Opinion Butcher

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finbarr said:
Everyone feels for Butch and wants him to do well. But trying to turn him into a second ruck or a defender seems like shoehorning him into a role just for the sake of finding something for him to do. He either makes it as a key forward or he doesn't make it at all. Let's hope he has a year out of the box in 2015.
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It doesn't even make sense considering our needs. We've got more good key backs than you can poke a stick at and we've already got Westy and Trengove in the pseudo-ruck back up role.

He was drafted as a key forward. We need a key forward.

We shouldn't be going all Nick Salter on his arse.
 
Pappagallo said:
It doesn't even make sense considering our needs. We've got more good key backs than you can poke a stick at and we've already got Westy and Trengove in the pseudo-ruck back up role.

He was drafted as a key forward. We need a key forward.

We shouldn't be going all Nick Salter on his arse.
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The last thing we need on the last line of defence is a "confidence player".
 

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Pappagallo said:
It doesn't even make sense considering our needs. We've got more good key backs than you can poke a stick at and we've already got Westy and Trengove in the pseudo-ruck back up role.

He was drafted as a key forward. We need a key forward.

We shouldn't be going all Nick Salter on his arse.
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Just interested who are these good keybacks you are talking about in relation to depth. We've got clurey annnnd...........?
 
x_les_x said:
Just interested who are these good keybacks you are talking about in relation to depth. We've got clurey annnnd...........?
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Well assuming all of Bobby, Jacko, Jonas and Hombsch are all first 22 we have O'Shea and Clurey as genuine KPD depth. That's enough considering that Westy often wanders in as back up.

We have Schulz and Westoff, once again playing as a part timer, as genuine KPF's. We have no depth as evidenced by Jake Neade playing full forward on occasion.

We need Butcher in front of the sticks.
 
Pappagallo said:
Well assuming all of Bobby, Jacko, Jonas and Hombsch are all first 22 we have O'Shea and Clurey as genuine KPD depth. That's enough considering that Westy often wanders in as back up.

We have Schulz and Westoff, once again playing as a part timer, as genuine KPF's. We have no depth as evidenced by Jake Neade playing full forward on occasion.

We need Butcher in front of the sticks.
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Jonas and O'Shea arent KPD's. They can do a short term job on 3rd talls or fill in at a crisis but you dont want either of them having to play 10 weeks in a row on the 195cm+/100kgs+ gorillas.
 
Pappagallo said:
Well assuming all of Bobby, Jacko, Jonas and Hombsch are all first 22 we have O'Shea and Clurey as genuine KPD depth. That's enough considering that Westy often wanders in as back up.

We have Schulz and Westoff, once again playing as a part timer, as genuine KPF's. We have no depth as evidenced by Jake Neade playing full forward on occasion.

We need Butcher in front of the sticks.
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O'Shea is not a key defender end of story. he is a flanker who can play roles on smalls-mediums has no chance against any big body tall forward. Rewatch the west coast game, pay attention in particular how he went against darling then tell me he is a genuine kpd. You say that's enough but who else is there in the case that one or both of them get injured? You don't win premierships with 2 kpd as depth

We do have more depth forward than back in Shaw and Harvey the reason why neade got games ahead of them; they were, in the views of the coaches and selection panel staff simply not ready. Shaw was an emergency a couple of times and was described as psychologically frail to play an afl game. Harvey was in his first season still building his endurance base which was his main knock. It didn't help he was forced to play ruck however we should recruit a ruckman in this years draft/s maximising his time forward and giving him the best chance to play afl football in season 2015. I would not be surprised if mason overtakes butcher this year
 
RussellEbertHandball said:
Jonas and O'Shea arent KPD's. They can do a short term job on 3rd talls or fill in at a crisis but you dont want either of them having to play 10 weeks in a row on the 195cm+/100kgs+ gorillas.
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I'd trust Jonas to hold his own. I agree O'Shea would struggle but he is a good option for the 3rd tall as you mentioned (and as 3rd man in).

Both are much better defensive options than Butcher because he is too lean and he would rate a 9.5 on the Ben Jacobs Nightmare Kick Out Of Defence Scale.
 
x_les_x said:
O'Shea is not a key defender end of story. he is a flanker who can play roles on smalls-mediums has no chance against any big body tall forward. Rewatch the west coast game, pay attention in particular how he went against darling then tell me he is a genuine kpd. You say that's enough but who else is there in the case that one or both of them get injured? You don't win premierships with 2 kpd as depth

We do have more depth forward than back in Shaw and Harvey the reason why neade got games ahead of them; they were, in the views of the coaches and selection panel staff simply not ready. Shaw was an emergency a couple of times and was described as psychologically frail to play an afl game. Harvey was in his first season still building his endurance base which was his main knock. It didn't help he was forced to play ruck however we should recruit a ruckman in this years draft/s maximising his time forward and giving him the best chance to play afl football in season 2015. I would not be surprised if mason overtakes butcher this year
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Admittably O'Shea is not big enough to be a full time KPD, but Butcher is in the same boat physically (yes he has more height but he is lanky - not a full time KPD either) and he is sans confidence and accurate kicking. O'Shea is much better suited in that area of the ground especially due to his running ability.

