Resource 2023 AFL Draft Discussion...

[Mostyn]

I'm sure you recall the heart-to-heart they had to have after the dire 2020 season because Seedsman's career under Nicks had flatlined

We end up with inside mids and contested ball winners on our wings and at half forward because that's what we value

This is a weird point you're trying to make - I don't really remember that, but I do remember Seedsman being All Australian quality and playing career best football. I was really sad when his injury hit.

 

[Crowman32]

It would be great if Curtin slid to our pick but can't see it happening. If it doesn't I hope James Leake slides to our pick. Leake will be a star at AFL level. He can play back,forward and I think has the ability to be a powerful midfielder who hits the scoreboard.
If its not those two I'm happy if we take O'Sullivan or wilson.

 

[Big Dub]

Gee, Windsor is getting no love on this board.

And I mean no love, because I don't love him either.

 

[Crow_68]

Great to see so many differing views on this thread. Going to be an enjoyable draft night of fist pumping and melts!

Of the players in and around pick 10, I would go:
O’Sullivan
Wilson
Windsor
Leake

Unfortunately, Melbourne, GWS, Geelong and Essendon picks are likely to eliminate 2-3 of these.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

This is a weird point you're trying to make - I don't really remember that, but I do remember Seedsman being All Australian quality and playing career best football. I was really sad when his injury hit.

Official AFL Website of the Adelaide Crows Football Club

The official AFL website of the Adelaide Crows Football Club

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Interesting that he says becoming more inside was part of the turnaround

 

[Danger in Texas]

Great to see so many differing views on this thread. Going to be an enjoyable draft night of fist pumping and melts!

Of the players in and around pick 10, I would go:
O’Sullivan
Wilson
Windsor
Leake

Unfortunately, Melbourne, GWS, Geelong and Essendon picks are likely to eliminate 2-3 of these.

If the expected players go at the top end, two of those guys should be available to us

 

[Jirkago75]

The other issue in this - future picks are always worth slightly less than current picks. That's true in EVERY sport where you can trade into the future.

Knowing what the pick is and what you will get - and having them a year earlier - that's worth something.

So - pick 10 is probably worth a future pick 5 to 8.

I'm not sure what else we should give on top of pick 10 to get a F1.

And if Curtin IS there, we should draft him.

At the end of the day, west coast must please us and pay overs if they want pick 10 on the day. Points or whatever we say is meaningless if we aren’t happy with the deal. 10 and f1 for there f1 is worst case for us. They will need to put more on the table is Curtin is there at 10


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[CryptoCrow]

Interesting comparing the two "Wingmen" that look to be a big chance of being in our hitting zone.. Better described as Midfielder/Forwards IMO. The major difference at the 2023 Nationals the Contested Possessions/Uncontested Possession ratio...

​

Darcy Wilson​

AFL U18 Championships​

Season	Team	K	HB	D	M	CP	UP	T	HO	CLR	I50	R50	GL	GM	K	H	D	M	HO	T	G	DC
2023	Vic Country	41	23	64	11	24	37	12	0	7	17	4	4	4	10.3	5.8	16.0	2.8	0.0	3.0	1.0	71
Total	-	41	23	64	11	24	37	12	0	7	17	4	4	4	10.3	5.8	16.0	2.8	0.0	3.0	1.0	71

Coates Talent League Boys​

Season	Team	K	HB	D	M	CP	UP	T	HO	CLR	I50	R50	GL	GM	K	H	D	M	HO	T	G	DC
2022	Murray Bushrangers	145	67	212	65	0	0	20	0	0	38	18	12	13	11.2	5.2	16.3	5.0	0.0	1.5	0.9	72
2023	Murray Bushrangers	178	101	279	64	0	0	28	0	0	43	34	16	11	16.2	9.2	25.4	5.8	0.0	2.5	1.5	104
Total	-	323	168	491	129	0	0	48	0	0	81	52	28	24	13.5	7.0	20.5	5.4	0.0	2.0	1.2	176

Caleb Windsor

AFL U18 Championships​

Season	Team	K	HB	D	M	CP	UP	T	HO	CLR	I50	R50	GL	GM	K	H	D	M	HO	T	G	DC
2022	Vic Metro	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
2023	Vic Metro	42	22	64	14	18	50	13	0	3	18	3	1	4	10.5	5.5	16.0	3.5	0.0	3.3	0.3	67
Total	-	42	22	64	14	18	50	13	0	3	18	3	1	4	10.5	5.5	16.0	3.5	0.0	3.3	0.3	67

