Autopsy 2023 Rd 8 Mediocre Blues gone after Quarter time

[passmark]

, what is a passmark in 2023?

…a disappointed Carlton supporter in Western Australia .

 

[passmark]

Think I've found a clever little function on the phone app. If you swipe the screen down it refreshes. If you want it to.

Look at you, little tech bro.

 

[Sam The Doc]

Wow

Haha don’t worry that poster is cooked

 

[BluStreak]

Harry and Charles competing for the same ball. This has to stop. Harry go left and Charlie go right, JSOS up the middle. Three options with at least one, being a one on one.
Mids need to lower their eyes and look for a leading forward rather than bombing into the forward line hoping for a contested mark.

 

[SBYM]

Just to cheer everyone up, if the Bummers win today they're probably playing finals.

That should make this shitshow easier to take...

 

[FRUMPY]

Who cares.

You think the fans give a s**t about that?

The fans want to see the players pissed off and as disappointed as they are.

Or do you want the fans all to have a laugh along as well?

Talk about being tone deaf.

Tbh, I couldn't care if blokes are having a laugh after the siren. They all know each other and you need to be able to have a chat. Be a good winner and a good loser.

Players hurt more than supporters, I've got no doubt about that. It's literally their livelihood on the line.

Supporters just see a reaction like that and think they don't care. It's just nuffie talk really.

On CPH2005 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Harry and Charles competing for the same ball. This has to stop. Harry go left and Charlie go right, JSOS up the middle. Three options with at least one, being a one on one.
Mids need to lower their eyes and look for a leading forward rather than bombing into the forward line hoping for a contested mark.

Great in theory but requires quicker ball movement so there are actually leading lanes and not 10opposition players clogging space.

 

[Accidental genius]

Harry and Charles competing for the same ball. This has to stop. Harry go left and Charlie go right, JSOS up the middle. Three options with at least one, being a one on one.
Mids need to lower their eyes and look for a leading forward rather than bombing into the forward line hoping for a contested mark.

You’d think Hansen would get the picture by now….

Can only imagine it is instructional…just kick it in

 

[OnceWeWereKings]

I've defended Voss and will continue to do so for most accusations thrown his way.

However, as many of the greatest coaches of modern sports (the major sports in the US and global professional Football) agree on throughout their autobiographies the most important aspect of a coach/manager in the modern game is to drive the players from a psychological and motivation perspective.

Voss is now the third (in a few cases forth) head coach that has struggled mightily with getting this group to play at an acceptable level of want.

They lack hunger and drive for the competition. They are mentally weak and fragile. Their efforts are not up to the standard required nearly often enough.

I've learned enough about sports throughout my life that you either have it or you don't. It starts with your on field leadership group setting the acceptable standards and communicating that to the other players on the team. This is what separates blokes like Joel Selwood from the rest.

Cripps is great when his actions are that example. Docherty is the gutsiest bloke in the competition. Even so we lack the general, the campaigner that will shoulder the on field responsibility of uniting these players who is essentially an extension of the coach.

Until we get one or until someone stands up and takes on that role we will continue to tread water.

This team needs a leader or leaders who believes in Voss enough to pull this team into line to execute his vision. Bolts, Teague and now Voss haven't had that.

Last night Brisbane had that in numbers. They won last night because of Faganism. It's more than a media term

Imagine the footballer you’d have if you put Sam Collins heart and his thirst for the contest into Jacob Weitering…..

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

So many s**t handballs!
s**t both decision wise and skill wise.

Besides the actual poor decision making & execution, there’s been a problem with our overall awareness and spatial positioning, we’re very poor in when to spread & run and how we time our connection using the right areas available to link up, we hardly block or use shepherding for better separation for each other, which should help take the direct pressure off the ball handler, also helping us create more time/space and the chance to move the ball quickly and in a better fashion…

 

[Blue Reaper]

Brisbane are a very good team and their pressure was superb. We simply couldn’t handle it in the 3rd Q, and our skill execution and composure (especially out of the defensive half) was found wanting. Really disappointing.

They’ve also had a few more years in the top half of the comp to build experience and cohesion. We’re at the start of that trajectory. Two wins over the next 4 rounds is about where we’re at. Anything more is a welcome bonus.

Some of the reactions across the threads is melodramatic rubbish. ‘Sack Voss’, ‘trade Cripps’, ‘drop Kemp’ … spare me.

 

[Gethelred]

Just to cheer everyone up, if the Bummers win today they're probably playing finals.

That should make this shitshow easier to take...

But you don't understand!

If they cannot make the finals, they cannot lose a final to prolong their streak!

 

[Aphrodite]

But you don't understand!

If they cannot make the finals, they cannot lose a final to prolong their streak!

The streak must continue.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

The big picture question is why have we played such poor, bog ordinary, footy pretty much ALL year?

