Moore and Freeman - time is not for conservative selection

[ClaytonM]

Also people are only advocating the youth who are showing form or who showed form off last season (but didn't get a go Karnexzis, Kennedy etc even then they expect them to play well in vfl bfr call up), no one has asked we switch our VFL team in for the AFL side or play struggling kids.

The thread is titled Moore and Freeman. Not Kennedy and Karnezis. Given our lack of midfield experience at the moment I would be looking at Dwyer for experience to replace Sinclair. I would also be looking at one of Gault or Karnezis to replace Goldy up front who should become part of the defensive rotations to add experience. Let Moore and Freeman at least play a few games of VFL before promoting them to the seniors.

We need to accelerate the top end talent as much as possible/practicable as we can unless they are truly struggling with the step up.

Moore and Freeman can learn plenty in the VFL at this point in time. They will not be accelerated any more this weekend if they play in the AFL. They may actually learn less because their AFL role would probably be diminished compared to what they would have in the VFL. Moore also gets to play along side Reid which might just be better for his development. .

 

[ClaytonM]

Paige saying her Source is Maxwell so I don’t know IF I am 100% True.

Having Moore and Freeman Debut. Kind of reminds me when Dawes and McCarthy Debuted.

Be very interesting where we play Moore

One hopes they turn out to be in a different class to Dawes and McCarthy(RIP).

 

[TradeDraft]

One hopes they turn out to be in a different class to Dawes and McCarthy(RIP).

Well McCarthy(RIP) was a 3rd Round Pick and Dawes was 2nd Round Pick.

Where Freeman and Moore are 9th and 10th Overall Picks

 

[Apex36]

The thread is titled Moore and Freeman. Not Kennedy and Karnezis. Given our lack of midfield experience at the moment I would be looking at Dwyer for experience to replace Sinclair. I would also be looking at one of Gault or Karnezis to replace Goldy up front who should become part of the defensive rotations to add experience. Let Moore and Freeman at least play a few games of VFL before promoting them to the seniors.



Moore and Freeman can learn plenty in the VFL at this point in time. They will not be accelerated any more this weekend if they play in the AFL. They may actually learn less because their AFL role would probably be diminished compared to what they would have in the VFL. Moore also gets to play along side Reid which might just be better for his development. .

Whilst I agree with the premise of not gifting games to kids, if the coaching staff deem them ready, I'm all for having Freeman and Moore debut. The argument of them learning less than they would in the VFL is tripe. Their roles may or may not be diminished, but gaining experience in what it takes to play at the higher intensity of AFL will be invaluable for them. Even if they get dropped the next week, they'll be able to go back and apply what they've learned in the seniors to their game back in the twos.

 

[ClaytonM]

Whilst I agree with the premise of not gifting games to kids, if the coaching staff deem them ready, I'm all for having Freeman and Moore debut. The argument of them learning less than they would in the VFL is tripe. Their roles may or may not be diminished, but gaining experience in what it takes to play at the higher intensity of AFL will be invaluable for them. Even if they get dropped the next week, they'll be able to go back and apply what they've learned in the seniors to their game back in the twos.

I am not arguing that AFL experience would not provide valuable learning, but it is not necessarily the most importance learning for them at this point in time. Learning the role they will be expected to play when promoted may be more important than running around in the AFL half educated on what they are expected to do. If they are truly ready then I am all for playing them, but they still may have much to learn before they get the best outcomes from their first AFL experience. Moore playing along side Reid to see how he plays CHB may be more valuable to him than actually playing AFL this week.

I will be delighted if they get a game because I will assume the club thinks they are ready, but the 'play them cause we can' mentality is wrong.

 

[TradeDraft]

Whilst I agree with the premise of not gifting games to kids, if the coaching staff deem them ready, I'm all for having Freeman and Moore debut. The argument of them learning less than they would in the VFL is tripe. Their roles may or may not be diminished, but gaining experience in what it takes to play at the higher intensity of AFL will be invaluable for them. Even if they get dropped the next week, they'll be able to go back and apply what they've learned in the seniors to their game back in the twos.

Agree 100%. Even IF they don’t have the Bests of Games and back in the VFL the next week. They would know what it is like to play AFL..

Moore’s last 2 games have Definitely been good enough to get a Call Up and Freeman has been good in those games as well.

Plus the Saints have a lot of Kids so a good way to come in

 

[PieLebo87]

The time-waster, Samantha Lane, asked silly questions in the Round 1 post-game conference re why De Goey was used as the sub, and how people wanted to see him blooded for a full game, and Buckley answered, explaining how he wasn't able to run out the full game, thus the reason why he was given the sub vest. She kept going on about it, and he just kept trying to explain in different ways that the kid just wasn't ready to play a full game of football yet.

This is similar in a sense.

