Analysis Our forward line - KPF depth?

[BrunoV]

gws have clearly been stocking up for future trade weeks with talls, with the 5-6 tall forwards they have in stock (excluding ruckman who will play forward) i think we should be able to snag one, although this draft is meant to have a lot of good talls, still think its worth trying to snag one of them thats had a couple of years in the system

Think you can put anyone other than Cameron and Franklin, who probably do more at ground level than straight up marking and kicking, into our forward line and it won't change anything. There are types of players who are better suited to helping address the forward woes (hard leading key and mid-sized forwards being the most obvious) but it's the system that needs serious work.

It's not just chemistry between the forwards so that they have some idea of where to lead. We cheat defensively by allowing players to get sucked too high up the ground leaving us with too few options presenting towards the middle of the ground. I think this is might be why we over use the ball at half back (as yaco and others have observed).

It's why we know we need guys like O'Brien and Ambrose though the explanation is not always adequate. It also raises questions about whether our midfielders do work hard enough.

Ultimately the half forward options (mid-sized and key) need to be running 10-15km a match between the middle of the ground and full forward so that we have a connection between half back and half forward (otherwise you're left with one of the 45 shallow entries from a long bomb from the midfield we experienced last year).

It's why Carlisle doesn't make a lot of sense and on exposed form there isn't a lot to change that view. Daniher is too young and doesn't have the fitness (his 30 minute flashes of brilliance at the start of pre-season matches doesn't do much to change this). Winderlich will never be fit enough. You can't ask Bellchambers to do it because he also rucks (and is easily the best option for the long high ball).

It leaves us with part time Goddard/Watson (they'll probably float around too much) and Chapman (who'll not be there each week).

 

[eth-dog]

Those guys are worse players and would be harder to get.

Those guys are worse than a guy who's played 2 games for 1 goal.

 

[Big Fresh]

Those guys are worse than a guy who's played 2 games for 1 goal.

Getting only 2 games in his first season when he's a KPF who's in a team stacked with young KPFs doesn't say much. I'm pretty confident Jaksch will be better than Goldsack.

 

[eth-dog]

Getting only 2 games in his first season when he's a KPF who's in a team stacked with young KPFs doesn't say much. I'm pretty confident Jaksch will be better than Goldsack.

He might be, but Goldsack would fit us so well. Goalscorer, great pressure, smart and good hands. It's a good fit in our forward line

 

[Hartnet]

Think you can put anyone other than Cameron and Franklin, who probably do more at ground level than straight up marking and kicking, into our forward line and it won't change anything. There are types of players who are better suited to helping address the forward woes (hard leading key and mid-sized forwards being the most obvious) but it's the system that needs serious work.

It's not just chemistry between the forwards so that they have some idea of where to lead. We cheat defensively by allowing players to get sucked too high up the ground leaving us with too few options presenting towards the middle of the ground. I think this is might be why we over use the ball at half back (as yaco and others have observed).

It's why we know we need guys like O'Brien and Ambrose though the explanation is not always adequate. It also raises questions about whether our midfielders do work hard enough.

Ultimately the half forward options (mid-sized and key) need to be running 10-15km a match between the middle of the ground and full forward so that we have a connection between half back and half forward (otherwise you're left with one of the 45 shallow entries from a long bomb from the midfield we experienced last year).

It's why Carlisle doesn't make a lot of sense and on exposed form there isn't a lot to change that view. Daniher is too young and doesn't have the fitness (his 30 minute flashes of brilliance at the start of pre-season matches doesn't do much to change this). Winderlich will never be fit enough. You can't ask Bellchambers to do it because he also rucks (and is easily the best option for the long high ball).

It leaves us with part time Goddard/Watson (they'll probably float around too much) and Chapman (who'll not be there each week).

i agree with most of what you've said but i still feel were missing the key forward to play along side daniher, we will always have a resting ruck and Carlisle is wasted as a forward. the type of player we need is nick riewoldt, runs hard all day up and down the ground as you said, has a big fitness base and footy smarts, but sadly not to many of them come around to often.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

He might be, but Goldsack would fit us so well. Goalscorer, great pressure, smart and good hands. It's a good fit in our forward line

I agree.

Will be behind Cloke,Reid in the pecking order.

 

[hurlygurdy]

Think you can put anyone other than Cameron and Franklin, who probably do more at ground level than straight up marking and kicking, into our forward line and it won't change anything. There are types of players who are better suited to helping address the forward woes (hard leading key and mid-sized forwards being the most obvious) but it's the system that needs serious work.

It's not just chemistry between the forwards so that they have some idea of where to lead. We cheat defensively by allowing players to get sucked too high up the ground leaving us with too few options presenting towards the middle of the ground. I think this is might be why we over use the ball at half back (as yaco and others have observed).

It's why we know we need guys like O'Brien and Ambrose though the explanation is not always adequate. It also raises questions about whether our midfielders do work hard enough.

Ultimately the half forward options (mid-sized and key) need to be running 10-15km a match between the middle of the ground and full forward so that we have a connection between half back and half forward (otherwise you're left with one of the 45 shallow entries from a long bomb from the midfield we experienced last year).

It's why Carlisle doesn't make a lot of sense and on exposed form there isn't a lot to change that view. Daniher is too young and doesn't have the fitness (his 30 minute flashes of brilliance at the start of pre-season matches doesn't do much to change this). Winderlich will never be fit enough. You can't ask Bellchambers to do it because he also rucks (and is easily the best option for the long high ball).

