Yahoo! NBA Trade.

[Alphanumeric]

Hey guys.

I've just traded Yao and BWallace, for TParker and Bogut.

What do you guys think of the trade??

 

[Borgsta]

What kind of league? How many teams?

 

[mdc]

What kind of league? How many teams?

I'm not sure it matters. It's a bad trade in almost any format.

Yao is a key player if healthy, TP and Bogut are both filler.

 

[Alphanumeric]

Head to head, 16 teams, 9 cats.

My current roster is:
Rafer Alston
(Hou - PG)
Jamal Crawford
(GS - PG,SG) INJ
Daequan Cook
(Mia - PG,SG)
Anthony Morrow
(GS - PG,SG,SF)
Hakim Warrick
(Mem - SF,PF)
Shawn Marion
(Mia - SF,PF)
Yao Ming
(Hou - C)
Brad Miller
(Sac - C)
Derek Fisher
(LAL - PG)
Gilbert Arenas
(Was - PG) INJ
Ben Wallace
(Cle - PF,C)
Zach Randolph
(LAC - PF,C) INJ
Kevin Martin
(Sac - SG) INJ

 

[Borgsta]

I hope blocks ain't one of your cats cos you just got rid of all of your blocks.

I don't understand the trade at all, Parker won't exactly give you assists and won't really give more pts than Yao anyway.

 

[Messenger]

That is one stinky team there, Alphanumeric

Yao would be due to get injured shortly, but you have cost yourself blocks and boards with that trade.

 

[Deledio2Conca]

I'm no expert trader (although I'm trying to rectify that ), but I reckon you could have got alot more for Yao and Ben.

 

[sirlothie]

This trade is not so bad as made out. Obviously Yao is significantly better than any of the other 3 players listed but TP and Bogut both have it over Ben Wallace nowadays. Enough to overhaul Yao? Let's see.

Points:

Yao 20.1
Wallace 3.0
Total: 23.1

Parker 21.6
Bogut 11.3
Total: 32.9

Clear win for Parker/Bogut

Rebounds:

Yao 9.7
Wallace 6.8
Total: 16.5

Parker 3.1
Bogut 10.7
Total: 13.8

Win for Yao/Wallace but not as significant as one would think.

Assists:

Yao 1.6
Wallace 0.7
Total: 2.3

Parker 6.7
Bogut 1.9
Total: 8.6

Huge win for Parker/Bogut

FG%:

Yao .541
Wallace .457

Parker .503
Bogut .563

Surprisingly Parker/Bogut again get up.

FT%:

Yao .879
Wallace .429

Parker .804
Bogut .548

Draw. Yao .075 better than Parker, Bogut .119 better than Wallace. But weight of FT taken by Yao probably tips it in their favour. Just.

Steals:

Yao 0.4
Wallace 0.8
Total: 1.2

Parker 0.8
Bogut 0.6
Total: 1.4

Slight win Parker/Bogut

Threes:

Yao 0
Wallace 0

Parker 0.3
Bogut 0

Parker/Bogut by default. Parker only one of the 4 to actually hit a three so far.

Blocks:

Yao 1.7
Wallace 1.7

Parker 0.1
Bogut 0.9

Big win for Yao/Wallace.



Let's face it in this trade Wallace barely qualifies as steak knives as he is barely rosterable. Parker and Bogut are both whilst not guns more than handy and their combined production outweighs Yao's contributions, although obviously at twice the number of games spent.

But you shifted some dead wood in Wallace, Yao's loss is 90% covered in these two players and you significantly add to your assists and points column. Nice trade.

If Yao goes down which on past history he almost definitely will do then you basically got Parker and Bogut for nothing.

 

[mdc]

Let's face it in this trade Wallace barely qualifies as steak knives as he is barely rosterable. Parker and Bogut are both whilst not guns more than handy and their combined production outweighs Yao's contributions, although obviously at twice the number of games spent.

But you shifted some dead wood in Wallace, Yao's loss is 90% covered in these two players and you significantly add to your assists and points column. Nice trade.

If you ever find yourself in a cash league, I would highly appreciate an invite.

 

[Borgsta]

Let's face it in this trade Wallace barely qualifies as steak knives as he is barely rosterable. Parker and Bogut are both whilst not guns more than handy and their combined production outweighs Yao's contributions, although obviously at twice the number of games spent.

But you shifted some dead wood in Wallace, Yao's loss is 90% covered in these two players and you significantly add to your assists and points column. Nice trade.

If Yao goes down which on past history he almost definitely will do then you basically got Parker and Bogut for nothing.

So why not just drop Wallace and pick up someone who can get 4-5 assists per game? It's a bad trade because you are getting rid of 1 gun for 2 serviceable players. I'd be willing to wager that the bloke who picked up Yao has already delisted Wallace.

