Play Nice Referendum - Indigenous Voice in Parliament - Part 2

[Gethelred]

Link to the proposed Referendum, from the Referendum Working Group:

(Edited 6 April 2023)

These are the words that will be put to the Australian people in the upcoming referendum as agreed by the Referendum Working Group (made up of representatives of First Nations communities from around Australia):

"A Proposed Law: to alter the Constitution to recognise the First Peoples of Australia by establishing an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice. Do you approve this proposed alteration?"

As well as that, it will be put to Australians that the constitution be amended to include a new chapter titled "Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples".

The details would be:


View attachment 1636890

The Prime Minister has committed to the government introducing legislation with this wording to parliament on 30 March 2023 and to establishing a joint parliamentary committee to consider it and receive submissions on the wording, providing ALL members of Parliament with the opportunity to consider and debate the full details of the proposal.

Parliament will then vote on the wording in June in the lead up to a National Referendum.

The ANU has issued a paper responding to common public concerns expressed in relation to the proposed Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice here:

Indigenous Voice to Parliament | Australian National University

Responding to common concerns about an aboriginal and torres strait islander voice First Nations portfolio Background

www.anu.edu.au

Summary details of the key points from this paper may be found in Chief post here:

The Uluru Statement from the Heart:

Not specifically No. In any case it does not form part of the Referendum proposal.

View attachment 1769742

Seeing as things have gotten a bit toxic in here, let's try to return things to a more civil tone.

The following will result in warnings to begin with, and if said behaviour continues will be escalated:

• referring to another poster as racist without direct provocation.
• dismissing or deriding another poster's lived experience.
• personal attacks or one line posts designed solely to insult or deride.

You might notice that the final rule is from the board rules. Thought we should probably remember that this is against the rules in case it's been forgotten.

Let's play nicely from here, people.

 

[Carringbush2010]

That's not what I see in everyday life.

I see a lot of racism in this country.

People that act like the nicest people in public, sprout some of the most racist s**t behind closed doors.

Of course you may think, what's the big deal, a few jokes and views behind closed doors is not going to hurt anyone; you couldn't be more wrong.

These are employers, decision makers, government officials, etc.. they have profound impact on society, particularly Aboriginals and Indigenous Australians.

You and others have a pessimistic view of your neighbor and the people around you.

Shame.

Obviously not a place you like, I contested Grales that this country he does not like, I got a rebuttal of that but never ever have seen a positive statement about our country.

Just forever anti western liberal sentiment and if you're part of it then your guilty by association.

To be honest I can't say I've ever seen a positive word from you about our western liberal country.

It gives the impression you all live in a society you detest, yet you'd be hard pressed to find a more liberal and tolerant nation on the planet. Sounds a miserable existence.

I'll end my discussion here with you, I kindly ask you do the same.

 

[Not Important]

Only Indigenous People have such a historical entitlement and the associated rights. Rights that our highest court has recognised. Rights that almost every country in the world, including Australia, has signed up to. One of those is the right to determine their own identity.

The myth of neutrality and why Australia needs a Voice

Establishing an Indigenous Voice in Australia’s constitution is consistent with a liberal democracy and political equality says a University of Melbourne expert

pursuit.unimelb.edu.au

 

[Not Important]

haven’t given up hope that the righteous rather than the “right” will prevail in this instance.

 

[Saint]

If a news agency implied Dutton was racist, which he almost certainly is, he'd be on the defamation train as soon as it got to the station.

The trick goes like this:

Criticise the Voice because of some reason that doesn't make sense like they're going to steal your park or backyard.
Then people point out that what you said doesn't make sense.
Then you say something outrageous, but not quite racist like, oh Indigenous people get all of our money already, where's it going, huh?!?!
Somebody asks if you're racist
"OOOOOHHHHH, just because I'm voting No, I'm a racist now!!!!"

They're the worse of our society. I like to make fun of America because of their 30% support for Trump. But Clive, Pauline and Morrison get 30% of our votes, we're a laughing stock. There are plenty more bigoted countries than ours, but we're not short of our share of 'em.

 

[Gralin]

If a news agency implied Dutton was racist, which he almost certainly is, he'd be on the defamation train as soon as it got to the station.

The trick goes like this:

Criticise the Voice because of some reason that doesn't make sense like they're going to steal your park or backyard.
Then people point out that what you said doesn't make sense.
Then you say something outrageous, but not quite racist like, oh Indigenous people get all of our money already, where's it going, huh?!?!
Somebody asks if you're racist
"OOOOOHHHHH, just because I'm voting No, I'm a racist now!!!!"

