Will this team get better

[The Clokes]

B: Ben Johnson ~ Simon Prestigiacomo ~ James Clement

HB: Ryan Lonie ~ Shane Wakelin ~ Jason Cloke

C: Tarkyn Lockyer ~ Scott Burns ~ Shane Woewodin

HF: Shane O'Bree ~ Anthony Rocca ~ Andrew Williams

F: Leon Davis ~ Chris Tarrant ~ Alan Didak

FL: Josh Fraser ~ Nathan Buckley ~ Paul Licuria

INT: Brodie Holland ~ Richard Cole
Matthew Lokan ~ Rhyce Shaw

 

[guess_who]

Rhyce Shaw is useless, should have put Kinnear in before him.

 

[guess_who]

Originally posted by The Clokes
B: Ben Johnson ~ Simon Prestigiacomo ~ James Clement

HB: Ryan Lonie ~ Shane Wakelin ~ Jason Cloke

C: Tarkyn Lockyer ~ Scott Burns ~ Shane Woewodin

HF: Shane O'Bree ~ Anthony Rocca ~ Andrew Williams

F: Leon Davis ~ Chris Tarrant ~ Alan Didak

FL: Josh Fraser ~ Nathan Buckley ~ Paul Licuria

INT: Brodie Holland ~ Richard Cole
Matthew Lokan ~ Rhyce Shaw

Ok, Shaw can go to the magoos, Lonie will struggle, Davis turn it up won't get many games unless Didak is injured. Lokan won't get many games,

 

[dunno4]

Sure! Lokan, Williams and Davis will struggle to get games. In will come King, Shackleton and hopefully Davidson.

Also there will be the Shaw vs Shaw vs Shaw tussle. Plus extra height from Cloke Jnr and Richards.

 

[Cyclops]

Originally posted by The Clokes
B: Ben Johnson ~ Simon Prestigiacomo ~ James Clement

Improve/same/same

Originally posted by The Clokes
HB: Ryan Lonie ~ Shane Wakelin ~ Jason Cloke

Improve/worse/improve

Originally posted by The Clokes
C: Tarkyn Lockyer ~ Scott Burns ~ Shane Woewodin

same/same/same

Originally posted by The Clokes
HF: Shane O'Bree ~ Anthony Rocca ~ Andrew Williams

same/same/same

Originally posted by The Clokes
F: Leon Davis ~ Chris Tarrant ~ Alan Didak

Improve/improve/improve

Originally posted by The Clokes
FL: Josh Fraser ~ Nathan Buckley ~ Paul Licuria

Improve/worse/same

Originally posted by The Clokes
INT: Brodie Holland ~ Richard Cole
Matthew Lokan ~ Rhyce Shaw

same/improve/improve/improve

improve=10
same=10
worse=2

Buckley's (and less importantly Wakelin's) decline will be offset by improvement actross the board from a heap of youngsters, and you can add in Walker, Davidson and C Cloke in the big man stakes.

 

[MarkT]

Cyclops,
Buckley won't go backwards yet unless he is injured. He isn't that quick so he won't lose much pace and he is one the best prepared players you'll ever see play the game.

In any even, this won't be the lineup by years end. Hopefully Brayden Shaw makes an impact and Cam Cloke continues to improve. Guy Richards has to be tried in the ruck giving Fraser some forward time which will stretch defenses. Shak and King will play as well. Don't discount a draftee making the grade as has been the case in past years also.

Apart from new players I expect a big improvement from Didak an Lonie who had disappointing years. Lockyer will be a plus on last year. I will be very interested to watch Davidson as well. If he could play a key forward or back role it would be a huge bonus.

If Richards can ruck and Cameron Cloke and Davidson can play key positions, expect another big improvement from Collingwood in 2004.

 

[Jabso]

Didak will move into the midfield role which will give Dane Swan a chance to fill the small forward role.
Ryan Lonie needs to be used more in the midfield just for experience. It will teach him alot about the game.
I think Presti will improve, he was starting to bring rebounding into his game until he got injured.
I am also predicting Burns to really establish himself as one of the leagues best midfielders. Woewodin should be hellbent on improving himself too.

 

[Cyclops]

Originally posted by MarkT
Cyclops,
Buckley won't go backwards yet unless he is injured. He isn't that quick so he won't lose much pace and he is one the best prepared players you'll ever see play the game.

Mark, I agree trhat Buckley is one of the best prepared player around (and about the most professional to boot), but over the last three years I have noticed his gradual physical decline. His skills are still perfect, and his concentration and smarts are if anything still improving (amazing thought).

However he no longer punches 70-80 metre drop punts from one step off his left foot, and he occasionally falters after being hit with the third successive tackle, which didn't use to happen.

Physically he is showing a few little cracks. I expect Bucks to improve his nous even further, which will go some way to offsetting the rising tide of injury that sweeps just about every player away. I don't want him to age and falter, but I expect he will.

 

[MarkT]

Originally posted by Cyclops
Mark, I agree trhat Buckley is one of the best prepared player around (and about the most professional to boot), but over the last three years I have noticed his gradual physical decline.

