NFL Tom Brady, Bill Belichick - Greatest of All Time?

[Dirty Bird]

After the conclusion of the game yesterday, ESPN had a poll for both of them, asking if they were 1, 2, 3, 4-5, not in the top 5.

For both, the most common response was yes, both are the greatest of all time in their position. I was just wondering what BigFooty thinks.

I for one went with yes, Tom Brady is the greatest of all time, but I voted Belichick #2 (behind Paul Brown obviously...)

 

[imadodgyumpire]

Oh God. Yesterday was bad enough. Now I have to wake up to this?

 

[Bluelegs]

Yep. Greatest cheating coach/quarterback duo ever.

 

[crownie]

Just don't get the logic that a play Brady had no involvement in decides if he is the best or not.

 

[Dirty Bird]

Just don't get the logic that a play Brady had no involvement in decides if he is the best or not.

Because without his play before hand the pats aren't even in a position to win in the first place?

 

[crownie]

Because without his play before hand the pats aren't even in a position to win in the first place?

The 2 picks that kept the Seahawks in the game?

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

They were the greatest duo a long time ago

 

[Chewy316]

There are a number of coaches who I would place above BB, with Vince Lombardi being at the top of the list. As for the QB, some people are saying he's the greatest because he won 4 Super Bowls, but the reality of it is that the first few years of his career in the league, he wasn't the reason the Patriots were winning Super Bowls. The D they had back a dozen years ago was ridiculously phenomenal. BB really gave the keys to Brady to open up the offense in the spread from 2007, when they acquired Randy Moss. That's when, imo, Brady truly became the "franchise QB," up until then I would argue that you could have plugged in a number of average QBs and won Super Bowls with that running game and D that the Patriots had in the early 2000s. In the last 10 years he's won just the one Super Bowl which was from yesterday, as the franchise guy. Great QB? Yes, without a doubt. But the GOAT? No way.

Have to also take in to account spygate, and potentially deflategate. Even if you take deflategate out of the picture, spygate occurred for nearly a decade, and they conveniently won 3 Super Bowls during that time. Hard to say that the figureheads of the organisation that is best known for cheating, can be considered the greatest of all time, regardless of their achievements.

 

[rumply]

I'm with chewy,

No to both, but they could win a couple more & then it would be hard to argue that they are both not goats

 

[Indie_]

There are a number of coaches who I would place above BB, with Vince Lombardi being at the top of the list. As for the QB, some people are saying he's the greatest because he won 4 Super Bowls, but the reality of it is that the first few years of his career in the league, he wasn't the reason the Patriots were winning Super Bowls. The D they had back a dozen years ago was ridiculously phenomenal. BB really gave the keys to Brady to open up the offense in the spread from 2007, when they acquired Randy Moss. That's when, imo, Brady truly became the "franchise QB," up until then I would argue that you could have plugged in a number of average QBs and won Super Bowls with that running game and D that the Patriots had in the early 2000s. In the last 10 years he's won just the one Super Bowl which was from yesterday, as the franchise guy. Great QB? Yes, without a doubt. But the GOAT? No way.

Have to also take in to account spygate, and potentially deflategate. Even if you take deflategate out of the picture, spygate occurred for nearly a decade, and they conveniently won 3 Super Bowls during that time. Hard to say that the figureheads of the organisation that is best known for cheating, can be considered the greatest of all time, regardless of their achievements.

Fairly sure that what were doing was legal until they changed the rule in 2006 season. I could be wrong, but I think that's the case.

 

[fuey]

Belichick is a better coach than Brady is a QB.

The gameplan was perfect for the Seahawks, both offensively and defensively.

But Brady didn't do anything yesterday that 99% of the league couldn't do.

 

[MarcusP2]

Just don't get the logic that a play Brady had no involvement in decides if he is the best or not.

Agreed.

Brady played pretty well, but threw two picks and could've lost the game. Great display in the 4th quarter. However I don't think this game changes my opinion of him at all. He was already top 3-5 and I don't think an extra Super Bowl title changes my opinion of him as a QB (considering he's been a much better QB in years they HAVEN'T won.)

Belichick's total dominance with any personnel, any type of opponent, any field...he has to be right up there though.

 

[Woodson]

Belichick is a better coach than Brady is a QB.

