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WA Lion said:
Yeah, as much as I am a fan, I would be surprised if Claye Beams is in there R1, and I would have to disagree with you RE Close. I think he starts the season in the 2's.

Plus the other thing to remember for all fans is that team is picked assuming no injuries! That simply doesn't happen at the Lions!
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Re Close he is our best moving big forward, he could be a classic new age CHF. But his game sense is lacking and I dont like some of the patterns he runs, hopefully he has used the 12 months to study the game. I think he will be there. Walker, Freeman, Schache cant cover the ground Close does.
 
chopperduck said:
Those talking about weights need to think about where they are getting their info from. Anything you find on Close is likely to be start of the 2015 season measurements.
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If that. I very much doubt keeping height and weight stats current on the club website is a high priority. Other than footy trainspotters, no one else really cares if a player is half a kilo heavier than last season.
 

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Skoob said:
Michael Close: 15 Games, 10 Goals.
Josh Schache: 0 Games, 0 Goals.:rolleyes:



Is weight and build the same thing? Does weight = strength? I wouldn't think so.

I'm not running Schache down here, but some think he is the messiah and whilst he may eventually prove to be (we all hope so), he has a lot of development to go. Being super in an under 18 carnival doesn't make you an automatic AFL star.
Jordan Lisle regularly ripped it up in the NEAFL.
Sam Grimley just won the VFL's Frosty medal along side Lisle. It means nothing in terms of getting AFL games.

Other than that, I was using Close v Schache as an example.

I was illustrating the fact that there is more to consider than who was drafted higher or kicked the most goals last year. Comparing a skinny kid who hasn't played a game with an older kid who has played 15 games and done okay but hasn't played for a year is a bit more involved than the approach I think most are taking. When Close hits the field next year, it'll have been about 12 months since he played and whilst Schache has played plenty of footy in the past year, he has played with schoolboys.
Either could be anything, and my point remains that "Best 22" lists make a lot of assumptions with a lot of guessing.*

EDIT: * Including Close's weight.
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If Schache has a similar first year to McCartin... watch out, they'll be out for blood. Realistically, Schache playing 10 games and kicking a few goals would be a decent result for us.
 
carnthemlions said:
If Schache has a similar first year to McCartin... watch out, they'll be out for blood. Realistically, Schache playing 10 games and kicking a few goals would be a decent result for us.
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Sorry - who is the 'they' that will be out for blood in this instance?
 
Close has also played most of his games in a pretty terrible functioning forward line. With the quality we have in the middle now, i think you would see an improvement in his game simply from team improvement.

Think it was rd4 he did his knee, and im pretty sure he is tracking ahead with his rehab and should be right by rd1, but id still be carefull with him. Think he can get his way into the senior team pretty quickly.
 
carnthemlions said:
If Schache has a similar first year to McCartin... watch out, they'll be out for blood. Realistically, Schache playing 10 games and kicking a few goals would be a decent result for us.
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Who?:cool:

Exactly. There must be a thousand posts across this forum, about how KPP take time to develop, but apparently Schache who hasn't even trained with the Lions is Jonno Brown, ready to go and Close, after playing half a season is just no good.:rolleyes:
 
Put me in the Schache starting the season in reserves camp too. Did Browny even get a senior game in his first year? I think a handful of games at the back end of the season would be more than sufficient, unless of course he is booting 3-6 goals a week and looking bored in the NEAFL.
For me the three tall forwards to start will be Walker, Freeman and McStay. Im very bullish about McStays ability to hit the scoreboard regularly without being a primary target. Will need to lift his workload though.
 
scoman said:
For me the three tall forwards to start will be Walker, Freeman and McStay.
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This is how I have it too, for the moment.

Be great if Schache tore apart the preseason and demanded a spot but, as a default position, I'm pretty happy to go with guys who've been in the system for a little while.
 
I don't think poster were saying Schache is best 22, but that he is a better player than Close. I'd also have Freeman, Walker and McStay as likely round 1 forwards if they train well and are injury free. Of course things can change if Schache or Close 'train the house down' so to speak. It really is a open forward line with spots available to those who hit the training track hardest. Can't say anyone is a lock ATM.
 

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Seriously!!! KPF's?

