Autopsy 2023 Rd 8 Mediocre Blues gone after Quarter time

[Blue By Blood]

You see I would argue that our game plan is tailored to our list - it has to be “slow, chippy and stodgy” because, in your own words, “we aren’t good enough with ball in hand and foot” to play any other style.

As another poster just stated, our mids have to cream it, especially at centre clearances, for us to “get it in quick” so our Coleman boys can mark it.

We don’t have quick buzzy players who can regularly hit packs at speed and come away with the footy. We don’t have enough players who can play with “dare” due to foot skill limitations, e.g., more corridor use. Even our No 1 draft pick was spotting up Lions all night!

To start with we need to get Ed, Honey and maybe even JSOS out of the team and replace with skill and or run like Kennedy (3rd tall), Binns Boyd and Cotts. Forget about Cuners and Martin, bodies too far gone to help anymore.

Love the response, thanks for taking the time to craft a good reply. I have to say I disagree though. Moving the ball quickly whether that means actual speed or making a speedy decision, opens up the ground and there’s more space to execute. The slow stodgy play causes hesitation and second guessing until we back ourselves into a corner having to execute a risky kick.

Agree with our midfielders needing to dominate but that’s based on the current game plan. The good teams don’t need their midfield to dominate, they challenge teams with run and quick decisions when moving the ball. The times we look dangerous is when we do exactly that. Sure we’ll turn the ball over playing quick but we’ll also score more and create more space for Harry and Charlie.

The game plan is neutering our stars. It’s taking away all their strengths. We want to move the ball slow and bomb kick long to Charlie.. ok maybe that would be fine if the smalls actually had the ability to be front and centre and lock the ball in the 50. It just waltzes out. Silvagni being slow on top of Harry doesn’t help that either. The only time we look dangerous.. literally the only time.. is when the opposition turn the ball over and we are forced to run with it to capitalise.

 

[Sonny Jim]

Ha! I've had my emoji access surgically removed by Dr Mod, otherwise I'd award you a definite thumbs up.

Have one on me

 

[Red Bull]

As a supporter you can't help but sense that we are being led by a handful of comfortable millionaires. Cripps, McKay, Weiters etc...absolutely no backbone. None. This team has no toughness; either mental OR physical. We are destined for another year outside the 8. Something is seriously wrong with this group.

But they are such a lovely wholesome group of young men, and that’s the most important thing in a footy club … isn’t it ???
But if you like salt rubbed into your wounds, just wait for the fluff tripe the clubs media team will roll out during the week.
They’ve seriously got no idea how to read the bloody room …

 

[carltonchelsea]

Best team we’ve had in ages, can’t kick a footy to each other and utilise the best two forwards in the game.
BRI-BROW, you’ve failed the club.
Our kicking costs us upward of 5 goals a week.
We are embarrassing mate.
Not done but done
heck

 

[Monty1978]

We aren't sacking Voss. I am not convinced he is the guy, but merry go round of coaches isn't changing much. I think if you gave Teague or even Bolton this current side I don't think things would be much better or worse.

Only coach out there I think would of gotten more out of us is Ross Lyon. In terms of who else is available, or potentially available who is there? Hinkley? Buckley?

If we could land Hinkley I would probably move on Voss, truth be told, just not sure he is gettable.

I also don't think our list is very good, though at the same time a good coach with a plan could get more out of them. I think we have an average list and an equally average coach to match.

Voss doesn’t make the 8 he is gone
.. what has he done for us to keep him .. guy is a dud

 

[Sonny Jim]

The game plan is neutering our stars. It’s taking away all their strengths.

It's certainly challenging them.

 

[KnaveyBlue]

Mate come talk to me
Round 23 we are done if we can’t beat Brisbane 2 players out and at home we are done bookmark this .. love your passion but we were pathetic

I don't wanna believe it.

 

[BM123]

I don't think Cripps is trying to get Voss sacked. He was playing 2021 with a fractured back, so be a bit rough to accuse him for trying to get Teague sacked. He played some super dominant games prior to Bolton's sacking too, he was dreadful in what turned out to be Bolton's last game tho.

I think the early days of playing in sides losing week to week has taken its toll on Cripps, mentally if not physically. When things begin going wrong, it looks like he thinks "here we go again".