Just because a club is in a re-building stage, doesn't mean you just play kids, for the sake of playing kids to get them experience. Thats just not how it works.

From a fans perspective, we want to see Freeman, Moore, Kennedy, Shaz and co all playing, but that is just a silly logic, because they have to be ready, and able to play 4 quarters. The jump up from playing VFL to AFL is massive, and as a supporter, I don't want to see us getting pummeled for the sake of these kids getting a game, and playing 3 quarters because thats all they can handle.

Have some faith in the selection committee and be patient. Just because Jordan De Goey went in the top 10, doesn't mean he will be ready for Round 1. Just because someone else is playing from Round 1, doesn't mean every other earlier draft pick is ready to go and should be playing.

If Freeman, or Moore can handle 4 quarters of AFL footy, and they're performing in the VFL, they'll be called up. Simple.

 

[Jedi01]

Pendlebury, Beams, Thomas, Cloke all came in and played in there first years, most 10+ games and they turned out alright.

This current mind set the football club seems to be have of VFL first is not working.

They talked up Freeman all preseason, he should have been in Rd1.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

I'm in the camp of throw them in the deep end. If they have the talent they will survive and be better for it in the long run. The club will go through some pain but this will stand us in good stead in the long run. I think we should back our recruitment staff who have brought these players to the club for a reason and our development resources to get any player through this period. I don't buy the "theory" that it sets a players development back by introducing them early.

Enough of the hacks who cant kick - I want to see the talent! C'mon PIES lets do it

In the case of Freeman, I"m amazed he isn't starting. Especially with Steele out.

He's CLEARLY got the body already and his fitness levels is top tier at the club. They wouldn't have used pick 10 on him if the talent wasn't here, he's over his hamstring, so he should be in.

 

[coolcarlito]

I am not sure about Freeman, but I would like to see Moore play. IMO, Moore is the best available backman at this stage. Can kick and he is smart. Just let him playing on relatively easy opponent.

 

[pablo disco bar]

JUST PLAY THEM!!

 

[domin8tors]

LOL
like many I would love to see Moore, Freeman and the likes to be playing. and I don't think it's a talent issue. Moore came off no preseason. and Freeman hasn't played serious footy ( VFL has been practice matches ) for two years. I can gurantee that the same people that are calling for Buckley and why he doesn't play kids etc. will be the same people that complain as soon as one of these two breaks down with no match conditioning.

 

[TradeDraft]

LOL
like many I would love to see Moore, Freeman and the likes to be playing. and I don't think it's a talent issue. Moore came off no preseason. and Freeman hasn't played serious footy ( VFL has been practice matches ) for two years. I can gurantee that the same people that are calling for Buckley and why he doesn't play kids etc. will be the same people that complain as soon as one of these two breaks down with no match conditioning.

Moore had some pre-season. Did all Pre-Christmas stuff and then came back around Practise Game Time

 

[MagpieBat]

They did when they were rebuilding all the way back when 02/03/04/05 etc, ie the same stage we are in the did in fact blood and play a lot of kids. Both Hawks and Geelongs success' came off the back of playing the kids when they had major rebuilds early to mid 00s.

Sydney doesn't need to blood youth when they can buy developed players most years also Heeney is getting a game from out of the blocks how much 2nds footy did he play before getting a perma 22 spot eh? So they also do it when it pleases.

Indeed. IIRC, Selwood never played a game in the VFL in his first year. Played seniors from the get-go and won a flag in his maiden season. And took the Rising Star, to boot.

It's not unprecedented for good teams to play their draftees from the very start and have them become best 22 early on.

However, we are not a good team, so the need to play our youth is bigger.

They don't even have to play 20 games this year. Even 5-10 or thereabouts would be good enough, with plenty of VFL time in between to put the lessons of that senior exposure into practice refining their games. Even just the lesson of 'this is the level you have bring yourself up to if you want to survive in this caper' would be worth its weight in gold, and none of our early picks seem the type of mentally weak flakes that Watts is/was (even then, Watts suffered because he was developing in a club with literally no senior veteran leadership).

 

[TradeDraft]

Indeed. IIRC, Selwood never played a game in the VFL in his first year. Played seniors from the get-go and won a flag in his maiden season. And took the Rising Star, to boot.

It's not unprecedented for good teams to play their draftees from the very start and have them become best 22 early on.

However, we are not a good team, so the need to play our youth is bigger.

They don't even have to play 20 games this year. Even 5-10 or thereabouts would be good enough, with plenty of VFL time in between to put the lessons of that senior exposure into practice refining their games. Even just the lesson of 'this is the level you have bring yourself up to if you want to survive in this caper' would be worth its weight in gold, and none of our early picks seem the type of mentally weak flakes that Watts is/was (even then, Watts suffered because he was developing in a club with literally no senior veteran leadership).

