartigan/Douglas have been overpaid and the long-term big money deals for Lynch/Jenkins/Betts/Walker were probably mistakes in hindsight. Roo even mentions that Adelaide are paying some of Jenkins and Betts' salary...so that's a list management stuff up but he didn't acknowledge that.

And yes i know Carlton have made maaaany list stuff ups over the years

Agree with this. Was in Brisbane at the time and ones who were loudest about those leaving were Hanley and Rockliff I think who Fagan then got shot of.

The deals were all at least a year too long for the forwards. The others unlikely to have been that overpaid except Douglas perhaps. Mackay's 4x 400k obviously too much but not a backbreaker.

 

[Sidthehat]

What Roo didn't cover is why we kept the players we did. And why guys like Jenkins were retained 9n stupid salaries that prevented us from retaining blokes like Charlie.

To be fair he wasn't asked that.

 

[F_therest]

Both Otten and Hartigan are/were on pretty small contracts. Its been well publicised.

Ah OK then on small contracts I can understand them being decent value players. No biggie there. Although objectively speaking it would probably have been better if one of them were phased out earlier and a younger player blooded.

 

[mort0089]

Poor Roo, Fagan and Chapman. How dare anyone question their competence to run a football club, it's never their fault. Anyone who dares to ask the hard questions is ignored or given pathetic excuses. Absolute joke all three of them. They need to go - yesterday!

Fagan is the worst, snake oil salesman if I ever saw one.What does he do straight after ruining the brumbies (but don't dare have the audacity to mention it!). Ruins the crows.

Roo is just there to keep his mates in a job and come up with bullshit excuses to placate the masses (which there is a staggering amount of) who can't see through his rubbish.

Chapman, where do I start.........

Let's not change things just deny, deny, deny. ****ing sick of it, until we change it's only going to get worse folks.

 

[F_therest]

Agree with this. Was in Brisbane at the time and ones who were loudest about those leaving were Hanley and Rockliff I think who Fagan then got shot of.

The deals were all at least a year too long for the forwards. The others unlikely to have been that overpaid except Douglas perhaps. Mackay's 4x 400k obviously too much but not a backbreaker.

Yeah and Brisbane are clearly much better for it...they've turned their culture around from one where good players wanted out (Docherty/Yeo/Polec etc) to one where good players want in (Cameron/Neale/Adams). Started with a change from the top though to happen.

I remember those comments from Hanley/Rockliff and reading whispers that they could act like bullies basically...not very inclusive leaders with a 'my way or the highway' old school approach that put those young talented players offside. No one likes to work under these kinds of people, and it would appear Roo is a bit like that...he seems the type to sweep things under the rug or play down issues and tell you to basically harden up - his public reaction to McLeod's comments hint at this. Chapman & Fagan also seem like the kind of blokes who would have no problem lying to your face and do anything to stay in power.

Those contracts to the role players aren't deal breaker, but when you add all of them to the big money, long term deal of Lynch/Walker/Betts/Jenkins it starts to hurt...and the fact that the coaching staff then kept playing all these older guys, meant not enough younger guys got a proper look in and the list didn't rejuvenate on the go (although arguably some of the kids simply didn't take their chance like Galluci).

 

[BACCS]

Not exactly sure why Roo needed to dig this all up again? It achieves what exactly? Just setting the club up for more shit. He seriously needs to just shut the fu** up sometimes.

This board demands honesty from Crows admin, isn’t this exactly that? Of course this will bring backlash, but I would rather more honesty, not less.

 

[SaltPeter]

Ah OK then on small contracts I can understand them being decent value players. No biggie there. Although objectively speaking it would probably have been better if one of them were phased out earlier and a younger player blooded.

Maybe. Otten was delisted last year. Hartigan's contract ends this year, I'd be surprised if he wasn't delisted then as well. Talia's last year of current contract ends next year. There wasn't really anyone left after Lever left and Doedee did his acl.

Butts was named as an emergency last week, in his second season. McAsey has played the first 2 games this season in his first year. Doedee played his first game back from his acl last week.

The only other tall we have for defence atm is Worrall, also in his first season atm.

 

[BACCS]

What Roo didn't cover is why we kept the players we did. And why guys like Jenkins were retained 9n stupid salaries that prevented us from retaining blokes like Charlie.

Well, Jenkins would’ve been another on the list if he left at the time before his big contract and yet another I’m sure you’d bring up in this argument. They clearly recognized paying overs for players like that was a mistake, so moved on Greenwood and Keath last year, yet that still cops criticism?

Also as someone said above, that wasn’t the question he was asked.

 

[MRB37]

This board demands honesty from Crows admin, isn’t this exactly that? Of course this will bring backlash, but I would rather more honesty, not less.

It's all been said before though. There was zero new information here, it's just making Roo look salty complaining about players, the majority of who left years ago.

 

[conVINCEd]

So we let all those guys go so we could save money that we then spent on... ?

We’ve run out of guns worth decent coin.

Other clubs pay their quality players what they’re worth and keep them.

 

[BACCS]

It's all been said before though. There was zero new information here, it's just making Roo look salty complaining about players, the majority of who left years ago.

Fair enough, I just think Roo is under extreme stress right now and can’t help but defend against anything negative said or written about the club.

 

[BACCS]

So we let all those guys go so we could save money that we then spent on... ?

We’ve run out of guns worth decent coin.

Other clubs pay their quality players what they’re worth and keep them.

With the exception of Charlie, who else do you think we should’ve paid more money to keep? Charlie is the only one we truly miss.

Lever? Gov? Greenwood? Keath? You all blast the club for overpaying Jenkins but then want the club to overpay for those 4? The last 3 are average to ok, they aren’t quality. Lever isn’t and never will be worth 800k, Doedee is a better player anyway. None of these players helped us win in 2017 either.

I don’t get posters on this board sometimes... You want honesty from the club, but only when you agree with what they say. You want them to keep any player out of contract, but then blast them for overpaying players.

 

[Sidthehat]

Yeah and Brisbane are clearly much better for it...they've turned their culture around from one where good players wanted out (Docherty/Yeo/Polec etc) to one where good players want in (Cameron/Neale/Adams). Started with a change from the top though to happen.

I remember those comments from Hanley/Rockliff and reading whispers that they could act like bullies basically...not very inclusive leaders with a 'my way or the highway' old school approach that put those young talented players offside. No one likes to work under these kinds of people, and it would appear Roo is a bit like that...he seems the type to sweep things under the rug or play down issues and tell you to basically harden up - his public reaction to McLeod's comments hint at this. Chapman & Fagan also seem like the kind of blokes who would have no problem lying to your face and do anything to stay in power.

Those contracts to the role players aren't deal breaker, but when you add all of them to the big money, long term deal of Lynch/Walker/Betts/Jenkins it starts to hurt...and the fact that the coaching staff then kept playing all these older guys, meant not enough younger guys got a proper look in and the list didn't rejuvenate on the go (although arguably some of the kids simply didn't take their chance like Galluci).

Do you have any confidence in McGovern making it? Looked better in the second half last week but amazing his contract up at end of season and still shown a fraction of what he looked like he was capable of. Wonder if Eagles pick him up for peanuts and ends up being good for them.

 

[BACCS]

Do you have any confidence in McGovern making it? Looked better in the second half last week but amazing his contract up at end of season and still shown a fraction of what he looked like he was capable of. Wonder if Eagles pick him up for peanuts and ends up being good for them.

Well never be anything than an average player at the highest level, doesn’t have the desire to be a professional athlete.