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SydneyBomber

SydneyBomber

Norm Smith Medallist
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Apr 28, 2001
Posts
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Location
Sydney
AFL Club
Essendon
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Essendon
You start looking at the fixture for other teams weeks in advance and start working out mathematical possibiities of making the finals...:(

"Yes, we can make it if team x loses to team y etc etc"

I really do hope we at least make it, as long as we don't get absolutely spanked in the first round!

Bias aside, it's an interesting race for the finals isn't it. There hasn't been this much congestion for a few years.

Or maybe there has, I just haven't really noticed 'cos we've been sitting on top for the last few years!
:( :o
 
This year is abit tighter than last year. No pun intended, but last years congestiion was more around the top 4 spots, with carlton and richmond locked together and ourselves and brisbane locked in teh top 2 seperated by %.
 
Originally posted by windyhill
We get there we waste peoples time. Better to go for an early draft pick, like our navy friends.
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Bit of a silly thing to say, when we are 9-9-1. The worst we can be is 9-12-1, which would probably mean 10th.

There's no discernable difference between having the 7th draft pick (10th spot) or 9th draft pick (8th spot.) It's all the same.

The draft never works out how clubs want. Tell me a year when every draft pick ended up a better player than the pick below? It NEVER happens, Johnny.

The draft is overrated. The real evener-upperer is the salary cap. There are good players available at all levels of the draft, if you're astute. I've seen it time and time again. We get the 10th pick, we'd probably pick up the same player who we were going to select with the 7th pick anyway. And even if we do this, is there any guarantee the player will be any good? No. Think of Bolton.

Even though we are no chance for the flag this year, I still want us to fnish as high as possible - as should all Bomber fans. 1st is better than 2nd, 2nd is better than 3rd, 3rd is better than 4th etc etc....... 8th is better than 9th, and 9th is better than 10th, 15th is better than 16th.

The difference in quality of the 7th draft pick, compared to the 10th draft pick is next to nothing. It's always better to be as competitive as possible and finish as high as possible. It gives the fans (and sponsors) value for money, and gives the team confidence. We are a proud club, and part of that is about finishing as high as possible.
 

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Originally posted by Dan26
The draft is overrated. The real evener-upperer is the salary cap.
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Then there's no reason to abolish the father son rule.....after all, if it's the salary cap that does the real job of evening up the competition the odd player taken inder the father son rule isn't going to do any damage is it?

Nice to see you've come around Dan.
 
I don't know what would be worse - making the finals just scraping in on percentage (or in our case by half a game) and being knocked out in the first week by a fair margin, or not making the 8 all together.

Unless you make at least a prelim final, its considered a wasted year, I reckon.

I hope the Bombers make the finals (like all of us), but if we were just making up the numbers, would be a big of a waste of time.

Unless, we play one of the 5-8 sides into some form (like Melbourne) and they go up to Brisbane in a Prelim final and knock 'em off! That'll be worth it!!:D :D
 
Originally posted by Pornstar
I'm with John. Stuff getting into the 8, that's just making up the numbers. Dan is speaking crap, the lower the draft pick the better.
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You're off your rocker if you think getting the 7th pick will allow us a guaranteed better future player than the 10th pick. There's virtually no difference.

We're talking about 17-18 year olds here. There might be one or two standouts, but from 5th-15th-ish, they're all roughly the same, and need time to develop. We picked up the second best young player in the country in late '99 (Ramanuaskas) - he was second only to Haselby and Rama was picked up at number 11!

You're always better off finishing as high as possible.
There are NO guarantees. Don't even be mistaken into thinking that there are guarantees. There are none. If you think there are, you are wrong.

Pornstar, you seem to imply that finishing 10th will be better than 8th because it means we get the 7th pick instead of thr 9th pick. That is lunacy. Getting the 7th pic, instead of the 9th pick isn't going to help. Hell, we'd probably pick up the same player who we were going to select with the 7th pick anyway!

It is always in the best interests to finish as high as possible.
 
Originally posted by Dave


Then there's no reason to abolish the father son rule.....after all, if it's the salary cap that does the real job of evening up the competition the odd player taken inder the father son rule isn't going to do any damage is it?

Nice to see you've come around Dan.
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You are an idiot.
 