We've got guns on all lines across the park, including the two most recent Coleman medalists.

Yet, we've gone backwards, considerably, from last year.

I don't buy the 'they've worked out our game plan' spin.

You win the ball, use it well (ball use and decision making), you invariably win.

I put it very largely down to - what must be a coaching edict - to slow down ball movement in order to 'control' the ball.

This edict stops the players playing instinctive - take the game on - footy and makes them second guess themselves and their team mates....

Very arguably a coaching overreaction to last year's much publicized moments where we gave up a swag of consecutive goals?

That's not to excuse the deplorable skills we witnessed on Friday - from most - that was hopefully just an aberration (but again contributed to by the clash of edict vs. natural instinct?).

At the micro level, there's the decline of Weiters - he needs time off in my opinion. Something NQR there.

Still reckon we'll beat the Dogs. Go Blues.

 

[agro]

Why all the melts - we’re still in the eight after round 8, only a game and a half from top spot.

 

[Blue and Blue]

Why all the melts - we’re still in the eight after round 8, only a game and a half from top spot.

No No No
We got absolutely smashed by a massive 26 points and its all gloom and doom now, forever...............

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Why all the melts - we’re still in the eight after round 8, only a game and a half from top spot.

I tend to agree, we can’t ignore that there are issues that need to be addressed but the hyperbole after we lost to a side expected to be top 4 is unhelpful.

 

[thylacine60]

Look at you, little tech bro.

Egg coloured emoji with 2 bulging red eyes inserted here.

 

[oldtimer22]

Harry and Charles competing for the same ball. This has to stop. Harry go left and Charlie go right, JSOS up the middle. Three options with at least one, being a one on one.
Mids need to lower their eyes and look for a leading forward rather than bombing into the forward line hoping for a contested mark.

Leigh Matthews agrees with you. Yesterday on AW he said that McKay and Charlie are getting in each others way and that McKay won the Coleman when Charlie was injured.

 

[BM123]

No, we just need a better system in place to help him stop getting grappled by 2 to 3 opposition players.

This is the first time I've seen anyone here call Cripps a peaheart, bet you weren't saying that in Round 23 when he pretty much tore Collingwood to shreds (and was denied a certain goal because a Collingwood player played dominos with JSOS). Fact is that he's carried the team far more often than not, even tried to with a broken back. He didn't have to, he could've sat out and recouped - if there's any phrase which to describe him, it's not being a pea-heart. So stop with the bollocks.

If you want to trade him away, what do you actually want to get for him? And what guarantee is there that they won't turn to s**t because the systems put in place are inadequate to either use their strengths, or make them a better player? We have players in the side who we know are much better kick, so it's more than just "oh he's just having a jog".

Reckon you'll disappear once he plays better again.

Yeah Cripps opponent been best on ground in our last 3 games against decent opposition isn't an issue I guess. If it was anyone else we'd be screeching for them to be dropped. We don't expect our captain to run both ways. What do you mean we have players we know are a better kick? What does that have to do with his defensive efforts? If he starts being consistently accountable when his opponent has the momentum I'll sing his praises. Would be a good example to set for a well paid Captain....

Zone defence and modern defensive systems in competitive team sports requires everyone putting in. No system is going to work with a jogging skipper. For a club as fragile defensively in the modern era as we've been it's inexcusable.

 

[BRADLESTICKS]

Love it Wick

Ageist old fart here everyone. (Edit: Apologies turned in to a long winded rant, but what the hell, here to share)

I absolutely cringe in this plastic world with the institutions teaching “LEADERSHIP”.

Certain aspects of leadership can indeed be taught, but the real essence of leadership is innate. No amount of courses designed to enable those born with financial privilege to be “leaders” can substitute for those born to positively influence others.

Fed up with “over the journey I have learned” or “player X taught me that and now I…” Selwood was hailed a leader, the second he ran out for the Cats. Hodge stepped above Mitchell at the Hawks during their journey because it was his natural make up (and Mitchell was/is a leader), Voss, Kirk, we can all pull up names through the history of the game. Big Nick, Sticks, Jezza, Fitzpatrick.

We have had plenty of second and even third tier leaders in recent times. I rate Judd second tier, led by actions pushed standards to a degree, but was most concerned with his own standards. Ratten and McKay had some genuine leadership, but nit the complete package. Whitnall a tough competitor who gave his all game day, preparation not so much. Kouta was a great player but an average leader. The less I say about Marc Murphy the better.