In terms of his output this season, I 100% agree with you. He has been spasmodically good at best (much like the side in general). He was very good last quarter v Richmond, turned it on 2nd half v North, first half v saints and when everyone had a birthday v West Coast.

Tonght was his worst game of the season yet, and part of the problem is our side is so skewed to our top 6-8 or so players, we simply can't afford him to have bad games. We can't win when he does.

If he is that soft than he shouldn't be captain. Nobody represents how half hearted we have played this season than Cripps. He's paid well and has all the accolades but he's one of the biggest passengers right now. Coasting his way to losses all with a big smile on his face.

 

[Blue1980]

I’m glad, in some ways, that my expectations are so low.

Arguments can be made for all sorts of reasons, but imo, it starts with the coach. He’s simply not getting the best out of the players. On top of that, he’s got an awful game-plan (or lacks the ability to communicate what he actually wants to see). I was giving him some ‘benefit of the doubt’, but Adelaide was the end of any hopes for this year, for me. I knew we’d been rubbish all year, but that game exposed just how far off we are.

I’d really love to see an “influx” of nerds into the coaches box - too many ex-footballers, not enough brains (that’s an industry wide thing but reckon we’re in a worse position than most).

With the best coaches, do we have a list that’s top 4 material? Debatable. Fully fit I thought we did, but some players have not come on as expected, others have gone backwards unexpectedly … and one thing that I no longer think we can ignore is the psychological impact on performance of being so s**t for so long and with so much pressure to succeed.

On performances to date, I have little faith in our key defenders ever being premiership players (esp if Weiters is one of the highest paid at the Club). H is less of a concern but still a concern nonetheless. A lot of money tied up in those two, not to mention Williams, Martin and Gov.

The first signs that the coach could be losing the players appeared a few weeks ago. Next weekend will be telling. Tonight may have made the players feel that they’re on a hiding to nothing, which they may well be. A worst case scenario might see that disappointment and frustration cause a fallout within the playing group - how many of our highest paid actually earn their money week in, week out etc.

It felt a bit like the Geelong game last year, tonight. Just that acceptance that the opposition is way too good.

Top 4 list, no way known. You can't have a top 4 list with only 2 above average forwards (as good as Charlie is and Harry can be). JSOS, Motlop, Honey and Durdin are all below average for their position (Durds and Motlop I do at least see potential in, Honey wont be on the list beyond this season and Jack maybe not either).

I think our defence is actually quite good, and the area of least concern. The midfield is a conundrum, but would it be better if we just had enough quality half forwards and dynamic players around them?

Pitt is below average, though good tap ruckman. I don't rate TDK at all, so would still have Pitt in.

I also think the greenshoots years (as i have menitoned before) has had a massive detrimental impact. Players who basically spent most of their careers in the hope it would eventually turn around. It looks to me when things go wrong guys like Cripps, Weiters, Ed, Harry, Charlie etc they just think "here we go again". The losing mentality is so ingrained after being rubbish for so long, its so hard to turn around. Look how hard it was for Richmond, Melbourne etc.

So the issues I think are many and varied. I think our leaders aren't winners, and we are paying for shit recruiting and building an unbalanced list under the SOS list management years.

I will reiterate again though, we aren't rebuilding again. That just gives us another out, as players, as people working at the club and fans. I don't want to go through the "oh well we are young, we can lose" shit ever again. We all need to collectively suck it up and be aiming to win every week and feel the hurt if we lose, so we don't give ourselves and out. That is the only way we get better.

We need to be aiming every off season to improve the list to be better the year after. There is no short cuts, or fait accomplis in this game.

Too many people (maybe also in the club) think as we have 2 coleman medalists, all australians and a brownlow medalist that makes a top 4 side. It doesn't at all.

 

[Santo the king]

Was at the game, and have watched replay.

Their scoring from forward pressure was the difference. If stop reading here you, you have read all you need to hear from me.

Our defence did not cope and we coughed up goals. Both teams applied pressure well through midfield but given we often had an additional player at the contest we didnt hurt them enough with our numerical advantage. Time to play Saad on ball? I like Sammy forward in qtr 1.