Last season Shaw and Harvey were barely in the conversation, so I don't see how we can have more forward depth. We have one first 22 KPF in Schulz, and three first 22 KPD's in Bobby, Jacko and Hombsch (I think Jonas punches above his weight but I'll leave him out of it). So on the field our KPD's are already much better stocked, and the forward cavalry is pretty thin. Currently if Schulz goes down we either go with Butcher, gamble on the two greenhorns or revert to the mosquito fleet set-up.

Personally I'm not keen on sacrificing the Butcher option when looking at the other two.
 
Just watching the round 2 Showdown and I must say on keeping my eye on Butch, I think he had a pretty good game. Clean pickups at his feet, quick hands and he presented and competed. There is something there, God I hope we can see it this year.
 

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AdsGoNads said:
Didn't he get a double hip Reco. a couple of years ago?

I just can't believe he has made it to AFL level with such a bad kicking technique.. I'd like to see his Draft combine kicking scores..

He'res hoping 2015 is a break out year for Butch, but odds are clearly stacked against him.. :oops:
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Watch his draft highlights video. His goal kicking technique is fine. It's what gives me hope he can still make it. I think it's a case of the double hip surgery ruined his technique and balance totally, but then the yips developed on the back of that and is now the main problem.

Pappagallo said:
Admittably O'Shea is not big enough to be a full time KPD, but Butcher is in the same boat physically (yes he has more height but he is lanky - not a full time KPD either) and he is sans confidence and accurate kicking. O'Shea is much better suited in that area of the ground especially due to his running ability.

Last season Shaw and Harvey were barely in the conversation, so I don't see how we can have more forward depth. We have one first 22 KPF in Schulz, and three first 22 KPD's in Bobby, Jacko and Hombsch (I think Jonas punches above his weight but I'll leave him out of it). So on the field our KPD's are already much better stocked, and the forward cavalry is pretty thin. Currently if Schulz goes down we either go with Butcher, gamble on the two greenhorns or revert to the mosquito fleet set-up.

Personally I'm not keen on sacrificing the Butcher option when looking at the other two.
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Depends which threads you were reading last year.
 
The thing with butcher is that it's ONLY his kicking. He does know how to kick goals, even if some of them are gimmes.

His kicking is the one obviously. But I do believe once he gets it to a reasonable standard, we will have a very good player on our hands
 
still holding hope he is a late bloomer, common amongst bigger lads sometimes
 
Wargreymon90 said:
The thing with butcher is that it's ONLY his kicking. He does know how to kick goals, even if some of them are gimmes.

His kicking is the one obviously. But I do believe once he gets it to a reasonable standard, we will have a very good player on our hands
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More than kicking. He needs to work on his leads and timing. Needs to build upper body strength as well. Also if his SANFL is to go by, hell even the Showdown, he needs to play more like a tall rather than a small.

His contested marking is good.

The odd thing was that in 2011 his leading was pretty close to perfection. Repeated efforts and leads gave him lots of opportunities in a horrid side.
 
I maintain that if you hypnotised him and told him that he was a gun AFL forward he'd be a gun AFL forward. He has all the tools, he's just plays like someone who needs a confidence injection.

I would be letting him off the reigns early on this season and just telling him to go out there and smash some packs and just play footy. Don't burden him too much. Just tell him to go. Sometimes getting your confidence back is just about having fun and remembering why you play the game.
 
Cripps just confirmed on 5AA that Butch hasn't had a full Pre-Season yet and has taken time to correct some major injuries, comparing him to Robbie.

But.. also noted that his 'grace' period for him to get his body right is running out..
 
AdsGoNads said:
Cripps just confirmed on 5AA that Butch hasn't had a full Pre-Season yet and has taken time to correct some major injuries, comparing him to Robbie.

But.. also noted that his 'grace' period for him to get his body right is running out..
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But.. also noted that his 'grace' period for him to get his body right is running out..

Stating the obvious here dont want to put any unnecessary pressure on the guy but unfortunately time is ticking for him.

Our assault on the flag would receive a major boost if this guy turns up and plays some good footy but im not holding my breathe.
 
AdsGoNads said:
Cripps just confirmed on 5AA that Butch hasn't had a full Pre-Season yet and has taken time to correct some major injuries, comparing him to Robbie.

But.. also noted that his 'grace' period for him to get his body right is running out..
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Wait so is he injury/operation free this pre season?
 
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