The gameplan was perfect for the Seahawks, both offensively and defensively.

But Brady didn't do anything yesterday that 99% of the league couldn't do.

Heaps of check-downs. Brady occasionally breaks thru to make a scramble with some courage but when it comes to take on/ shake off tacklers (read: extend the play)… doesn't rate in that dept. Solid and consistent. That's all you can say.

 

[Galactic]

"Just sayin!"

 

[Exe Gesis]

Everyone still hasn't learned Marino is the greatest QB ever and that will never change.

Super Bowls are won by teams....Thought we also learned this already.

I will say belichick is one of the all time greats tho, regardless of all the cheating. He has achieved a level of sustained success that is hard to argue with, especially in this era of revolving door of players that is the free agency Era, compared to the Walsh, Landry, Lombardi, Brown eras when you could hold onto star studded teams for decades.

He's such a gamer of the game itself, innovator. He managed an 11-5 season with what's his face showing how much it's a system, Brady a system qb like Montana.

Walsh, belichick, Landry, brown, halas, Lombardi, shula, etc all on a same sphere of greatness imo as they all were similarly seminal and iconic.

 

[Broken]

I will say belichick is one of the all time greats tho, regardless of all the cheating. He has achieved a level of sustained success that is hard to argue with, especially in this era of revolving door of players that is the free agency Era, compared to the Walsh, Landry, Lombardi, Brown eras when you could hold onto star studded teams for decades.

This is the clincher for me, how the Patriots have managed such a sustained level of winning in the salary cap era. Nobody comes close to Belichick, possibly Cowher, in regards to constantly reinventing his teams and getting the most out of his roster year in year out during his time.
Maybe I'm more in awe of his feats in comparison to my own team, but it's impressed me.

As for Brady, when the game flashed up that he had surpassed Montanas records I was thinking "Yeah but it's 6 Superbowls to 4" Montana admittedly did have a stronger supporting cast and the Seahawks fans in the Superbowl thread were genuinely afraid of what Brady could do in that 4th quarter, so you've got to respect that too. It's another one of these eye of the beholder arguments.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Funny how the only time the 'system' missed the playoffs is when Brady missed nearly the whole season.

I'd rate Brady one of the greatest ever, not sure about actual GOAT. He's won bowls with lesser offensive talent.

Belichick is the greatest coach ever. Not only coached during FA but with a cap. 6 Bowls and was a key part of Parcells' success with the Giants.

 

[imadodgyumpire]

This is the clincher for me, how the Patriots have managed such a sustained level of winning in the salary cap era. Nobody comes close to Belichick, possibly Cowher, in regards to constantly reinventing his teams and getting the most out of his roster year in year out during his time.
Maybe I'm more in awe of his feats in comparison to my own team, but it's impressed me.

As for Brady, when the game flashed up that he had surpassed Montanas records I was thinking "Yeah but it's 6 Superbowls to 4" Montana admittedly did have a stronger supporting cast and the Seahawks fans in the Superbowl thread were genuinely afraid of what Brady could do in that 4th quarter, so you've got to respect that too. It's another one of these eye of the beholder arguments.

Is there a factor you haven't yet accounted for in this post?

 

[Broken]

Is there a factor you haven't yet accounted for in this post?

*insert-gate here?*

 

[imadodgyumpire]

Not that.

 

[BomberWatson]

Funny how the only time the 'system' missed the playoffs is when Brady missed nearly the whole season.

I'd rate Brady one of the greatest ever, not sure about actual GOAT. He's won bowls with lesser offensive talent.

Belichick is the greatest coach ever. Not only coached during FA but with a cap. 6 Bowls and was a key part of Parcells' success with the Giants.

Funny how they won more games the season he was out (2008) than the season when he returned (2009).

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Funny how they won more games the season he was out (2008) than the season when he returned (2009).

Only beat one team with a winning record in '08. I'm sure Brady has done better than that every year.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Is there a factor you haven't yet accounted for in this post?

They kicked the Panthers arse?

 

[BomberWatson]

Only beat one team with a winning record in '08. I'm sure Brady has done better than that every year.

They beat 3 teams with winning records in 08, the same amount as they did in 09. They also won more than 1 road game in 08, unlike 09.

 

[Exe Gesis]

Marino is the answer