Brisbane are a very good team [as MM loved to say] and they ultimately executed better more often. We lost that game in key moments. We certainly are not poor and we definetly tried moving the ball through the middle and our first qtr was good, we switched well but we still dont have enough player prepared to run straight and put fear into opposition defenders. Cincotta has been a good addition but we need better qaulity around the ball.

Walsh got to lots of contests but hurt factor was poor. Cripps the same while hewitt was solid. Cerra our best and acres being prepared to run straight and carry (despite his numerous turn overs). Hollands is gutsy and will be a very good player.

We are a good team but need some list changes to become a top 4 team. I remain confident that Voss has what it takes to winning coach but he an his team has flaws and so do some of his players.

Next week.

Out: Honey(just not good enough at this level) and Ed (although i disagree he was bad he is also not so good we keep in)

In: Kennedy, Cotters.

 

[Blue1980]

If he is that soft than he shouldn't be captain. Nobody represents how half hearted we have played this season than Cripps. He's paid well and has all the accolades but he's one of the biggest passengers right now. Coasting his way to losses all with a big smile on his face.

I am also not against him not being captain. Should probably be Walsh. Though I don't think it would make a measureable difference.

Biggest issue is lack of a proper team and too much focus on individuals. We are relying on our top 6 or so players to have blinders otherwise we can't beat anyone decent, that is the main issue. (not withstanding other issues)

 

[TENACIOUS]

Motlop's cheapies? He's not the one getting goals from opposition mistakes. He worked hard for that one that Charlie gave off to him.

Motlop was poor, his goals flattered him...

He wasn't alone though...

 

[Blue1980]

Mate come talk to me
Round 23 we are done if we can’t beat Brisbane 2 players out and at home we are done bookmark this .. love your passion but we were pathetic

I think you are underrating Brisbane and overrating us.

Need to reajust your expectations.

Though still be angry.

Be angry that we are shit because we have assembled a list which isn't good enough. Maybe if we had a coach or coaching panel which was above average which could make up for it, but we do not.

The big stars have seduced us. The overall list is very average. The club has the marketable stars, but overall we are being gaslit, the current sides ceiling is 8th or 9th.

 

[KnaveyBlue]

We're poorly coached.

 

[thebluenewdeal]

We're poorly coached.

Incredible insight

 

[BM123]

I am also not against him not being captain. Should probably be Walsh. Though I don't think it would make a measureable difference.

Biggest issue is lack of a proper team and too much focus on individuals. We are relying on our top 6 or so players to have blinders otherwise we can't beat anyone decent, that is the main issue. (not withstanding other issues)

Having a mid with zero accountability as our centre piece is going to work either though. We have plenty of good mids but if Cripps goes missing his opponent gets to play for free and it kills us.

Yeah I wish we had a better balanced side but I don't think that'd help our captain go missing less.

 

[Blueing]

Record Membership for the club and they go out and dish this crap out!!! Field kicking was terrible.....we panic way to quickly spray and pray the ball, in hope we win it again.....Cripps was MIA, our descision making was horendous and after 1/4 time we lost all structure and Voss got pants again.....subbed out Young when clearly was other players and talls that performed worse....we have no run we look like statues half the time.....we are clearly not up to it with a top four side!!!! I dont know what Voss needs to do, but he should do it soon, cause i can sense the villagers are getting restless and the pitch forks are getting.......

 

[Blue1980]

Having a mid with zero accountability as our centre piece is going to work either though. We have plenty of good mids but if Cripps goes missing his opponent gets to play for free and it kills us.

Yeah I wish we had a better balanced side but I don't think that'd help our captain go missing less.

I agree, so what should we do with Cripps?

I feel we need to explore everything here, as I believe the club is going nowhere, but if we could of traded Cripps a couple of years ago and got some draft capital and worked on getting a better rounded list, would of that been better?

He won a brownlow last year, good, great. Wtf has it done for us as a team? What is it doing for us as a team?

