Worker exploitation

[Ratts of Tobruk]

Previously I've posted in 457 discussions about worker exploitation (see quote below which links to one, and has a link within it to another), but there are so many that it really does need to have it's own thread.

The latest is from SBS who has used their LOTE expertise to go undercover in the Vietnamese community and discover something I think most of us suspect already - restaurants paying illegally low wages (as low as $6/hr). The tip-off came from a FB post. Businesses avoiding paying tax was also an issue - again, unsurprisingly, given the cash economy elements.

This follows other high profile examples, like 7/11, Domino's (full detail here) and United Petroleum. I myself was underpaid in an early job, and the business tried to get away with it by asking me to sign-off as a 'sub-contractor' after I'd done the Summer's work. Exploitation of Working Holidaymakers is common too if you ask around or are across the report by the ombudsman. Here's a non ABC/Fairfax story from news.com.au for those right-wingers who dismiss those respectable outlets. Some of my interaction with 457 workers being exploited is in the post below:

I found a 457 discussion thread from 2007 over here and posted in there regarding the latest news...

4 Corners tonight reveals how student visa holders are exploited because they work over the hours their Visa allows and so they can be held over a barrel by employers who do them over with underpaying them or making them work much longer hours that end up on their pay slip.

I personally know this also happens with 457s, so I was disappointed when it was brought up under the last Labor govt that the narrative the media ran with was that there wasn't one example of 457 exploitation. It seemed obvious living in Sydney's Eastern Suburbs where there are so many 457 workers. Illegal work practices, money withheld, promises of promotion or wage rises that never come, etc. References are often made up by people going for 457s and they aren't checked by the regulators.

Surely these concerns should feed into the current discussion of the Chinese FTA that allows Chinese companies to bring in workers if they advertise and can't find locals to do that job. I know bar staff in Sydney on 457s. Hard to believe you can't find a local to do that.

Surely it's fair to say that we don't consider this a 'crisis' because it so often involves internationals, including people with poor English? Or, again, to offer something to right-wingers so they might be motivated to get something to happen on this issue - surely this means there needs to be a legal way to pay new workers less so that these businesses don't always try and exploit internationals (as the fast food chains are allowed to do)?

 

[Ruck Machine]

By definition a worker can't be exploited as the voluntarily enter into an arrangement with an employer.

The correct minimum wage is $0

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

Paul Keating has been in the press again of late, talking foreign policy and getting asked about all sorts of things. He reminded me of the role the Unions had in ensuring our transformation to a more deregulated economy. Worth keeping in mind the next time Liberals admit that Hawke/Keating did good reforms.

They have a role both in protecting workers from exploitation and helping implement macro-economic policy.

 

[pazza]

It is widespread.

But, the mass media won't really cover it..in fear of losing their advertising dollars. Then again, Dave Hughes did go there on Logies night!

 

[medusala]

Paul Keating has been in the press again of late, talking foreign policy and getting asked about all sorts of things. He reminded me of the role the Unions had in ensuring our transformation to a more deregulated economy. Worth keeping in mind the next time Liberals admit that Hawke/Keating did good reforms.

Oh the humour. He loves to rewrite history ("i never tried to introduce a GST"). The unions were the ones behind the disaster of the Accord. They were all in favour of cabotage, no ticket no start, banning of wide combs in shearing sheds etc etc.

They have a role both in protecting workers from exploitation and helping implement macro-economic policy.

FFS.

 

[Showbags]

By definition a worker can't be exploited as the voluntarily enter into an arrangement with an employer.

The correct minimum wage is $0

Do you have any concept of economic coercion and the fact that people have no choice but to work? Obviously not or you just don't care.

People like you would say 'you aren't forced to work, if you don't like the pay and conditions on offer then don't work for an employer'. And then turn around and say 'get off your arse you lazy dole bludger'.

All this despite the raw numbers saying that for every job vacancy there are roughly 10 job seekers for that one job. So no, people can't just choose to work wherever they want. The raw numbers make that impossible (also why it is beyond cruel to crack down on welfare recipients and continually demonize them).

And then to top it off you would have us become like America, where people can work 40-50 hours per week and still not get enough to put a roof over their head, food on their table etc.