They're the worse of our society. I like to make fun of America because of their 30% support for Trump. But Clive, Pauline and Morrison get 30% of our votes, we're a laughing stock. There are plenty more bigoted countries than ours, but we're not short of our share of 'em.

we get a lot of this stuff in this tweet as well
I'm not racist because of "insert whatever reason here you like" followed by doing something to maintain the status quo

 

[augie]

You and others have a pessimistic view of your neighbor and the people around you.

Shame.

Obviously not a place you like, I contested Grales that this country he does not like, I got a rebuttal of that but never ever have seen a positive statement about our country.

Just forever anti western liberal sentiment and if you're part of it then your guilty by association.

To be honest I can't say I've ever seen a positive word from you about our western liberal country.

It gives the impression you all live in a society you detest, yet you'd be hard pressed to find a more liberal and tolerant nation on the planet. Sounds a miserable existence.

I'll end my discussion here with you, I kindly ask you do the same.

I don't know the history between you and Roby, but I find in very hard to argue with the post you were quoting. I see a lot of racism in Australia. I don't hate Australia, but I do have a pessimistic view about the country when it comes to issues of race. So many elections have been fought and won with an underlying message of xenophobia. So often I hear people say things that are undeniably racist as if they are talking about the weather. That is the reality. And this referendum being unsuccessful with increase my pessimism.

And I can't agree with your statement that you'd be hard pressed to find a more liberal and tolerant nation on the planet. I only need to travel to our nearest neighbour to the east and I am in a more liberal and tolerant nation.

 

[Maggie5]

That's not what I see in everyday life.


People that act like the nicest people in public, sprout some of the most racist s**t behind closed doors.

Not necessarily behind closed doors, on public transport, shopping centres especially with a 'buddy'.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I don't know the history between you and Roby, but I find in very hard to argue with the post you were quoting. I see a lot of racism in Australia. I don't hate Australia, but I do have a pessimistic view about the country when it comes to issues of race. So many elections have been fought and won with an underlying message of xenophobia. So often I hear people say things that are undeniably racist as if they are talking about the weather. That is the reality. And this referendum being unsuccessful with increase my pessimism.

And I can't agree with your statement that you'd be hard pressed to find a more liberal and tolerant nation on the planet. I only need to travel to our nearest neighbour to the east and I am in a more liberal and tolerant nation.

Again, I'm not denying that there are laws and cultures that are racist - in my view that doesn't represent the majority of the populations view though.

Very pessimistic view if that is the belief.

That's all I'm saying, using the term 'racist country' implies that it's the whole country which it obviously isn't.

From that now it's descended into anti western liberal sentiment, ok a few on here have proudly shared this view many times over.

Then obviously this would not be a happy place for them, nor would that place over the ditch, it is also a western liberal society, but they continue the hand wringing and self loathing 'I'm aussie so I must be a racist ahole' as some sort of self punishment offering to the gods.

Pretty sad.

 

[JackOutback]

Again, I'm not denying that there are laws and cultures that are racist - in my view that doesn't represent the majority of the populations view though.

Very pessimistic view if that is the belief.

That's all I'm saying, using the term 'racist country' implies that it's the whole country which it obviously isn't.

From that now it's descended into anti western liberal sentiment, ok a few on here have proudly shared this view many times over.

Then obviously this would not be a happy place for them, nor would that place over the ditch, it is also a western liberal society, but they continue the hand wringing and self loathing 'I'm aussie so I must be a racist ahole' as some sort of self punishment offering to the gods.

Pretty sad.

If a country has racist structures that negatively impact certain groups of people, it's a racist country to that group of people. You're 'implication' that it means everyone must be individually racist is just wrong. It disingenuous and it's particularly problematic because it tries to undermine the calling out of real racism in practice.

 

[Romeoh1]

I don't know the history between you and Roby, but I find in very hard to argue with the post you were quoting. I see a lot of racism in Australia. I don't hate Australia, but I do have a pessimistic view about the country when it comes to issues of race. So many elections have been fought and won with an underlying message of xenophobia. So often I hear people say things that are undeniably racist as if they are talking about the weather. That is the reality. And this referendum being unsuccessful with increase my pessimism.

And I can't agree with your statement that you'd be hard pressed to find a more liberal and tolerant nation on the planet. I only need to travel to our nearest neighbour to the east and I am in a more liberal and tolerant nation.