Coates Talent League Boys​

Season	Team	K	HB	D	M	CP	UP	T	HO	CLR	I50	R50	GL	GM	K	H	D	M	HO	T	G	DC
2022	Eastern Ranges	45	21	66	23	0	0	9	0	0	11	4	2	6	7.5	3.5	11.0	3.8	0.0	1.5	0.3	47
2023	Eastern Ranges	205	105	310	67	0	0	62	0	0	67	16	11	16	12.8	6.6	19.4	4.2	0.0	3.9	0.7	78
Total	-	250	126	376	90	0	0	71	0	0	78	20	13	22	11.4	5.7	17.1	4.1	0.0	3.2	0.6	125

Why not take them both with 10 and 14 if available, throw in Goad at 20 or a tall and we have our wings sorted for the future

 

[Amacca 23]

Gees you’re clutching, Seeds was our wingman when Nicks took over.

Hately, Crouch, Sloane ring a bell? All have played wing under Nicks

Yawn nope you are changing the narrative once again

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[George Kramer]

Yawn nope you are changing the narrative once again

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What’s the narrative in your opinion?

 

[1990crow]

Because a strongly built inside mid with top end acceleration is also a big need going forward....Windsor is not that. Just check his Contested Possession rate at this year's Nationals. Can he win enough of his own ball? It only gets harder in the AFL against men. Compare that with Wilson's Nationals.


Caleb Windsor

AFL U18 Championships​

Season	Team	K	HB	D	M	CP	UP	T	HO	CLR	I50	R50	GL	GM	K	H	D	M	HO	T	G	DC
2022	Vic Metro	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
2023	Vic Metro	42	22	64	14	18	50	13	0	3	18	3	1	4	10.5	5.5	16.0	3.5	0.0	3.3	0.3	67
Total	-	42	22	64	14	18	50	13	0	3	18	3	1	4	10.5	5.5	16.0	3.5	0.0	3.3	0.3	67

Darcy Wilson

AFL U18 Championships​

Season	Team	K	HB	D	M	CP	UP	T	HO	CLR	I50	R50	GL	GM	K	H	D	M	HO	T	G	DC
2023	Vic Country	41	23	64	11	24	37	12	0	7	17	4	4	4	10.3	5.8	16.0	2.8	0.0	3.0	1.0	71
Total	-	41	23	64	11	24	37	12	0	7	17	4	4	4	10.3	5.8	16.0	2.8	0.0	3.0	1.0	71

Windsor reminds me more of what we want Zac Taylor to become.

 

[1990crow]

Zac Taylor never had any problems winning his own ball inside the contest, Taylor at the same point in their career was way more capable inside and found a lot more ball. I doubt Windsor will ever have Taylor's class inside the contest, Taylor's handballing is absolutely elite and his kicking isn't too far behind that either.

My point stands though, we have Zac Taylor.

 

[maxlilly]

This is a weird point you're trying to make - I don't really remember that, but I do remember Seedsman being All Australian quality and playing career best football. I was really sad when his injury hit.

How Seedsman recalled the chat with Nicks after the 2020 season was, Nicks asked Seedsman if he even wanted to be at the club and Seedmans reply to Nicks was 'did he really want him at the club' with the way he treated him that year.
Next year Seedsman comes out and plays All Aust football.
You could hardly see that has having the coaches backing or confidence

 

[maxlilly]

He does, great example thank you

Only played half the games in Nicks' first season. Didn't know how to use him at all

And he was comfortably our best wingman at the time

Illustrates the point perfectly

We had an AA wingman in our squad but Nicks couldn't find a spot in the 22 for him

 

[1970crow]

Absolutely agree Crows are assuming more risk. At the end of the day if our club rates Curtin 3-5 in the draft and he gets to 10, I’m pretty sure the deal of 10,F1 for F1 would get done if Crows were willing. That’s my own opinion and not necessarily that of WCE and other posters.

you rise 3-4 and we drop a couple and we're basically gifting you 10. Only extreme optimists would sign off on that deal.

 

[Sanders]

The other issue in this - future picks are always worth slightly less than current picks. That's true in EVERY sport where you can trade into the future.