 

[Power Raid]

Previously I've posted in 457 discussions about worker exploitation (see quote below which links to one, and has a link within it to another), but there are so many that it really does need to have it's own thread.

The latest is from SBS who has used their LOTE expertise to go undercover in the Vietnamese community and discover something I think most of us suspect already - restaurants paying illegally low wages (as low as $6/hr). The tip-off came from a FB post. Businesses avoiding paying tax was also an issue - again, unsurprisingly, given the cash economy elements.

This follows other high profile examples, like 7/11, Domino's (full detail here) and United Petroleum. I myself was underpaid in an early job, and the business tried to get away with it by asking me to sign-off as a 'sub-contractor' after I'd done the Summer's work. Exploitation of Working Holidaymakers is common too if you ask around or are across the report by the ombudsman. Here's a non ABC/Fairfax story from news.com.au for those right-wingers who dismiss those respectable outlets. Some of my interaction with 457 workers being exploited is in the post below:

Surely it's fair to say that we don't consider this a 'crisis' because it so often involves internationals, including people with poor English? Or, again, to offer something to right-wingers so they might be motivated to get something to happen on this issue - surely this means there needs to be a legal way to pay new workers less so that these businesses don't always try and exploit internationals (as the fast food chains are allowed to do)?

Just do what we do with super and make directors personally liable.

 

[DaRick]

By definition a worker can't be exploited as the voluntarily enter into an arrangement with an employer.

The correct minimum wage is $0

In libertarian-land maybe.

In real life, you will find that putting the minimum wage at $0 will:

- Increase the number of welfare recipients (because who's gonna work for $0?)
- Put downward pressure on wages to the point where the lower rungs would simply be better off going on welfare than actually working (because employers will start to think "hey, why am I paying this bloke $500 a day when this guy is receiving $0?)
- Stifle Australia's economy because it is somewhat reliant on consumer demand to grow and nobody in their right mind will spend money they don't have especially when they're already in debt up to their eyeballs (as many Australians are ATM)
- Increase crime, especially where people aren't eligible for welfare (people who are penniless and desperate can do dangerous things - just ask Argentina or any other highly unequal society)

 

[Fire]

People who want no or an unlivable minimum wage are extremists.

As if it was some sort of councidence that pretty much all the countries worth living in have decent minimum wages.

Its like they believe that a poulation capable of discretionary spending is a drain on the economy.

 

[DaRick]

People who want no or an unlivable minimum wage are extremists.

As if it was some sort of councidence that pretty much all the countries worth living in have decent minimum wages.

Its like they believe that a poulation capable of discretionary spending is a drain on the economy.

You'll find that there are several types of people who oppose a livable minimum wage:
- Amero-style libertarians and conservatives (because they worship Objectivism)
- Businesses, particularly big business (why pay more when they can simply get the government to subsidise them?)

Discretionary spending could only possibly be a drain on the economy if there's runaway growth + inflation, but that's certainly not the case in the contemporary West.

 

[Rear Admiral]

In practical terms, what's happening with our current Immigration and Foreign Visa Worker policies is an absolute joke. Irrespective of what the actual policies stipulate, the fact of the matter is that countless numbers of Australian businesses are bypassing Australian Citizens and importing cheap labour in their thousands. And this has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Boat People....it's the "Tarmac Invasion" that I'm referring to.

Now when considering all this, there definitely are specific positions where we do lack the skills and need to bring in foreign workers urgently. A perfect example of this are jobs that require multilingual applicants. But the sort of numbers of foreign workers we're bringing in is up through the stratosphere, in comparison to the real number of positions that cannot be filled with Australian workers. Added to this, many racists/bigots/Islamophobes are trying to use this issue as a platform to spew forth their vile, demented filth against pretty much anyone who isn't white, and particularly those of Islamic Faith and/or Middle Eastern appearance. There are many idiots out there that want those they see as "un-Australian" (read: all Muslims/Middle Eastern migrants) deported, locked up, or shot. And this is no exaggeration. These idiots that spew this vile filth need to be shown up for the demented idiots they truly are.