It leaves us with part time Goddard/Watson (they'll probably float around too much) and Chapman (who'll not be there each week).

I just think you and many others are jumping at shadows.
Once we get the chemistry you are talking about, we will start to get Carlisle and JD with space and even one on one. Hows that going to pan out for the opposition do you think?
The idea that our midfield doesn't work hard enough is ridiculous imo.
I do think we need that hard leading high HF, and if Licka isn't there to do it then most likely it has to be Goddard. Fingers crossed we get lucky and NOB or even Ambrose take the required step this season. If not then we need to cover the loss of Goddard in the middle, but there are multiple options for doing that given the abundance of players we now have who can play a role in the midfield. It will be very interesting to see what Pig can do in the midfield for example. Hard to face losing him from the defense, but he could be anything if given license to roam. Brownlow 2015 anyone?

 

[Big Fresh]

Tim Membrey's another potential recruit to consider. Kicked a lot of goals in the NEAFL last season, is out of contract at the end of this season, and I could see plenty of players leaving Sydney over the next few years.

 

[Howard Moon]

not every great team has a functining fwd line! sometimes you play the cards your dealt with and play to your strengths.

Geelongs great sides had a player of debatable quality in Mooney, with a load of classy smaller types swinging through there (SJ Bartel Stokes chappy ect). Mooney did straighten them up but it would be hard to call their fwd line a1 functional, it was alot of structure and proper midfield movement maybe.

for memory WCE did their flag winning on the back of a no star fwd line and midfield goals, hansen and gardiner hardly a blockbusting duo.

So if we dont quite yet have the fwd cattle what do we do? play to our strengths, what are they? you'd probably say rapid rebound out of defence maybe. If this is the case and we are coming in helter skelter at speed, if the upground leader isnt used first up it should be opened out for the mid sized runners to lead back in on goal. nearly pagans paddock style.

I know its not ideal, but until we can get JD/Jake up to speed or the gut running leader, its what we have at our disposal.

We want jake to be buckets with the strong lead and the mark but he nearly seems more comfortable when the balls on the deck weirdly enough.

Whether we have recognised our weakness, and tried to negate it by using the pockets and forcing a 50/50 stoppage who knows? But we have to look at our strengths and use them.

 

[Ben the Gooner]

5 goals and one from a mark. This is unsustainable for a key forward. He needs to mark the ball.

What are you referring to with these stats?

 

[Ben the Gooner]

Do we really need to think about trading in ******* shite forwards before Rd 1?

 

[hurlygurdy]

Do we really need to think about trading in ******* shite forwards before Rd 1?

Agreed. Rubbish trend to the thread.
Mind you, everything else has been said already and we are still more than a week out god damn it!

 

[Ben the Gooner]

Let's just laugh at Collingwood being unable to score more than 60-70 points tomorrow night.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Let's just laugh at Collingwood being unable to score more than 60-70 points tomorrow night.

Hahah true wonder if Freo will bring that same maniac defensive pressure like we saw when they played the Swans in the pre lim.

 

[eth-dog]

Sandilands to get 60 hitouts

 

[Ben the Gooner]

Ross Lyon + Etihad + mediocre forwardline (will be a few outs) = no score.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Sandilands to get 60 hitouts

Bucks should tell his mid group to feed of his hit outs.

 

[eth-dog]

Bucks should tell his mid group to feed of his hit outs.

Ahead of Mundy, Barlow, Fyfe and co with Crowley stopping Swan/Pendles? Dreaming

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Ahead of Mundy, Barlow, Fyfe and co with Crowley stopping Swan/Pendles? Dreaming

Just have other players blocking and sheparding but your right break even would be a good result.

 

[yaco55]

Can you tell Buddy and Roughead that.

Buddy is a different kettle of fish because of his unique rate of talents. You are telling me that Roughead got 20% of his goals from marks ?

 

[yaco55]

Jaksch is a good player, but the one from GWS would have to be Tomlinson. He's already showed the workrate of Hurley as well as good hands and a pretty good kick. With Patton/Cameron/Boyd, could be on the way out

If you get the defensive gameplan and defense set you can bank on it and work on your forward line. If you instill the discipline first you know that it'll stay there, if you go the reverse, the defence may always be suspect.

Tomlinson is the one. I suspect he may be unobtainable or will command a high draft pick.

 

[yaco55]

Goldsack would be the #1 target for me out of those, due to his flexibility to play in defence as well, and his better pressure and experience adds to the forward line

Goldsack is a very average player and will have limited value in Essendon's team.

 

[yaco55]

What are you referring to with these stats?

Carlisle has kicked 5 goals in two games - Which is a decent result - Four have come from ground balls/snaps - Good key forwards get 50 to 70% of their goals from marks. Marks is your bread and butter - Snaps and the like are the icing on the cake.

 

[Ben the Gooner]

Carlisle has kicked 5 goals in two games - Which is a decent result - Four have come from ground balls/snaps - Good key forwards get 50 to 70% of their goals from marks. Marks is your bread and butter - Snaps and the like are the icing on the cake.

Are you referring to a pre-season including a game where it was so dewy it was analogous to wet weather footy?

I'd be pretty stoked with 2.5 goals per game (55 goals) out of Carlisle.

 

[rines]

Are you referring to a pre-season including a game where it was so dewy it was analogous to wet weather footy?

I'd be pretty stoked with 2.5 goals per game (55 goals) out of Carlisle.

I don't care how he kicks them.. you are spot on.. if he can kick 2+ goals every game for us.. then we will do OK..