Knowing what the pick is and what you will get - and having them a year earlier - that's worth something.

So - pick 10 is probably worth a future pick 5 to 8.

I'm not sure what else we should give on top of pick 10 to get a F1.

And if Curtin IS there, we should draft him.

In the NFL for example, there is a general rule of thumb that there is a 1 round discount for future picks

So a future 2nd is worth a 3rd in the current draft etc

It’s not an exact science, and it’s a different sport but I think the illustration is useful.

 

[Sanders]

West Coast are in all sort of trouble with their list. They are a lock for pick 1 or 2 next year. I can't see us going backwards next year either. I know nothing is guaranteed of course, but it's a risk vs reward call that I think is weighted in our favour.

Bookies must love you

 

[Sanders]

This is a weird point you're trying to make - I don't really remember that, but I do remember Seedsman being All Australian quality and playing career best football. I was really sad when his injury hit.

It was a highly and oft publicised point after Seeds had his breakout year.

There were numerous articles and interviews referencing the big come to Jesus meeting they had after 2020

 

[Sanders]

Yawn nope you are changing the narrative once again

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Don’t confuse your inability to follow a narrative with it actually changing

 

[Mostyn]

How Seedsman recalled the chat with Nicks after the 2020 season was, Nicks asked Seedsman if he even wanted to be at the club and Seedmans reply to Nicks was 'did he really want him at the club' with the way he treated him that year.
Next year Seedsman comes out and plays All Aust football.
You could hardly see that has having the coaches backing or confidence

I wouldn't mind a link to that.

We haven't had a great history on this board with how we recap conversations between player and coach.

I think being challenged by the coach to really show you want it, and then coming out and having a career best year sounds like a good outcome to me.

 

[Mostyn]

It was a highly and oft publicised point after Seeds had his breakout year.

There were numerous articles and interviews referencing the big come to Jesus meeting they had after 2020

Great. They had a come to Jesus meeting, and then Seedsman drastically improved.

What's the issue with this?

Most coaches want their wingmen to go when it's their turn. A quick google comes up with a bucket load of examples of that.

Chris Fagan always said it at Hawthorn and the Lions -

Between them they have kicked 37 goals and proved an integral part of the Lions' unlikely surge towards September.

"Wingmen are real stoppage players," Fagan told AFL.com.au. "You need wingers that can play strong footy on the inside and I thought that was Mitch.

"They're the most complex of all the positions to play, because you're involved in most structures at most times."

 

[Sanders]

Great. They had a come to Jesus meeting, and then Seedsman drastically improved.

What's the issue with this?

Most coaches want their wingmen to go when it's their turn. A quick google comes up with a bucket load of examples of that.

Chris Fagan always said it at Hawthorn and the Lions -

Between them they have kicked 37 goals and proved an integral part of the Lions' unlikely surge towards September.

"Wingmen are real stoppage players," Fagan told AFL.com.au. "You need wingers that can play strong footy on the inside and I thought that was Mitch.

"They're the most complex of all the positions to play, because you're involved in most structures at most times."

Not sure I see the relevance?

 

[Mostyn]

Not sure I see the relevance?

I think it started with a comment that Nicks wouldn't play Wilson because he didn't like outside players.

The suggestion was he absolutely will play wingmen - Seedsman, Soligo - but loses faith if they won't do the non-negotiables around contested ball - Cook, Sholl.

We haven't actually had great wingmen, so I would have thought it makes us more likely to draft one, so we don't have to keep playing midfielders as wingmen.

Maybe others feel we have had good wingmen, but Nicks doesn't have faith in them? I guess you could see things from that perspective.

 

[George Kramer]

I think it started with a comment that Nicks wouldn't play Wilson because he didn't like outside players.

The suggestion was he absolutely will play wingmen - Seedsman, Soligo - but loses faith if they won't do the non-negotiables around contested ball - Cook, Sholl.

We haven't actually had great wingmen, so I would have thought it makes us more likely to draft one, so we don't have to keep playing midfielders as wingmen.

Maybe others feel we have had good wingmen, but Nicks doesn't have faith in them? I guess you could see things from that perspective.

We recruited a great wingman, but Nicks played him in defence until he played as an inside mid.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

My point stands though, we have Zac Taylor.

Taylor has way more inside craft

Windsor is prob more like Wayne milera or a blue chip Lachie Sholl TBH