Now we have Crippa, after a short period with Doc as co-captain. Docherty for mine ticks most of the leadership boxes, but has had to take a step back to deal with life issues and challenges. He is undoubtedly the most natural mature leader we have. Crippa is immensely popular with the “boys”, but does not tick all of the leadership boxes. He is not a 100% diehard type. He has moments of pure effort and commitment, but has, for mine, been seduced by the press and self image to want to be the breakaway marquee type midfielder. He would play and most definitely lead better if he returned to the selfless extractor days when he was happy to get first possession and dish to the outside boys. Leadership is driving or doing the hard yards, unconditionally, every time. If challenged or even beaten, a leader finds a way to contribute, even if he becomes a decoy. A leader rarely, if ever, sooks.

I don’t believe Crippa is the biggest problem in our leadership group. I give you Jacob Weitering. I cringed back in the day when the Weiterbot super human persona was created by supporters. He repeated Bolton’s platitudes, often word for word and was given credit for his intellect and leadership. He is a contrived leader. The “great” footage of him miked up barking instructions, from my observations is counter productive. Lewis Young was at his best when Weiters was injured. Young stepped up and admirably did the job on the oppo’s best forward. Instincts were good. Weiters stifles Young and many of his team mates. He micro manages and directs them as best suits him. While best as an interceptor, he demands responsibility for the oppo’s best, often when others are better suited. Match day threads have genuine hard working defenders like Young and Kemp (even Plow) castigated for poor positioning when they are caught between instincts and one man’s instruction. Weitering is a big component of the defence, but it notionally does not revolve around his preferred positioning. He is far from selfless and often throws mates under the bus opting for his chosen “switch” or choosing not to.

Our forward line desperately needs a leader to orchestrate our group of individuals. I was heartened to see Doc redeployed up there for a portion of Friday’s game. I believe little Durdin has the smarts and persona to become the leader up there. Perhaps not for a couple of years while developing, but would love to see Voss modify the structures to allow him to spend more time in the actual forward half, rather than too often covering our lazy mids up the ground. Forwards need to work up the ground more than ever before, but I think ours are being asked for a little too much at times.

We have too many young blokes who often have trouble flicking the switch from the recreation room to the football field. It is great being mates off field, but they need to be invested in each other on the ground. Historically footy teams are made up of a variety of personalities and types. We seem to have a policy demanding inclusion in leisure activities. Sick of hearing of the various levels of their bloody gaming as some sort of valued skill. I was a square peg in a round hole socially in most of my teams off field, but totally invested on the field in my yahoo team mates. They need to come together on field, much more than they do off.

We have seen all the guff about Geelong doing less training and meeting during the week, and so less time socialising in each other’s pockets, to allow their mature group to involve themselves in real life. On the surface, this is catering to their ages and family life. In reality it is focussing their interaction on the football ground. The basis of their team is football, and is nit blurred by excessive time filling activities. I think many of the youngsters lose themselves in the club, perhaps more so than other clubs who have had a greater spread of ages on the list. Many of our boys have grown together through their entire adult lives. Is this a good thing? Creating the “optimum” training facility may in fact be counter productive.

We would do well to embrace the leadership qualities of our individuals. We have a contrived environment where our leaders are more ordained than evolve. We lament the lack of leaders, we may not have the next Hodge in our group, but I am sure we have some leaders in our contrived hierarchy. The thing about real leaders is they build their group and empower their successors. They don’t jealously guard their own domain.

I would love to see the level of input and interaction at team meetings. I see the Cerra, Durdin, Hollands, Cincotta, Kennedy, Williams, Young types as essential to find voice. I would love the likes of Kemp with special talent to be confident to raise issues, questions, make observations that may be impeding their progress rather than shut up, listen and comply mentality. I am making a level of assumption here, but we seem to take a hell of a long time to integrate most of our talented kids. I love the potential of young Cowan, but his blooding was very rushed, he was ordained, whereas Cincotta, along with Kemp, has rapidly proved his readiness to step up and fit in seamlessly after being forced to reaffirm already evident credentials. Cowan seems destined for a decent stint in the twos, I fear he will be set back considerably longer than if compelled to “earn” his spot. He will have to assimilate in to the VFL group after being placed above them. It will be harder than starting the season there as one of them before stepping up.

We need a RESET it has to be done from with in. Shake up the hierarchy and the paradigms. Empower a couple of the lesser lights from a leadership perspective. We could perhaps even go as far as recognising some potential and expanding our three man leadership group. There is also nothing wrong with back to the future, if Doc is in the right space, his proven qualities should be utilised, perhaps to mentor the emerging types during the week in addition to game day.

Spot on with your assessment of Weitering listening to him speak you can tell the only thing he knows about leadership he either read about it in a book or just repeats something the coaches have told him nothing natural about it at all.
I’m always amused when he’s referred to as some sort of general down back he’s a very good stopper maybe the best in the comp when playing on a key forward without any genuine speed but is extremely selfish in the way he plays his role and I still can’t stand the way any time he cops a minor knock he stays down or puts on a limp as if he’s just been cleaned up by Byron Pickett most weeks he’s the biggest and strongest player on the field play like it.