 

[mdc]

So why not just drop Wallace and pick up someone who can get 4-5 assists per game? It's a bad trade because you are getting rid of 1 gun for 2 serviceable players. I'd be willing to wager that the bloke who picked up Yao has already delisted Wallace.

The other little detail in all of this is that Wallace is actually ranked slightly above Bogut

 

[sirlothie]

The other little detail in all of this is that Wallace is actually ranked slightly above Bogut

In a 9 cat league only. In an 8 cat, Bogut is ranked 101, Wallace 171.

If you are jettisoning the TO category which this guy obviously is with so many PG's, Bogut is far superior in every category except blocks to Wallace.

If this guy is playing small ball roto, Parker and Bogut at the C will have him strong in assists while also holding his own in rebounds, only blocks and TO's suffer.

 

[mdc]

In a 9 cat league only. In an 8 cat, Bogut is ranked 101, Wallace 171.

...but he's said it's 9-cat

If you are jettisoning the TO category which this guy obviously is with so many PG's, Bogut is far superior in every category except blocks to Wallace.

epic fail. He has Alston, Fisher, Marion etc... all of whom are very low TO. With the possible exception of boards, TOs is probably his best cat!

If this guy is playing small ball roto, Parker and Bogut at the C will have him strong in assists while also holding his own in rebounds, only blocks and TO's suffer.

To quote Frank Constanza - WHAT THE HELL DOES THAT MEAN?!

 

[sirlothie]

So why not just drop Wallace and pick up someone who can get 4-5 assists per game? It's a bad trade because you are getting rid of 1 gun for 2 serviceable players. I'd be willing to wager that the bloke who picked up Yao has already delisted Wallace.

Don't forget Yao hasn't played more than 57 games in a season since 04-05.

Ming is a 20/10, couple of blocks and assists player. That's quality.

Parker is a 20/7, with 3 boards and a steal player. That's quality too, just behind Yao really.

Bogut is below this again, 12 points but as many if not more boards than Yao averaging 10.7 so far. Parker covers the points difference easily and finding 6.7 assists per game isn't possible unless you want to have fun and games with Ridnour or Sessions merry-go-round.

He already got Zach Randolph coming back who is averaging 23/10 with the Clippers, really all he has done is written off TO's and blocks but if Arenas get back soon he will have all the small men categories well covered.

Time will tell.

 

[sirlothie]

...but he's said it's 9-cat

Once again, if he is not focusing on winning TO's, Bogut is far Wallace's superior.

epic fail. He has Alston, Fisher, Marion etc... all of whom are very low TO. With the possible exception of boards, TOs is probably his best cat!

He also has Crawford and Arenas coming back. He has 6 PG eligible players, plus Kevin Martin, plus Bogut and Randolph. He will not be winning the TO category.

To quote Frank Constanza - WHAT THE HELL DOES THAT MEAN?!

Small ball roto, means he will be focusing on winning categories dominated by small men now, steals, threes, FT%, assists, rather than rebounds, blocks, FG% and TO's.

Points is neither a small man or big man category but clearly this guy's team is now small man stat orientated.

His current roster is:
Rafer Alston
(Hou - PG)
Jamal Crawford
(GS - PG,SG) INJ
Daequan Cook
(Mia - PG,SG)
Anthony Morrow
(GS - PG,SG,SF)
Hakim Warrick
(Mem - SF,PF)
Shawn Marion
(Mia - SF,PF)
Tony Parker
(SA - PG)
Brad Miller
(Sac - C)
Derek Fisher
(LAL - PG)
Gilbert Arenas
(Was - PG) INJ
Andrew Bogut
(Mil - C)
Zach Randolph
(LAC - PF,C) INJ
Kevin Martin
(Sac - SG) INJ

Doesn't look strong but he's in a 16 team league, so that should dominate most small man cats if luck goes his way and there is less INJ's coming home.

Kevin Martin is killing me too.

 

[Borgsta]

Don't forget Yao hasn't played more than 57 games in a season since 04-05.

Ming is a 20/10, couple of blocks and assists player. That's quality.

Parker is a 20/7, with 3 boards and a steal player. That's quality too, just behind Yao really.

That is not just behind Yao, it is very far behind.

Basically in the 9 cat format he has given up about 50 spots in average rankings (Yao 15 - Parker 53 and Wallace is on top of Yao).

Which cats would he be doing really well in? It doesn't look like a team that does particularly well in assists or 3's, can't see him winning steals either.

Put simply if he was going to give up Yao he could have gotten a much better standard of PG. Someone like Jason Terry would have been a better option IMO but even that is selling Yao short as both Parker are Terry are doing better than expected.

 

[realsniper09]

If Yao gets injured, he wins.
If Yao doesn't, he loses big time.

He should've got more value out of Yao, but it's a H2H league and if Yao is not playing in those final 3 weeks for whatever reason, he's being wasted.

I just got Butler in a straight swap for Yao which I'm happy with because the risk of Yao not playing in those final 3 weeks is just too high for me.

