Game Day The Rot In The Middle

[Macca81]

wellingham needs to be delisted.

Des Headlands downhill skier with no heart. Get rid of this long haired hipster soft utensil.

 

[The Passenger]

I think today was the day were this midfield was finally properly exposed to the wider AFL world. To me that can only be a good thing. Everyone knew it was a weak spot on the field for us, but to see it dismantled in such ruthless fashion would have been a real eye opener for some people, and probably even quite a few of our supporters.

All the guys that run through the midfield are good footballers. But they all have weaknesses, some of them are major weaknesses at AFL level. Having a couple of real top liners means those good midfielders can play to their strengths and can be less concerned about their weaknesses. Unfortunately when guys like Shuey (shaking a tag, four quarter performances), Priddis (kicking, pace, defensive ability), Gaff (pace, strength, right foot), Wellingham (winning own ball, general effort), Rosa (kicking, pace), Sheed (strength, experience), Masten (toughness, decision making, delivery into 50) are asked to go above and beyond what they are capable of doing then those weaknesses (in brackets) are completely exposed and we are seeing the result, and it is only magnified against the top teams. As a unit, they just aren't good enough to be an AFL challenger.

It's a shame in many ways because these are all guys that would thrive in the right midfield (yes, even Priddis), but they are all in a position where they are pushing s**t up a hill. This was identified on this board many years ago but wasn't addressed by the previous regime and Simpson and his coaches and recruiting staff need to start addressing it in this off season otherwise he won't be coach for much longer. Which will be disappointing because I really believe tactically he is very solid and he is coming from a great training base of success that is Kangaroo's in the late 90's and Hawthorn coaching in the last 6 years.

It has been shown time and time again that those who have been part of successful clubs in the past have a greater chance of becoming part of successful clubs in the future. But all that means a lick of s**t, because unless your recruiting and list management is good then you won't have the personnel and right now our midfield doesn't have the personnel and it's really hard to see who are the guys that can explode and become genuine A-graders. They just don't seem to exist on our list right now.

In many ways 2011 was the worst thing to happen to the club. Papered over a lot of problems, and in hindsight it would've taken two massive upsets in the PF and GF for us to jag that flag. There was a clear best three teams that year and we were the best of the rest a long way back.

 

[Winky]

I think today was the day were this midfield was finally properly exposed to the wider AFL world. To me that can only be a good thing. Everyone knew it was a weak spot on the field for us, but to see it dismantled in such ruthless fashion would have been a real eye opener for some people, and probably even quite a few of our supporters.

All the guys that run through the midfield are good footballers. But they all have weaknesses, some of the major weaknesses at AFL level. Having a couple of real top liners means those good midfielders can play to their strengths and can be less concerned about their weaknesses. Unfortunately when guys like Shuey (shaking a tag, four quarter performances), Priddis (kicking, pace, defensive ability), Gaff (pace, strength, right foot), Wellingham (winning own ball, general effort), Rosa (kicking, pace), Sheed (strength, experience), Masten (toughness, decision making, delivery into 50) are asked to go above and beyond what they are capable of doing then those weaknesses (in brackets) are completely exposed and we are seeing the result, and it is only magnified against the top teams. As a unit, they just aren't good enough to be an AFL challenger.

It's a shame in many ways because these are all guys that would thrive in the right midfield (yes, even Priddis), but they are all in a position where they are pushing s**t up a hill. This was identified on this board many years ago but wasn't addressed by the previous regime and Simpson and his coaches and recruiting staff need to start addressing it in this off season otherwise he won't be coach for much longer. Which will be disappointing because I really believe tactically he is very solid and he is coming from a great training base of success that is Kangaroo's in the late 90's and Hawthorn coaching in the last 6 years.

It has been shown time and time again that those who have been part of successful clubs in the past have a greater chance of becoming part of successful clubs in the future. But all that means a lick of s**t, because unless your recruiting and list management is good then you won't have the personnel and right now our midfield doesn't have the personnel and it's really hard to see who are the guys that can explode and become genuine A-graders. They just don't seem to exist on our list right now.

In many ways 2011 was the worst thing to happen to the club. Papered over a lot of problems, and in hindsight it would've taken two massive upsets in the PF and GF for us to jag that flag. There was a clear best three teams that year and we were the best of the rest a long way back.

