williamstown lost

[MarkT]

To be honest it was a bit depressing to watch. We may well have been better with a few tall forwards to kick to but the Collingwood players that player were by and large very disappointing. Those that say our recruiting has improved are kidding themselves. All that has improved in recent years is the order of our draft picks. We are totally directionless. That isn’t surprising when we lack accountability for results.

Richards is ****. Let me reitterate; ****. He is terrible. Locker should be cleared tomorrow, he was beyond description in terms of terribleness!

In the last half of the 2nd Q and the first half of the 3rd I saw at least 5 occasions where he palmed a limp ball to Geelong players and two were kicked through for goals. He isn’t even up to VFL level. He is rarely fit and when he is he isn't any good. If MM goes into another season with Richards as the ruck backup for Fraser he needs to be held directly responsible for the results for a change.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

To be fair, Geelong had 19 AFL listed players out there, and that was the difference. Callan Gardiner Ablett Kingsley Stokes and Playfair can play a bit.

 

[MarkT]

I think a lot of you have let your dismal views on the way we finished the season cloud your opinion of these youngsters.

This is how the Club seem to make decisions. Deal with the obviously bad. The reality is it is the mediocre that are killing us. The bad aren’t an issue because they generally don’t play and generally don’t lat long. All clubs end up with duds. The problem is the entire middle of our list is inhabited by mediocrity. We have a good older top end, like most clubs. We have a few good youngsters, like most clubs. We have a mass of mediocrity in between, like most mediocre clubs.

We have to focus on how many very good players we have and measure everyone involved on that basis.

 

[MarkT]

To be fair, Geelong had 19 AFL listed players out there, and that was the difference. Callan Gardiner Ablett Kingsley Stokes and Playfair can play a bit.

I wasn’t fussed about the difference. I was concerned with the talent we had to draw on over the next couple of years. The cupboard looked relatively bare. At VFL level we have some solid performers and the good injury run we had meant Willi was well stocked with AFL listed players all year. They were always a good chance of making the finals. I don’t care that Willi lost, I care that there were few shinning lights that play for Collingwood.

 

[FIGJAM]

Danny Nicholls looked like a star, as I've always suggested he would, given his broad range of talents.

You always have, along with Missionpossible (who rated him 12th out of all the kids he watched last year) and LukeHodge15.

Pretty much everyone else wrote him off.

I appreciate that 176 cms and 67 kgs looks awful on paper, and that only a very few players get selected at that height and frame.

He appears to have filled out though (guess 75kgs) and attacked the footy well. Stood up physically against the matured bodied Geelong line up, in what I'd consider an AFL-ish standard of pace and physicallity.

For mine the unwanted height isn't a concern given that he's got most of the other boxes ticked, especially the most important ones of toe, good vision and kicking skills!

 

[understudy]

No one despite me thought Swan had the ability and pace that he does.

These kids have the ability, what they need to do is work their arses off over preseason and come out in 2007 performing to their full ability.

 

[ant22]

This is how the Club seem to make decisions. Deal with the obviously bad. The reality is it is the mediocre that are killing us. The bad aren’t an issue because they generally don’t play and generally don’t lat long. All clubs end up with duds. The problem is the entire middle of our list is inhabited by mediocrity. We have a good older top end, like most clubs. We have a few good youngsters, like most clubs. We have a mass of mediocrity in between, like most mediocre clubs.

We have to focus on how many very good players we have and measure everyone involved on that basis.

To be fair I think the mediocre players are as a result of very bad drafting from about 2000-2004. We have some very good players in there late 20s and some very good players in low the teens or around 20-21 but not a whole lot in between. There is no quick fix solution for this but atleast the recruiting has improved out of sight with hine.

 

[MarkT]

No one despite me thought Swan had the ability and pace that he does.

These kids have the ability, what they need to do is work their arses off over preseason and come out in 2007 performing to their full ability.