 

[carltonchelsea]

Scoreboard flattered us, that 3rd qtr we couldn't hit a target to save ourselves, we just didn't handle the Lions pressure either

While the quicker ball movement looks more desirable, it doesn't suit our list against better sides, so prefer more tempo

Cerra was a clear standout, Hollands tried bloody hard

Kennedy just has to be a starter next week

Cripps needs to be on the move more. Stick Walsh on a wing, Acres more inside

Subbing Young was just bizarre, when you could have sent him forward instead

Small forwards kicking goals and laying tackles is great, but being first to the ball is probably more important

Still need more speed and grunt, find spots for Cotts and Boyd, we are better for it

I’m gunna be in disagreement, worst coached side with a top 6/8 list.
Zero system, like nada, shit kick and hope ain’t the way.
Our Playmakers are the worst in the top half, no ****ing idea

 

[Blue1980]

I’m gunna be in disagreement, worst coached side with a top 6/8 list.
Zero system, like nada, s**t kick and hope ain’t the way.
Our Playmakers are the worst in the top half, no ******* idea

I don't think we have a top 6/8 list.

Clubs with better lists than us:

Brisbane
Pies
Melbourne
Geelong
Port
St Kilda
Dogs
Sydney
Adelaide

Clubs with comparable lists:
Essendon
GWS
Suns
Richmond
Fremantle

Clubs who we have a better list than:
North
Hawks
WC

We overrate our list way too much (I have also). We have some elite talent, but we have some areas of our list which are bottom 3 standard (notably ruck, and half/small forwards). Austin is trying to fix a hot mess that was created by SOS and co.

We have been gaslit. The only part of the club which has improved is our marketing and PR department. Coaching and board is bog average.

 

[reg_lower91]

The media always points out that we go slow, go sideways, backwards etc but sitting on a wing tonight I could clearly see that's because there was nothing to kick to. We are so stagnant.

This. Our defenders were looking up and there was just simply no movement. Statues. Umpire calls play on. We kick it long. Rinse and repeat. Don’t know if it’s game plan or laziness or what. Either way, it’s utter crap.

 

[thechamps1974]

Try carlton, st George dragons, crystal palace, green bay, the Waratahs, Sydney fc and the knicks. I am cursed. I even have a soft spot for williams in the F1.

A couple of trophies in there though

 

[Thrawn]

I agree, so what should we do with Cripps?

I feel we need to explore everything here, as I believe the club is going nowhere, but if we could of traded Cripps a couple of years ago and got some draft capital and worked on getting a better rounded list, would of that been better?

He won a brownlow last year, good, great. Wtf has it done for us as a team? What is it doing for us as a team?

We keep him. He's our captain and almost single-handedly dragged us across the line vs Collingwood last year, and if not for wayward kicking from Beavis and Butthead (McKay and Curnow), we would've been finalists.

This talk of trading him is rubbish. Had the same discussion at the end of 2021, well what do you know, he ended up winning a Brownlow and was the catalyst to our 8-2 start. Without him, we would not have even been close.

Only problem is that our midfield is not playing to its potential because it is poorly coached. You can argue that players selected in the AA team does nothing for our team, Curnow's Coleman does nothing for our team, etc all you want. But what it does more than anything is that it shows that these players have a high ceiling, and we can't reach that when Voss and his coaching team are crawling on the floor.

 

[thechamps1974]

I don't think we have a top 6/8 list.

Clubs with better lists than us:

Brisbane
Pies
Melbourne
Geelong
Port
St Kilda
Dogs
Sydney
Adelaide

Clubs with comparable lists:
Essendon
GWS
Suns
Richmond
Fremantle

Clubs who we have a better list than:
North
Hawks
WC

We overrate our list way too much (I have also). We have some elite talent, but we have some areas of our list which are bottom 3 standard (notably ruck, and half/small forwards). Austin is trying to fix a hot mess that was created by SOS and co.

We have been gaslit. The only part of the club which has improved is our marketing and PR department. Coaching and board is bog average.

on the money

 

[Thrawn]

Having a mid with zero accountability as our centre piece is going to work either though. We have plenty of good mids but if Cripps goes missing his opponent gets to play for free and it kills us.

Yeah I wish we had a better balanced side but I don't think that'd help our captain go missing less.

When Cripps is having a bad day and/or his opponent is having a blinder, then it is up to the coach to either motivate him or change things up. Like put him up forward for example (this year he's been lacking goals)... or put someone else on his opponent to quell them. Something.