Not a bad post and I agree with it but you v=can say the same about most midfielders of all clubs. The problem is that our future is in the kids and the longer we persevere with someone lie Priddis the worse our development will be. Can you imagine the angst by young players being judgen on their performance when someone like him is permitted to just stuff up game after game. I don't care if we finish on the bottom ....lets get rid of the crap and recruit and develop well.

 

[The Passenger]

Not a bad post and I agree with it but you v=can say the same about most midfielders of all clubs. The problem is that our future is in the kids and the longer we persevere with someone lie Priddis the worse our development will be. Can you imagine the angst by young players being judgen on their performance when someone like him is permitted to just stuff up game after game. I don't care if we finish on the bottom ....lets get rid of the crap and recruit and develop well.

Yep there is no doubt our game plan has been far too reliant on Priddis. Woosha thrust him into a role (pure midfielder, never back or forward, and #1 hit out target) that requires him to be a Scott Pendlebury. But he's no Pendles. If Pridd had've been developed with a much more all round game where he would play on a forward flank a fair bit, and maybe even go into defence when required and the load of #1 mid shared around then things might just be a lot different now.

That sucks because if Pridd had been given that role over the years we would consider him a great club warrior. The sort of bloke every club needs. But he was given a role far above what he is capable of. He's a top 50 player given a top 10 role. And when he comes up against those top 10 blokes 1-on-1 he gets exposed every single time. And so through really no fault of his own he has become the most divisive player this club has ever had.

 

[Masto]

That sucks because if Pridd had been given that role over the years we would consider him a great club warrior. The sort of bloke every club needs. But he was given a role far above what he is capable of. He's a top 50 player given a top 10 role. And when he comes up against those top 10 blokes 1-on-1 he gets exposed every single time. And so through really no fault of his own he has become the most divisive player this club has ever had.

Its more an indictment on our drafting and recruiting that we never developed a midfielder better than a rookie listed mature age player from Subiaco who was overlooked many times and was never meant to be more than our 4th best midfielder.

 

[QS]

I can't help but think there is was a real sense of "he'll do" as the flagship midfielder once the good midfield of 2006 were no longer around...

 

[The Passenger]

Its more an indictment on our drafting and recruiting that we never developed a midfielder better than a rookie listed mature age player from Subiaco who was overlooked many times and was never meant to be more than our 4th best midfielder.

A very over looked and brilliant point. Never really thought of it like that. We've had more than enough picks to nab the guy that we need.

I remember when Priddis first start coming through and there was with the issues with Cousins, then Judd left and Kerr's body was shot... As an aside it's gut wrenching to think after the flag Cuz, Judd and Kerr only ever played four games as a trio again... But anyway, there was a bit of excitement about Priddis. This guy is pretty handy, can get a lot of ball, his is good at the stoppages etc,. And that's all cool for a 22 year old... But his kicking was always a problem, and 8 years later we are still sitting here with the same problem... That's a real indictment on several people involved in our club including Priddis himself. Pace was also an issue but you can't fix that. You can get quicker but you can't go from slow to quick we all know that. But guys like Sam Mitchell have shown you don't need to be super fast to be a gun.

I guess you also look at our 2006 season. Priddis played 2 games. He was 21yo. yes he was a rookie and playing in a premiership team. But if you are going to be a leading a future premiership midfield (i.e. the most important player in a premiership team), you should at least be a best 22 player by the age of 21. Even if it's as a sixth stringer or a small forward (GAJ), you shouldn't be a genuine reserve grader at that age.

 

[Lach72]

I was high in the stands behind your race again today and was watching the structure around stoppages.
We always seemed to have a spare at each contest.

For one throw in I think in the second, Danyle Pearce jogged in behind the rucks waiting for the ball to come in. He literally looked around, saw he had no opponent, and as the ball was about to be thrown, he trotted boundary side, still by himself. Sandi knocked it straight to him on he move and away we went and kicked a goal.
Your half backs were very scared with pushing up and providing the option across the ground too.

 

[steve hucka]

I was high in the stands behind your race again today and was watching the structure around stoppages.
We always seemed to have a spare at each contest.

For one throw in I think in the second, Danyle Pearce jogged in behind the rucks waiting for the ball to come in. He literally looked around, saw he had no opponent, and as the ball was about to be thrown, he trotted boundary side, still by himself. Sandi knocked it straight to him on he move and away we went and kicked a goal.
Your half backs were very scared with pushing up and providing the option across the ground too.