Dan you have your opinion and i have mine. Personally i rate finishing 8th and being eliminated in the first final very low on our list of priorities. What the hell does that achieve? I think our players could do with a nice size 12 boot up the anus in the form of finishing 10th and missing out altogether.

Maybe there is very little difference between having the 7th and 10th draft picks. But i think Geelong are pretty happy picking up James Bartel last year at #8. If they had the 10th pick he might have already been gone.
 
Originally posted by Pornstar
Personally i rate finishing 8th and being eliminated in the first final very low on our list of priorities. What the hell does that achieve? I think our players could do with a nice size 12 boot up the anus in the form of finishing 10th and missing out altogether.
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They will receive a boot up the anus for finishing 8th, and being eliminated first up, anyway. The draft is not beneficial to the 8th placed team, as opposed to the 10th placed team. It's virtually the same thing, with the same players available (7th pick compared to 9th pick- BIG DEAL). We're better off finishing 8th because it gives the fans more enjoyment, more wins, and a better season than 10th.

I can't beleive anyone would rather finish 10th than 8th! 10th gains you nothing - at least 8th gets a finals berth, which adds another chapter to the club's history. We have made the finals 58 times (Collingwood have made it 72 times) and every time we make it, is another pround moment for the club to add to the history.

I don't want to add non-finals appearance to the clubs histroy. You're saying it helps to get an earlier draft pick. If you have a look at the draft, there is no discernable advanatage in having a selection 2 picks higher than another team. Unless of course you think that the number 1 pick will always be better than the number 2 pick, who will always be better than the number 3 pick, who will always be better than the number 4 pick etc etc, but it doesn't work that way.

Your Bartel example is largely irrelevant. I could point on several good players who were picked up in the 20-30 pick range, who were better than some players in the top 10.

It's in everyone's best interests that we finish as high as possible. What makes clubs successful Pornstar is not drafting, but developing the players that you draft. No club can select the best 10 players in the country, so it is mainly about developing whoever you have.

We have been very good at this, and hopefully, we will continue to be.

You tell me one club, Pornstar, whose success was dependant on the good play of the number-one draft selection after a wooden spoon year?

Des Headland? No. Brisbane win last year had nothing to do wth picking him up after they got the spoon. Nothing. He was a fringe player in a team that won the flag. They certainly didn't win the flag because they finished last . lol

Travis Johnstone? He's been excellent, but he was not the reason for the climb in 1998 and 2000. There were other reasons for Melbourne's climb in those years.

Josh Fraser? He will be good, but he is NOT the reason for the Magpies climb to 4th in 2002.

Being a successful club is not about your number one selection. it's about having a good balanced list, and that includes having good depth in your second and third round draft selections. Those selections are just as important. The number one pick is only one player out of 40.

Finishing, say 15th, would only give us the number 2 pick. After that it is the number 18 pick (which is only two picsk higher than what the reigning premier would get at number 16.) It only means you get to select one quality player, who is not guaranteed to do anyting anyway. It doesn't help as much as everyone says. After your first selection, our next selection is after what the reigning premiers selects!

There are NO gurantees. We must always aim to finish as high as possible. Always.
 
I must say, I'm with Dan. Not aiming to win games or playing for draft picks is a bigger waste of time than finishing in the eight and being out first week. The day this great and proud club isn't aiming for the finals is the day i stop going. Hird - pick 76 (or 79 or something) and peverill took 4 drafts before being picked up. There is no way you can guarantee that 9th pick is going to be better than 11th.
And remember, finals is a different game and finals experience counts!
 
Originally posted by Merry
I must say, I'm with Dan. Not aiming to win games or playing for draft picks is a bigger waste of time than finishing in the eight and being out first week. The day this great and proud club isn't aiming for the finals is the day i stop going. Hird - pick 76 (or 79 or something) and peverill took 4 drafts before being picked up. There is no way you can guarantee that 9th pick is going to be better than 11th.
And remember, finals is a different game and finals experience counts!
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Exactly.

Aiming to finish 10th rather than, say, 7th is a waste of time and will not guarantee anything for next year. 7th draft pick instead of 10th? Big whoop.
 

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Originally posted by Dan26
You are an idiot.
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Backsliding again Daniel? You've position is rather weak when the only argument you can put up is an insult.....perhaps you should trot on over to fto, your behaviour would fit in pretty well there.
 