Swan was a revelation. If you use your logic though you’d keep almost everyone. Using your logic since 1999 we have a pretty crappy list. It is actually better to let one or two go that end up making it than to keep 10 that don’t. Year 3 and 4 seems the right time to make the calls but if it is obvious before then the there is no point waiting. Swan showed a bot in a couple of games a couple of years back. One in Brisbane I recall in particular. Heath showed a bit at the end of 2005. I don’t think enough to be honest but at least he gave reason for some further opportunity.

Given all the players we have drafted in MM’s time, how many have we delisted that have bitten us?

 

[mightypies9]

I'm starting to get annoyed at our drafting, but one thing in particular..why do we always draft least one player who we then call "the next scott burns" ..its been shackleton, stanley. and everytime ive heard that their disposal "needs improvement' christ...stop getting these players if they cant kick dont have speed..who cares if they got big bodies if they are too slow to get to a contest to use it.

Cook- was decent, from what i saw

Pendles- looked tired but still has that class that i love about him

Nicholls- ill admit when i first saw him play i didnt like him much, but man has he impressed me since, shoudlve been drafted instead of stanley

Cox- again impressed the hell out of me, we seem to draft better rookies then actual draft picks...

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I care that there were few shinning lights that play for Collingwood.

You're way too harsh.

Pendlebury Cox Nicholls Davies Iaccabucci Anthony and Toovey all showed plenty yesterday, to varying degrees and often against bigger older stronger more experienced opponents. Plus Thomas, and O'Brien Rusling T Cloke and Egan from last year, and Swan H Shaw and Maxwell from previous years have all continued to develop further. Very few of the new batch let us down in 2006.

The reason we lost was the same old same old names from years gone by - problems we knew about at the start of the season. I dont think we've discovered many more "new" duds. We'll have less at the start of 2007 than we had at the start of 2006, and far fewer than 2-3 years ago.

 

[MarkT]

To be fair I think the mediocre players are as a result of very bad drafting from about 2000-2004. We have some very good players in there late 20s and some very good players in low the teens or around 20-21 but not a whole lot in between. There is no quick fix solution for this but atleast the recruiting has improved out of sight with hine.

Has it? In 2002 and 2003 we started late in the draft. In 2004 and 2005 we started early. You would expect better results with every round of picks. So far we have seen T.Cloke who was a father/son pick show promise, Rusling at time look very exciting and Thomas and Pendlebury who were 2 and 5 look promising. Big deal. That a minimum expectation as far as I’m concerned. Egan ha shown some flashes but still have question marks after 2 years. No one else has made any impact. It may well be a little early to judge but I keep hearing how much we have improved in the draft when in reality we have had earlier picks in what appear to be better drafts.

The real measure should be have we been the best not better than when we were crap. Unless we draft the best we won’t win premierships.

 

[MarkT]

Pendlebury Cox Nicholls Davies Iaccabucci Anthony and Toovey all showed plenty yesterday, to varying degrees and often against bigger older stronger more experienced opponents.

To varying degrees they showed a bit. Not nearly enough to suggest they will lead an assault on a flag IMO.

Pendlebury Cox Nicholls Davies Iaccabucci Anthony and Toovey all showed plenty yesterday, to varying degrees and often against bigger older stronger more experienced opponents. Plus Thomas, and O'Brien Rusling T Cloke and Egan from last year, and Swan H Shaw and Maxwell from previous years have all continued to develop further. Very few of the new batch let us down in 2006.

Fair enough. We possibly disagree on the top end talent potential there but your statement is correct. All in all thought Rusling didn’t show a lot and I have concerns about Egan. In know Rusling is only 19 and he copped a shoulder injury but he needs to show more in 2007.

The reason we lost was the same old same old names from years gone by - problems we knew about at the start of the season. I dont think we've discovered many more "new" duds. We'll have less at the start of 2007 than we had at the start of 2006, and far fewer than 2-3 years ago.