He had a few leg injuries over 2001 and 2002 which didn;t help. Over the last few yeras he has deliberately lost muscle mass to prolong his career. He has lost a little strength in order to lessen the wear and tear. While his 2001 and 2002 were among his least productive since arriving at Collingwood (and isn't that saying something in itself) his 2003 was back to near his best. No one is physically as good at 30 as they are at 24 but he has a good 2 years at the top and onother 2 years as a very good running midfielder resting on a HFF.

Originally posted by Cyclops
However he no longer punches 70-80 metre drop punts from one step off his left foot, and he occasionally falters after being hit with the third successive tackle, which didn't use to happen.

Reduced weights program. He also ran better this year than in the last couple. remember Gavin Brown? He had his best year for a while when he lost weight and started running again.

Originally posted by Cyclops
Physically he is showing a few little cracks. I expect Bucks to improve his nous even further, which will go some way to offsetting the rising tide of injury that sweeps just about every player away. I don't want him to age and falter, but I expect he will.

Sure he will as does everyone. He will last longer than most though and he will be as good a chance as anyone at the Brownlow next year.

 

[hotpie]

Originally posted by MarkT
Cyclops,
Buckley won't go backwards yet unless he is injured. He isn't that quick so he won't lose much pace and he is one the best prepared players you'll ever see play the game.

He is likely to go backwards (slightly) because injury will begin to test him. No amount of preparation can turn back time. I agree with Cyclops.

 

[MarkT]

Originally posted by hotpie
He is likely to go backwards (slightly) because injury will begin to test him. No amount of preparation can turn back time. I agree with Cyclops.

Injuries will take longer to recover from as he gets older but preperation will limit injuries. Nothing can stem the march of age bit preperation can limit it's impact for early 30's players.

I am not saying (or I don't mean to say) he wont age or he wont start to fell the effects but I do think he has 2 years before it makes any material impact on his game.

 

[Whisky_McKay]

I think he will go to the half forward line.

A HF line of
Buckley Rocca Davidson

With a Full forward line of
O'Bree Tarrant Didak

 

[carringbush]

Backs B.Johnson Wakelin Clement
H/Backs J.Cloke Presti Cole
Centres Woey Licuria Lonie
H/Forward Buckley Rocca Didak
Forward O`Bree Tarrant Davidson

Rucks Fraser Burns Lockyer

Bench Holland Richards Shaw Walker

Emerg Lokan C.Cloke King Shakleton

My thoughts: I would like to see Richie Cole play another year of the back flank as part of his learning before he goes into a midfiels role where I believe he is going to shine.

Lonie on to a wing where we get to see much more of his blistering runs and even more goal scoring

Didak on a flank instead of in the pocket as he has a lot of genuine pace and dead quick off the mark and a lovely long kick

I see O`Bree as more likely to be damaging as a crumbing ball getter close to goal.

Bucks out on a flank for his incredible kicking, space making ability and to prolong his career.

 

[guess_who]

How can we say that Davidson,King or C.Cloke will get games when we have never seen them play. collingwood as enourmous depth.

 

[carringbush]

Some of us go to the willy games and tac cup games when we can

 

[guess_who]

TAC and Willie is a big difference to the AFL...

Huge difference!!!

Players win bloody league best and fairest in the TAC cup or VFL and dont make a name for themselves in the AFL.

 

[Lonie_from_50]

Andrew Dimattina won our VFL Best and Fairest 2 yrs ago. He is a truck, hack whatever.

Dane Swan aint that good either.

 

[carringbush]

Originally posted by guess_who
TAC and Willie is a big difference to the AFL...

Huge difference!!!

Players win bloody league best and fairest in the TAC cup or VFL and dont make a name for themselves in the AFL.

Where else do most of the current vics running around come from?

 

[guess_who]

Originally posted by carringbush
Where else do most of the current vics running around come from?

Yes but just because you are good in the TAC cup dosen't mean your gona be a star in the AFL! It still takes a fair bit to step up from TAC cupto AFL would you not agree?

 

[carringbush]

guess_who
Yes but just because you are good in the TAC cup dosen't mean your gona be a star in the AFL! It still takes a fair bit to step up from TAC cupto AFL would you not agree?

Yes I do agree but I believe it is different today than before as in the past it was boys stepping up to play men, but now it is boys stepping up to play boys who are only a bit older

 

[guess_who]

Agreed on that to but still it takes a fair effort to step up to the plate, the game is much more physicall and much quicker.

 

[carringbush]

I`ll we agree the game is incredibly quicker than ever befor but as for more physical I dont believe so. With trial by video and the afl stance on violence and the greater focus on athletes as opposed to footballer traditional types I feel a lot of the physicality has backed of out of the game and that is why these kids are coming in at a younger age.

 

[GlovemanGayfer]

Chris Judd went straight from TAC/High School to legitimate star in a season. I think that there is no better judge of footballing talent than the TAC cup. SOme slip through the system but not many anymore. Personally I would like to see the pies draft a key forward. Tazza is magnificent but I think playing him at ff is a waste of his talent. He could be the best running half forward in history if we could find another forward.

 

[Matty01]

Collingwood are a mediocre side that have been playing exceptionally brillant over the last two years. They have a couple of absolute stars but most others have had their day in the sun and will fade away as the team pluments to mid to bottom of the ladder.

 

[GlovemanGayfer]

I take it your not a c-wood fan then. I'm thinking a jealous fan of someone like Carlton??