Originally posted by Dave


Backsliding again Daniel? You've position is rather weak when the only argument you can put up is an insult.....perhaps you should trot on over to fto, your behaviour would fit in pretty well there.
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LOL. Frontrunner has outlawed it! Poor Wobblers can't take criticism! :p

I'm sounding more like KUD by the minute ... :eek:
 
Originally posted by Pornstar
1997.
#2 Brad Ottens
#4 Mark Bolton

Case closed.
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You're not seriously basing your argument on that are you? I could pull out a dozen examples of later picks being betetr value than earlier picks. We could have picked up Chris Tarrant in that particular draft, but we electd for Bolton.

Let's compare the draft picks of a prospective wooden spooner to a prospective premeir shall we? If you discount the number-one pick for the wooden spooner, the picks for the two teams are:

premier - 16, 32, 48, 64
wooden spooner - 17, 33, 49, 65

All four picks are virtaully the same. The only difference is the wooden spooner gets a pick at number 1. But that is only one player, and will not be the reason for a clubs climb up the ladder. Depth is the most important thing, and selecting quality players all the way through the draft is the key to success. Selecting one player early in the draft when that player is not guaranteed to do anything will not give you a significant advantage.

Hell, if you disregard that number-one pick, the wooden spooner and premier have virtauly the same picks all the way through (eg 16 and 17, 32 and 33 etc etc)

It's not as if Travis Johnstone has saved the Melbourne football club, or anything. They have got more value (or just as much) from Brad Green, who they selected at number 19!!!

I'm telling, you, if you aim to finish low to get draft picks, it will not be the advanatage you think.
 
Originally posted by Pornstar
If you could choose between the 7th pick in the draft and the 10th pick you would take the 7th pick every time. Correct?

Correct.
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Of course- if it was an unconditional choice between the two. It's like saying would you rather $15 or $15.20? Youd take $15.20, even though the difference is marginal.

But if the option was to get the 7th pick, and you had to miss the finals to do it, then no, we wouldn't take it.

Missing the finals is too big a "penalty" just to get a draft pick three spots higher.

7th pick/10th pick....same diff. Roughly the same, with roughly the same quality of player available.
 

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All clubs realise the folly of playing for draft picks instead of trying to play for finals. You don't see Richmond or St.Kilda losing games for draft picks and what would they give for a chance to play finals footy this year?
You can't possibly tell me you would rather see a disinterested Essendon run out and not try to beat Collingwood on Sat night, than a team determined to make finals and giving it a red hot go.
I know who I'll be barracking for come Saturday night!
 
Draft picks LOL.

Originally posted by Dan26

You're not seriously basing your argument on that are you? I could pull out a dozen examples of later picks being betetr value than earlier picks. We could have picked up Chris Tarrant in that particular draft, but we electd for Bolton.
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It seems to me that a number of you have a defeatist attitude about the season. Ok, it has not been Essendon's best and with the list that you have the team has underperformed badly, but talk of draft picks is stupid.

If you look back you might be surprised at were some champions were picked up in the draft James Hird was number 71 if I remember correctly.
 
Originally posted by Dan26
the difference is marginal.
7th pick/10th pick....same diff. Roughly the same, with roughly the same quality of player available.
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Carlton wanted to pick up Rocca in the draft. He went to North at #30, Carlton had pick #31. Missed him by 1. A couple of picks can make a BIG difference.

Just admit you're wrong Dan, you'll feel much better.
 
Originally posted by Pornstar
Carlton wanted to pick up Rocca in the draft. He went to North at #30, Carlton had pick #31. Missed him by 1. A couple of picks can make a BIG difference.

Just admit you're wrong Dan, you'll feel much better.
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They (Carlton) could have picked Rocca up, with any of THREE earlier picks.

Anyone can pick out an example. There are plenty of examples of later picks giving better value than earlier picks. One or two picks difference means nothing.

It's like being offered $100 or $102, but to get $102 you have to finish last. Is it worth it to get an extra 2 bucks, when the penalty is finishing last? No.

There is nothing to justify deliberately losing. Nothing. There are no guarantees in Football, Pornstar.
 
Originally posted by Dan26
There is nothing to justify deliberately losing.
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Never mentioned deliberately losing. But we would be better off for the future if we lost our remaining games, there's no doubt about that. Losing the elimination final may get you rock hard Dan, but it does nothing for me. How many of us have fond memories of Fitroy in 1986? Waste of bloody time.
 

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