We should have culled deeper over the last 2 years, Nevertheless the predictability of it all is what makes it all the more disappointing.


Really I couldn’t give a rats about Williamstown. I am only interested in the Collingwood players. The result is neither there nor there. In 2003 we won the reserves and seniors VFL flags and it meant SFA in terms of AFL players.

 

[eddiesmith]

No one despite me thought Swan had the ability and pace that he does.

These kids have the ability, what they need to do is work their arses off over preseason and come out in 2007 performing to their full ability.

Watching Williamstown every week back in 2003 I also thought Swan looked superb and would become a great player

 

[Murray]

No one despite me thought Swan had the ability and pace that he does.

These kids have the ability, what they need to do is work their arses off over preseason and come out in 2007 performing to their full ability.

True.
You were one of the few that thought he would make it

So, how about you give us your views on those that played for Willi on Sunday

 

[understudy]

True.
You were one of the few that thought he would make it

So, how about you give us your views on those that played for Willi on Sunday

Wasnt their and havent watched the full game to be honest Murray so ill refrain from elaborating further, only to say I see potential in Pendles, Yakka and Cox in particular.

Will be back for more comments in 2007.

 

[ant22]

Has it? In 2002 and 2003 we started late in the draft. In 2004 and 2005 we started early. You would expect better results with every round of picks. So far we have seen T.Cloke who was a father/son pick show promise, Rusling at time look very exciting and Thomas and Pendlebury who were 2 and 5 look promising. Big deal. That a minimum expectation as far as I’m concerned. Egan ha shown some flashes but still have question marks after 2 years. No one else has made any impact. It may well be a little early to judge but I keep hearing how much we have improved in the draft when in reality we have had earlier picks in what appear to be better drafts.

The real measure should be have we been the best not better than when we were crap. Unless we draft the best we won’t win premierships.

Do the names Morrison , Cole and Nixon mean anything to you? All 1st rounders(expect for nixon early second round- pick 21) and all duds 3 years in a row.
Someone can correct me if i am wrong but I think Hine started in 2004 when we selected Egan. Russell went before him and Adam thompson after him. Despite I poor final I thought he showed plenty and he still has a stack of improvement in him. rusling will be good , he had a massive setback but still showed quite a bit late in the season. T Cloke was showing everyone what he is capable of before getting injured late in the season and Yakka was pick 55. He may not make it but has shown as much as most players at the pick.

Fair enough last year we had 2 and 5 but hine took big risks and eveyone thought he was crazy but i dont think too many pies fans are dissapointed after what thomas and pendles have shown. Stanley looks the biggest dissapointment but most judges had him between 10-20 last year so there must have been something very impressive about him. Some players for some reason don't improve.

I think based on these facts even though it is very early days and anything can happen I reckon our recruitment has improved alot.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I like Ryan Cook. Theres a little bit of Russell Robertson about him. Will be a player in 2008.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Do the names Morrison ,.

To be fair Morrison was technically not a first round pick. We basically got him for free.

 

[eddiesmith]

To be fair Morrison was technically not a first round pick. We basically got him for free.

Billy Morrison

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Billy Morrison

Ahh BBBBM.

Forgot about him.

 

[MarkT]

I think based on these facts even though it is very early days and anything can happen I reckon our recruitment has improved alot.

We have taken Eagan at 10 in 2004, having actually started with 7, Thomas with 2 and Pendlebury with 5. The jury is out on Egan. Thomas is exciting but at 2 he should be. Pendlebury at 5 was a risk. If it comes off then all credit to Hine. Rusling in 20044 was a second rounder and again a risk but I like his attributes. Travis Cloke was a F/S pickup and a bargain but you can't credit Hine there.

Yes we have better talent in better drafts with earlier picks. Great that we have done better but I wouldn’t be celebrating anything yet.