I love my country too, and I know lots of wonderful people, but you’re kidding yourself if you don’t recognize the widespread racist attitudes that abound here. ( and in plenty of other counties too).

 

[Romeoh1]

If a country has racist structures that negatively impact certain groups of people, it's a racist country to that group of people. Your 'implication' that it means everyone must be individually racist is just wrong. It disingenuous and it's particularly problematic because it tries to undermine the calling out of real racism in practice.

Exactly.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I find it astounding that this referendum is almost certain to go down in flames. Such a simple step, with no identifiable downside. But still, run a bit of fear, spread some false information, and you can defeat it. The world already views us as a bit of a racist backwater. We're not helping ourselves here.

What countries aren’t viewed as abit racist though?

 

[Gralin]

If a country has racist structures that negatively impact certain groups of people, it's a racist country to that group of people. You're 'implication' that it means everyone must be individually racist is just wrong. It disingenuous and it's particularly problematic because it tries to undermine the calling out of real racism in practice.

have you met Carringbush2010 that's their whole personality

 

[tandino]

Yes voters need to snap out of polling denial — the numbers are real

There are a lot of false claims on social media about the accuracy of polls. Here's a rundown of just how wrong some of those claims are.

www.crikey.com.au

I think I saw him slapping around a few users on X as well.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Anyone get an unsolicited text from Jacinta Price?

 

[Cooldude]

Anyone get an unsolicited text from Jacinta Price?

I did, "don't know how to vote? Say no!". More like how the hell did she get my number and how dare they just text me anything willy nully

 

[Gavin Excell]

I did, "don't know how to vote? Say no!". More like how the hell did she get my number and how dare they just text me anything willy nully

Happened at last election with that freak show Craig Kelly. I think (?) there's something in electoral provisions that allows MPs and Senators access to contact info.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I did, "don't know how to vote? Say no!". More like how the hell did she get my number and how dare they just text me anything willy nully

And you know what, for all sorts of people who can't be bothered thinking about it, its easy to just vote no and nothing will change.
If you push for change you might have to actually think about what you're doing.

So no gets all the "lazy , cant be bothered" votes.

 

[campbell]

Anyone get an unsolicited text from Jacinta Price?

I did.

grrrrrrrrr, couldnt return my thoughts to her........

 

[Roby]

That's not what I see in everyday life.

I see a lot of racism in this country.

People that act like the nicest people in public, sprout some of the most racist s**t behind closed doors.

Of course you may think, what's the big deal, a few jokes and views behind closed doors is not going to hurt anyone; you couldn't be more wrong.

These are employers, decision makers, government officials, etc.. they have profound impact on society, particularly Aboriginals and Indigenous Australians.

What was so funny about this post Sttew

 

[Roby]

You and others have a pessimistic view of your neighbor and the people around you.

Shame.

Obviously not a place you like, I contested Grales that this country he does not like, I got a rebuttal of that but never ever have seen a positive statement about our country.

Just forever anti western liberal sentiment and if you're part of it then your guilty by association.

To be honest I can't say I've ever seen a positive word from you about our western liberal country.

It gives the impression you all live in a society you detest, yet you'd be hard pressed to find a more liberal and tolerant nation on the planet. Sounds a miserable existence.

I'll end my discussion here with you, I kindly ask you do the same.

My neighbour? You think I'm just up rocking to random houses and sneaking listening to their conversations?

No, no, I'm talking about my best friends, parents, relatives, work colleagues and so on. This is not my view, it's observed behaviour with no real shame. They're not apologetic for being racist, they see it as a intellectual virtue.

 

[Sun Ra]

Anyone get an unsolicited text from Jacinta Price?

I wonder if Clive Palmer paid for this ?

 

[Roby]

Not necessarily behind closed doors, on public transport, shopping centres especially with a 'buddy'.

The worst racists are the ones behind closed doors, but appear all civil in public.

Crazy loud lunatics on the tram I'd dare say are probably not the people who hold positions of power.

 

[killtaker1993]

10 reasons to vote YES (1-10: This piece of shite pamphlet I just received)

 

[adogsfan5]

My neighbour? You think I'm just up rocking to random houses and sneaking listening to their conversations?

No, no, I'm talking about my best friends, parents, relatives, work colleagues and so on. This is not my view, it's observed behaviour with no real shame. They're not apologetic for being racist, they see it as a intellectual virtue.

If you’re so passionate about the voice, perhaps it’s a good time to reconsider who you spend time with?