But the problem still remains that our current Immigration and Foreign Visa Worker policies are an absolute rort like no other. What this journo says here hits the nail right on the head and cannot be disputed:

Link

Link

The list of articles on what this bloke mentioned above is a million miles long, yet the Libs/Nats are helping businesses bypass Aussie workers in their thousands. Ignore the name/title of the above videos and just listen to what this journo has to say....but people can't. As soon as most people see the name and title of these videos, they just roll their eyes and think eccentric/idiot/racist, when they truly have no idea. There are three extremes in this issue -

• The bigots and Islamophobes, typically on the far-Right. They simply want the reintroduction of a White Australia Policy, where Muslims and people from the Middle East are locked fairly and squarely in their Crosshairs.
• Another group that goes berserk and starts blindly screaming "racism" whenever they hear any attempt at a rational debate on Immigration and our Foreign Visa Worker policies. Yes, absolutely, racism is a huge issue and one that must be tackled, but this is not what this debate is about.
• The other group is the business community, and at a very fundamental level, they just want to hire any person at any rate and any conditions, no questions asked. And God help anyone that stands in their way.

Unfortunately, these are the idiots that get the most press, where the third group have the most sway.

The problem with this issue is not enough people mobilise and send emails/petitions. Some do, sure, but nowhere near enough. But if there's one thing that most Aussies will get up and do something about, and that's to defend their apathy and laziness in regards to actually doing something about important issues. On defending their apathy/laziness, most Aussies will fight tooth and nail. If the Government were to introduce some sort of "Apathy Tax", they'd have more money than they knew what to do with.

 

[Benny78]

I believe the problem in our society is profits.

If we added all the profits our companies make onto our budget. We'd be pretty well off as a society. Unfortunately they just lavish in the Caymans. If everything was government owned, all the profits would funnel back into the government and thus the budget. Which is a "black holes world away" between being stuck in Caymanland.

I cannot see an argument as to why a private sector is superior to a public one. The profits are the entire difference or the "black hole". Add up all our companies profits for yourself and see what we'd look like as a nation with that in our budget rather than Caymans.

 

[Power Raid]

We should encourage people who want to come and work here, especially if they open new businesses that create real wealth and employment. Making it easy to come, on work visas, is a fabulous start.

Of course we need to modernise our wage system, tax system and welfare system to adjust to globalisation and retain fairness. but the reality is workers will come here for the work or businesses will go to the labour force. You can't have a "labour market" without labour or work.

What we also need to avoid is high density and bigger and bigger cities. This is the cause of lower quality standards of living, not a competitive labour market.

 

[Rear Admiral]

I believe the problem in our society is profits.

If we added all the profits our companies make onto our budget. We'd be pretty well off as a society. Unfortunately they just lavish in the Caymans. If everything was government owned, all the profits would funnel back into the government and thus the budget. Which is a "black holes world away" between being stuck in Caymanland.

I cannot see an argument as to why a private sector is superior to a public one. The profits are the entire difference or the "black hole". Add up all our companies profits for yourself and see what we'd look like as a nation with that in our budget rather than Caymans.

 

[Rear Admiral]

There's this myth peddled by the (current) Government and the business community that if you suddenly add more and more people to any given economy (e.g. via immigration), it somehow miraculously "creates more jobs and wealth" for everyone. This is utter nonsense. At a fundamental level, every economy is based around resources (or access to them). Adding more and more people does not somehow "create more wealth".

These are but some of many articles that discuss immigration and the importing of foreign labour:

http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-...th-can-make-us-worse-off-20150704-gi57fx.html

http://www.rossgittins.com/2017/07/how-economic-neglect-has-fed-populist.html

https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2017/08/gittins-lower-immigration-reduce-lot-economic-problems/

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...y/news-story/c44577b65d465c199f84e9e9e5eea844

https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2016/09/pc-calls-national-population-strategy/

"The PC found that ‘the distribution of these benefits varies across the population, with gains mostly accrued to the skilled migrants and capital owners. The incomes of existing resident workers grow more slowly than would otherwise be the case’."

People can either promote or oppose our current Immigration and Foreign Visa Worker policies as much as they like....but for those choosing to promote them (in their current form), it's simply a matter of how big a hole they're digging for themselves and how foolish they wish to look, in terms of arguing with the actual evidence that's been published....repeatedly.

For those that are in support of our current Immigration and Foreign Visa Worker policies, it's worthwhile reading what's mentioned here.