 

[ant22]

We have taken Eagan at 10 in 2004, having actually started with 7, Thomas with 2 and Pendlebury with 5. The jury is out on Egan. Thomas is exciting but at 2 he should be. Pendlebury at 5 was a risk. If it comes off then all credit to Hine. Rusling in 20044 was a second rounder and again a risk but I like his attributes. Travis Cloke was a F/S pickup and a bargain but you can't credit Hine there.

Yes we have better talent in better drafts with earlier picks. Great that we have done better but I wouldn’t be celebrating anything yet.

not celebrating anything at all Mark its just that I don't think we could have done any worse in Judkins last few years. I also forgot to add shackleton who was also a top 25 pick.
I am fully aware that anything can happen to these kids and despite the fact that we had the 2nd and 5th pick last year which obvisouly gave hine an advantage, early indications are that Hine has done at the very least a reasonable job which is more than we can say for judkins.

 

[Snoop Dog]

I think a lot of you have let your dismal views on the way we finished the season cloud your opinion of these youngsters.

Pendlebury was solid, and it's a bit much to suggest that he needs to be taking the opponent on at every opportunity at this stage. If anyone has ever criticised Egan for being arrogant and/or trying to do too much, then they MUST forgive Pendlebury for his opposite, diminuitive approach to the game.

Iacobucci looked excellent, but then again, he always does, yet fails to make a significant impact at AFL level. I'm starting to think it's because he doesn't get enough gametime though - He should be given as close to 100% time in the midfield through all of our NAB Cup/Practice matches next year, just to see how he would match it given the opportunity to succeed.

Danny Nicholls looked like a star, as I've always suggested he would, given his broad range of talents.

Anthony looked good for a kid developing in one of the hardest positions on the field.

Ryan Cook was solid, if not particularly impressive, but it is not as though he was being used as a 1st or 2nd target up forward.

Stanley looked ordinary, but he wasn't used well, as he was thrown up forward and spent a lot of the game on the pine.

Shannon Cox looked very, very good in my opinion - Particularly for a guy played pretty well out of position. It says a lot about him that despite the fact that he is not a defender, Brad Gotch trusts him enough to move him onto a red-hot Nathan Ablett. I had always thought he was a little short for a tall player, but now I view him as having good height for a running player.

Alan Toovey backs himself and has excellent pace for his size. I wouldn't waste any time trying to turn him into a midfield tagger - I really think that could be the best spot for him.

Rowe and Richards looked pretty crap, but realistically, we've seen what they can do.

But realistically, I'd say that only Rowe, Richards and Stanley looked BAD on the day. Cook looked good, but just wasn't getting used by his teammates, and the rest, I feel, all showed signs.

VV - Agree with most but

think your view of Cooks game is a little optimistic. I counted a handful of touches.

Re Pendlebury - do not disagree but the kid needs to run some lines and kick long - I did not see him do it once.

 

[THATSGOLD]

It was a great game to watch. PENDLEBURY was silky!!!! He seems to have so much time.

JOHN ANTHONY will play next year he is built like a brick art house and moves like goodes so athletic! bad luck willy.

ROSE played a lone hand up front dont know where he was in the last quarter.

We were beaten by 2 many geelong senior players 19 in fact! WELL DONE WILLY!!!!

 

[The bomb 9]

Any thoughts on Iaccobucci? I noticed he got a lot of the ball but only when it wasn't really a contest, seems to not go hard at contests just grabs the 'free' ball.

Saw the game on Sunday and can pretty much say he did grab the hard ball given his goal from a boundary contest- which was sensational. I have been following Williamstown and his been in the best in the last few games. I guess what you really mean is that there are some players who wait and receive disposal from hard ball gets, and some who go in and get it, I think there are few others in that side who definetely don’t do either and should really evaluate their own games. The Bucc is definetely not one of these players. He should be playing in the Collingwood side as he has the talent and footy smarts to become a 100 + game player. (Mick here is your pace answer). The other player the definetely should get a run is Harry O' Brien.