Yeah we suck we know

 

[Sweet Jesus]

I think today was the day were this midfield was finally properly exposed to the wider AFL world. To me that can only be a good thing. Everyone knew it was a weak spot on the field for us, but to see it dismantled in such ruthless fashion would have been a real eye opener for some people, and probably even quite a few of our supporters.

I don't know why it would take that long for the penny to drop.

All the guys that run through the midfield are good footballers. But they all have weaknesses, some of them are major weaknesses at AFL level. Having a couple of real top liners means those good midfielders can play to their strengths and can be less concerned about their weaknesses. Unfortunately when guys like Shuey (shaking a tag, four quarter performances), Priddis (kicking, pace, defensive ability), Gaff (pace, strength, right foot), Wellingham (winning own ball, general effort), Rosa (kicking, pace), Sheed (strength, experience), Masten (toughness, decision making, delivery into 50) are asked to go above and beyond what they are capable of doing then those weaknesses (in brackets) are completely exposed and we are seeing the result, and it is only magnified against the top teams. As a unit, they just aren't good enough to be an AFL challenger.

Essentially, the midfield is less than the sum of its parts.

It's depressing.

The projected improvement simply has not come.

In many ways 2011 was the worst thing to happen to the club. Papered over a lot of problems, and in hindsight it would've taken two massive upsets in the PF and GF for us to jag that flag. There was a clear best three teams that year and we were the best of the rest a long way back.

Nah. Winning culture.

Without it, guys like Masten would not be the star he is today.

 

[MKMatty]

I just unleashed on the West Coast FB page. Damn it felt good.

 

[The Passenger]

I guess saying the midfield is not the sum of its parts is probably close to right. Most midfields in the competition are going through this. What we are seeing is that the value of a top-ten midfielder is exponentially larger than those guys who are just good midfielders. The value of those real elite mids doesn't go up in a linear fashion compared to those just below them... We haven't had a top ten midfielder since about Round 10 2007 when Judd's OP flared... except for some brief periods when Kerr looked to be back at his best only to be bought down by more injury.

Judging those genuinely elite players is a bit of a hard one to gauge... There are guys who are genuine top ten mids no matter what team they are in - Ablett, Pendles, Fyfe et al... Then there are other guys who are exceptionally good footballers but it's hard to tell whether they have made that step into elite level because they have improved as an individual, or whether they have numerous exceptionally good footballers around them and the right game plan to work within... I'd probably put a guy like Sam Mitchell in this category. For a guy like Mitchell it's probably a bit of both. The natural of improvement of coming into his prime in his late 20's as well as the general all round improvement of Hawthorn from 2011 to now.

 

[Here2tellyouwhy]

That first quarter was terrible. The kind of s**t a Melbourne member has come to expect over the years.
Melbourne's midfield took it to Adelaide yesterday. We were a bunch of *in witches hats.

It's only one game and they did improve, but boy it looked bad.
Plus it was made too look even worse with half our backline out.

Guys like Wellingham and Gaff are your Hill or D.Pearce not your Barlow and Fyfe.
We need a Barlow and Fyfe. Guys who can win the ball and use it well and have awareness and an attacking midset.
Then our well aged group of clean, semi quick outside ball users will be able to play to their strengths and win their one on one for the day.

Our closest thing to a big bodied mid who wins their own ball and get's it forward is NicNat.
Priddis can only fling it out. Shuey can only duck for frees.
Everyone else (except Yeo) shows no signs of becoming an A grade mid.

Nelson is showing how it's done to Butler and Shep in defence and Sheed looks more promising in the midfield then anyone.
Duggan showed more creative forward run in half a game last week then our whole midfield did today.

I don't think it's clean out time but without a couple of A grade mids we're clearly not going anywhere.
We should trade for some before our spine and KPP's trade themselves out.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

I don't think it's clean out time but without a couple of A grade mids we're clearly not going anywhere.
We should trade for some before our spine and KPP's trade themselves out.

How?

 

[Tom Kerrigan]

Since Yeo's the only younger midfielder that we reckon may be able to step into that elite bracket I can't see why we aren't permanently putting him IN the midfield? Sure we need him down back but we also clearly need him in the middle, and it doesn't feel like the MC and Simmo are shuffling things around enough to release him from defense. If we're set on playing Butler, play Bennell as well. Or use Mcinnes/Sinclair as the third tall so Yeo doesn't have to play on key forwards. Or swap him with Rosa, get Rosa to play Yeo's role down back. Or use McGinnity as a close-checking small back since I don't think he provides enough attacking flair to be a defensive forward.