That is very well said and Be a Good Plan to do with the Kids.

Agree - All the Top Picks seem to be Strong Mentally which Watts is not even close to Mentally Strong

 

[JB1975]

Freeman played (almost) no football at all last year, and a few passable games in VFL practice matches don't suggest that he's ready for bigger things just yet. He's physically fit and he's good a great attitude to getting the best out of himself, but in my opinion he's too scratchy to be of use in the AFL. Let him get some touch and confidence.

Moore's an interesting one. He just seems like one of those players who will rise to the next level no matter what the occasion. He's played the two VFL practice matches and already his form almost demands a senior spot. I have some reservations about selecting players in desperation, and I'd frankly be relieved in they held Moore back for a bit longer, but I can't help but think that he'd also be able to contribute if we did put him in this week. If that happens, maybe he can go back while Goldy goes forward?

 

[TradeDraft]

Freeman played (almost) no football at all last year, and a few passable games in VFL practice matches don't suggest that he's ready for bigger things just yet. He's physically fit and he's good a great attitude to getting the best out of himself, but in my opinion he's too scratchy to be of use in the AFL. Let him get some touch and confidence.

Moore's an interesting one. He just seems like one of those players who will rise to the next level no matter what the occasion. He's played the two VFL practice matches and already his form almost demands a senior spot. I have some reservations about selecting players in desperation, and I'd frankly be relieved in they held Moore back for a bit longer, but I can't help but think that he'd also be able to contribute if we did put him in this week. If that happens, maybe he can go back while Goldy goes forward?

Why would Selecting Moore be Desperation when he been playing so well?.

Well with Pendles and Adams looking unlikely we don’t have much other Choices really to go to

 

[JB1975]

Why would Selecting Moore be Desperation when he been playing so well?.

Well with Pendles and Adams looking unlikely we don’t have much other Choices really to go to

I don't think it would be pure desperation, Dave. I was stating a general concern about clubs which might toss in players of the future just to provide some vague sort of 'spark', or to give the fans a sense of progress in dark times. I know that Moore's been playing well and I trust that the club won't play him unless he's up for it.

 

[Mateyman]

Keep playing the best team. Don't see what has massively changed from this time last year when we eventually ended up 9-2 before it all going down the gurgler. I think we should be targetting the top 8, whilst still playing the kids, but no need to flick the switch to all kids, already playing a lot. Would be good to phase them in over the year as they are ready.

 

[Mugavin]

Average selections again.

 

[Black Prince]

Why would Selecting Moore be Desperation when he been playing so well?.

Well with Pendles and Adams looking unlikely we don’t have much other Choices really to go to

The sooner we get Moore in the better . He has performed very well and although young has tremendous leadership qualities ,will lift players around him. Personally would like to see him as the 3rd tall up forward and the saints would be an ideal game to make a debut .

 

[Maggie5]

Moore had some pre-season. Did all Pre-Christmas stuff and then came back around Practise Game Time

No he had the foot problem and didn't really train for about 4 weeks.

 

[ace andy]

Indeed. IIRC, Selwood never played a game in the VFL in his first year. Played seniors from the get-go and won a flag in his maiden season. And took the Rising Star, to boot.

It's not unprecedented for good teams to play their draftees from the very start and have them become best 22 early on.

However, we are not a good team, so the need to play our youth is bigger.

They don't even have to play 20 games this year. Even 5-10 or thereabouts would be good enough, with plenty of VFL time in between to put the lessons of that senior exposure into practice refining their games. Even just the lesson of 'this is the level you have bring yourself up to if you want to survive in this caper' would be worth its weight in gold, and none of our early picks seem the type of mentally weak flakes that Watts is/was (even then, Watts suffered because he was developing in a club with literally no senior veteran leadership).

Gee I wonder why? Maybe because selwood was actually a very good performer in his first year? If freeman and De Goey play like selwood in there first few games they can play all year. Bit different to handing out games to players who can't even force there way into a crap side.

I'm not against players like Freeman being in the side. Just don't want him given a game because supporters want a new toy to play with. If Freeman was 25 should he get a game? If yes play him otherwise no.

 

[Harry O]

The insinuation that playing Freeman and Moore would be gifting the games is funny. Their form has been excellent for last few weeks.
If anyone is being gifted games, it would be incumbents like Goldsack and Varcoe.

 

[jackcass]

Broomhead
Crisp
Langdon
Oxley
Frost
Grundy
Ramsay

Were all young/inexperienced kids playing on the weekend.

Add Williams, Gault, Seedsman, Dwyer, and Adams to the list of <50 gamers who'll run out tomorrow. Not to mention all 3 emergencies. And I'd still rather see Freeman than Dwyer, thought he was BOG last weekend yet he didn't even get a crack at emergency this week.