Your correct about the lack of leadership in the forward line aswell Charlie is just a big enthusiastic kid and that’s fine, Harry lacks the football smarts to be a leader and then they are surrounded by kids or inexperienced players still fighting to cement their spot in the team Motlop,Durdin, Honey and Owies I assume this is part of the reason Ed Curnow is spending a lot of time forward this year to help provide some leadership.

 

[Thrawn]

Yeah Cripps opponent been best on ground in our last 3 games against decent opposition isn't an issue I guess. If it was anyone else we'd be screeching for them to be dropped. We don't expect our captain to run both ways. What do you mean we have players we know are a better kick? What does that have to do with his defensive efforts? If he starts being consistently accountable when his opponent has the momentum I'll sing his praises. Would be a good example to set for a well paid Captain....

Zone defence and modern defensive systems in competitive team sports requires everyone putting in. No system is going to work with a jogging skipper. For a club as fragile defensively in the modern era as we've been it's inexcusable.

Cripps is not a tagger, if you want to quell the influence of his opponent, you need your midfield to set up for it. That includes putting someone else on said opposition, which is a coaching issue. We all know Cripps isn't the quickest guy around, and it doesn't help having two blokes constantly dragging onto him.

You have not answered my question, if you want to trade him, for who exactly? And how will they go with our current system?

The kicking example is indicative of a lack of confidence, Cripps also suffers from this. It's not just "he's jogging", the problem is multi-faceted, a lot of it stems from what the players are instructed to do, as well as a midfield that is obviously poorly set up. He was "jogging" in R23 last year too, people forget how much of a big, lumbering player he is. Don't expect him to run like a Walsh.

You have come from no where bagging Cripps, where were you when he was playing well because we had those spurts of playing with freedom? Oh that's right, no where to be seen. You can't even answer a simple question, shows how much conviction your statements truly have.

 

[le dominateur]

Leigh Matthews agrees with you. Yesterday on AW he said that McKay and Charlie are getting in each others way and that McKay won the Coleman when Charlie was injured.

We seem to have a lot of players that lack basic footy IQ


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Arr0w]

Leigh Matthews agrees with you. Yesterday on AW he said that McKay and Charlie are getting in each others way and that McKay won the Coleman when Charlie was injured.

Stunning observation by Matthews

 

[BM123]

Cripps is not a tagger, if you want to quell the influence of his opponent, you need your midfield to set up for it. That includes putting someone else on said opposition, which is a coaching issue. We all know Cripps isn't the quickest guy around, and it doesn't help having two blokes constantly dragging onto him.

You have not answered my question, if you want to trade him, for who exactly? And how will they go with our current system?

The kicking example is indicative of a lack of confidence, Cripps also suffers from this. It's not just "he's jogging", the problem is multi-faceted, a lot of it stems from what the players are instructed to do, as well as a midfield that is obviously poorly set up. He was "jogging" in R23 last year too, people forget how much of a big, lumbering player he is. Don't expect him to run like a Walsh.

You have come from no where bagging Cripps, where were you when he was playing well because we had those spurts of playing with freedom? Oh that's right, no where to be seen. You can't even answer a simple question, shows how much conviction your statements truly have.

Any trade is a gamble whether it's for picks or players. Are we contending or rebuilding? Better sides than us have off loaded quality players to fill multiple holes. If we can get quality HFF's and another winger than I'd ship him off. We don't lack for inside mids.

You talk about conviction while using weak excuses like "oh he just looks like he is jogging" or "he's being held". Mate coaches have learnt he doesn't run both ways and it's killed us. He's not the first big bloke to play midfield either. How many excuses you going to throw out for a professional footballer? He isn't losing to just 1 on 2's either. Consistently losing front position 1 on and 1 then watching his opponent run off him for free. Talking about him like he's just a big victim...Cripps opponent isn't even his responsibility according to you so what's the point?

Playing with freedom.....it was the same crap we pulled last time we tried to contend and it fell apart once teams tightened up on us. Cripps was playing good halves then going asleep with the rest of our midfield. You mention the Collingwood game as if it was the only game that mattered. Not like we lost out on finals on percentage after giving away massive leads to bottom four teams. Cripps went missing quite often last year but at least he looked great playing unaccountable footy with the rest of the team. That style really worked well for us in 2012 and last sesson. The players really wanted Teague for a reason I see.

Yeah mate he is jogging because the coaches told him to right? Our bullocking 194cm midfielder needs other inside mids to cover for him so his opponent doesn't get to be best on ground for free again. Maybe he could try to create space for others.....he's got the frame for it.

If you think he's killing it good for you. We got different standards on what's appropriate. I guess someone should have told the countless players in worse sides with less structure they don't need to cover their man.