There are so so many ways we could work around it and develop a good player in a key area for us but it seems WC want to stick with the same old dusty mids we've been using since 2008.

 

[Scotland]

I think Yeo would be playing in the midfield if we had someone else to play in defence.

I saw Yeo and Hurn matching up on Sandilands and Clarke at times today. That's how stretched we are.

 

[Scotland]

I guess you also look at our 2006 season. Priddis played 2 games. He was 21yo. yes he was a rookie and playing in a premiership team. But if you are going to be a leading a future premiership midfield (i.e. the most important player in a premiership team), you should at least be a best 22 player by the age of 21. Even if it's as a sixth stringer or a small forward (GAJ), you shouldn't be a genuine reserve grader at that age.

Priddis was only drafted in the 2006 Rookie Draft, so it's not like he was on our list for 3-4 years before getting a game. Michael Barlow was a rookie that debuted at 22 and turned out OK.

The point is where Priddis was drafted and how old he was when he debuted is irrelevant. He's played to the best of his abilities from 2007 to today and will keep doing so until either he retires or we stop picking him. He's the 'worst best' midfielder in the AFL and it's huge indictment on the club that we haven't identified and developed anyone better in 8 seasons.

 

[West123]

To be fair we need to play these blokes in the best way possible to maximise their trade value.

Masten for a top 20 pick? Or am I too ambitious?

 

[Falco]

To be fair we need to play these blokes in the best way possible to maximise their trade value.

Masten for a top 20 pick? Or am I too ambitious?

Mate I don't reckon we'd get a top 20 for Masten. Somewhere around the 25-40 mark is what you'd get for him. If anyone's going to go for him, it'd be a club in their premiership window - he's an icing on the cake outside mid. Even then I'd think it would be tough to find a club interested in him.

 

[Eaglemaniac]

We have talls, McInnes and whats his name (the other ruckman) playing in the WAFL. Get them in, play them in defence and put Yeo in the bloody middle. If you control the middle you control the game, so keeping Yeo in the backline is sticking a finger in the dyke and hoping it wont burst. Get him in the guts, and let him win the ball so its not going into our backline as much.

 

[liam123]

Happy with the post match press conference. Simmo is going to hammer them this week. Listened to priddis post match "full credit to the boys we won't the last half a game...therefore we know we can match it with the best we just need to do it for 4 qrts"

Is he seriously so dumb? Don't try to sell us that s**t...glad simmo is coach otherwise I'd prob be losing my s**t right now

 

[dajesmac]

Perhaps in the second half of the year one of Barrass, McInnes or Powell could come into the side as a defender to release Yeo into the guts. Ellis should be back either this week or next but we need someone to match up on talls.

 

[Lach72]

Priddis was only drafted in the 2006 Rookie Draft, so it's not like he was on our list for 3-4 years before getting a game. Michael Barlow was a rookie that debuted at 22 and turned out OK.

The question is the different ability of Barlow and Priddis as you say. Priddis short and slow, with short average disposal. Barlow before his leg snapped could run in an endurance fashion, but could also do 20m sub 3 secons, can kick fifty and is 6'3

 

[75Cardies]

Ruck: sinclair
Rovers: Priddis NicNat Yeo / Paddy
Centre: Shuey Masten Gaff ...wellers / rosa / sheed
CHB: Lycett

• solves issues of big bodies in middle who can either win possession or pressure opposition first possession. adds touch of hardness, don't need to rely on footskills as much.
• allows players play their natural position ie outside run of masten gaff shuey wellers et al rather than try and make them all inside extractors which clearly they aren't.
• lycett is big and mobile can play chb and then pinch hit ruck/fwd but mainly CHB and stoppages in back half
• around grounds can have good third man up option with NN if required to supply outside mids
• for sheed to play in same team as priddis may need to add a string to his bow in short term.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

I think Yeo would be playing in the midfield if we had someone else to play in defence.

I saw Yeo and Hurn matching up on Sandilands and Clarke at times today. That's how stretched we are.

And Clarke tore Hurn a new one. Why not let him tear someone else a new one - and use Hurn in an attacking mode.

Personally I'd rather see Rosa/Wellingham/Hill in the backline and let Hurn and Yeo attack