 

[mdc]

Once again, if he is not focusing on winning TO's, Bogut is far Wallace's superior.

And once again, if you actually ran the numbers instead of playing with bizarre concepts like "small-ball", you'd see that regardless of the trade, TOs will be a major win for him. His average TOs is 1.8, which is stellar.

He also has Crawford and Arenas coming back. He has 6 PG eligible players, plus Kevin Martin, plus Bogut and Randolph. He will not be winning the TO category.

See above. And that's not taking into account that there's been word Arenas will be shelved for the entire year.

Small ball roto, means he will be focusing on winning categories dominated by small men now, steals, threes, FT%, assists, rather than rebounds, blocks, FG% and TO's.

This is a ridiculous concept. You cannot focus on 5 of the 9 cats and be competitive against any sort of decent competition.

 

[mdc]

If Yao gets injured, he wins.
If Yao doesn't, he loses big time.

He should've got more value out of Yao, but it's a H2H league and if Yao is not playing in those final 3 weeks for whatever reason, he's being wasted.

I just got Butler in a straight swap for Yao which I'm happy with because the risk of Yao not playing in those final 3 weeks is just too high for me.

Normally I'd be all over that trade, but aren't you a bit worried about the Wiz tanking the last few weeks? I tend to avoid players from cellar-dwelling teams for this very reason.

And we're talking about a player that's already playing injured, so it's not like they'll have to convince him (Butler) to sit out.

 

[realsniper09]

Normally I'd be all over that trade, but aren't you a bit worried about the Wiz tanking the last few weeks? I tend to avoid players from cellar-dwelling teams for this very reason.

And we're talking about a player that's already playing injured, so it's not like they'll have to convince him (Butler) to sit out.

The team I have here is strong in STLS, ASSTS, PTS, FT%, FG%.
Untouchable in STLS, ASSTS, and almost untouchable in PTS, FT%

Very weak in BLKS and REBS which is why I traded Yao. Butler was near-perfect fit to have a total overkill in those categories.

I plan to trade Butler on anyway since he has more value than Yao. No one wanted Yao and Butler doesn't have quite the enormous same injury risk tag. He's just got more value.

Oh, I have Nate on that above league also. I love him as a fantasy player at the moment but am finding it hard alone to attach a value to him. Would top 40 value be a stretch??
Stuff Barbosa, he's doing what Ginobili (that is, in 30 mins) does off the bench, and even better this year.

 

[Deledio2Conca]

The team I have here is strong in STLS, ASSTS, PTS, FT%, FG%.
Untouchable in STLS, ASSTS, and almost untouchable in PTS, FT%

Very weak in BLKS and REBS which is why I traded Yao. Butler was near-perfect fit to have a total overkill in those categories.

I plan to trade Butler on anyway since he has more value than Yao. No one wanted Yao and Butler doesn't have quite the enormous same injury risk tag. He's just got more value.

Oh, I have Nate on that above league also. I love him as a fantasy player at the moment but am finding it hard alone to attach a value to him. Would top 40 value be a stretch??
Stuff Barbosa, he's doing what Ginobili (that is, in 30 mins) does off the bench, and even better this year.

40 might be a little stretch for Nate, I reckon about 50-60 would be right.

 

[sirlothie]

This is a ridiculous concept. You cannot focus on 5 of the 9 cats and be competitive against any sort of decent competition.

5 15's in a 16 team league for argument's sake is 75, consequently even a mediocre performance in the remaining 4 categories will have you well in contention for the title. It's not ridiculous at all, in fact it's common practice to try to consolidate your strengths in fantasy basketball. It's obtuse not to.

 

[mdc]

5 15's in a 16 team league for argument's sake is 75, consequently even a mediocre performance in the remaining 4 categories will have you well in contention for the title.

...except that no matter how hard you try, you'll never be able to come close to 5x15 unless you're in a truly terrible league. Your strategy requires everyone else to conveniently leave all the "small-ball" players to you. This won't happen!

That's the no.1 flaw with any sort of restrictive strategy.

For example, the "Draft Dwight and tank FT%" strategy could work if everyone just left the best FT shooters on the board, but this doesn't happen. As a result, this strategy sucks.

Similarly, if you tank any cat, you're essentially narrowing down your field of draftable players exponentially, and are relying on dumb luck for the draft to shape out as you hope.

It's not ridiculous at all, in fact it's common practice to try to consolidate your strengths in fantasy basketball. It's obtuse not to.

Consolidating strength = poor appropriation of resources. Something about law of diminishing returns.

 

[raffrox]

You need to consolidate strengths but thats different to tanking cats.

Even if you get 15 x 5 you'll still need at least an average of 5 across all other cats to top the table.

MOre likely make up of a team in first place in roto is a solid line across the board.

 

[Shaucob_Burjan]

should i do this trade?

I get Iverson, i give up Camby.

h2h keeper league.