We ran 2nd last in season 2015. The only time our forward line looked anything like effective was when a bloke literally on his last legs [McGuane] and another [Adcock] whose ebbing, residual footy smarts enabled him to run the lines despite rarely ever having played forward. Both these blokes made an immediate, clearly observable difference to our forward line.

Injuries accepted, what does this say about our aspiring young KPF's? Not a great deal IMHO. I reckon JB's presence hid a multitude of sins.

That's not bagging the young blokes- that's reality. And trust me- there was precious little left in the NEAFL.

Close can run- he seems a fast, mobile type. But right now he can't kick to save himself. Freeman can kick but there's still a lot of work to be done there. McStay has a great leap, but lacks stamina, run, hardness and application at the non-glamour side of things and despite what others say I think lacks any defensive side whatsoever.

Based on the little evidence available, Schache seems a natural forward with a reliable, long kick. If he stacks up ok over the pre-season he'll be a shoo-in for the big boys. That's not to say he'll be the full package straight up- that's simply not realistic- but it's been a long time since we had access to what appears to be a premium KPF, so here's hoping.

And having Walker alongside him will relieve the pressure a lot.
 
Tassie4ever said:
Seriously!!! KPF's?

We ran 2nd last in season 2015. The only time our forward line looked anything like effective was when a bloke literally on his last legs [McGuane] and another [Adcock] whose ebbing, residual footy smarts enabled him to run the lines despite rarely ever having played forward. Both these blokes made an immediate, clearly observable difference to our forward line.

Injuries accepted, what does this say about our aspiring young KPF's? Not a great deal IMHO. I reckon JB's presence hid a multitude of sins.

That's not bagging the young blokes- that's reality. And trust me- there was precious little left in the NEAFL.

Close can run- he seems a fast, mobile type. But right now he can't kick to save himself. Freeman can kick but there's still a lot of work to be done there. McStay has a great leap, but lacks stamina, run, hardness and application at the non-glamour side of things and despite what others say I think lacks any defensive side whatsoever.

Based on the little evidence available, Schache seems a natural forward with a reliable, long kick. If he stacks up ok over the pre-season he'll be a shoo-in for the big boys. That's not to say he'll be the full package straight up- that's simply not realistic- but it's been a long time since we had access to what appears to be a premium KPF, so here's hoping.

And having Walker alongside him will relieve the pressure a lot.
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What does last season have to do with it? We spent most of the year having to use McStay as our no.1 target with Leuenberger as a decoy forward of some sort. Based on the little evidence available, I think assuming that Schache will automatically leapfrog everyone is extremely premature. Patience.
 
I don't see a reason why Schache wouldn't start round 1.

He has the talent to do so.... Strength won't determine what forwards are selected. It's who Leppa thinks can kick the most goals....

....and with Schache's supreme kicking you'd imagine he'd be high on the list.

I know KPP can take time to develop... But look at what Andrews did in his first year.

This kids has more talent than our current crop at this point.... All he lacks is senior AFL experience and conditioning... And there's only one way to get that.

Unless he's way off the mark during the off season.... I think Schache will start round 1.

We'll definitely see him in the NAB cup.
 
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I am one who is against Scache playing in Round 1, we are probably going to get spanked in Perth by the Eagles. I would rather see the guy debut in on his home ground in front of a friendly crowd, IMO we will be competative against North in round 2, a better place for the guy to ease him into the AFL.
 
He has played against kids all his life. After he has kicked a few bags in the ressies.....maybe. No hurry tho. Crawl, walk, run - yanno.
 
I think we'll be looking to pump games into Schache regardless to try and fast track his development. Even if he isn't quite ready next year I think he'll be in the team with an eye on 2018-20, that little window before we start to lose Hanley, Zorko, Rocky and Beams. I think we have to bank on the idea that he will be a very good player once he's played 60-70 games and just blood him. Once Close has played 60-70 however, he could be good but he also might not be.
 
No point in putting kids in before they are ready, does more harm than good. I am not specifically saying Schache is not ready because there is a lot of time to play out before the season starts. But putting games into kids for the sake of it doesnt make sense.
 
winged1 said:
No point in putting kids in before they are ready, does more harm than good. I am not specifically saying Schache is not ready because there is a lot of time to play out before the season starts. But putting games into kids for the sake of it doesnt make sense.
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I don't think putting games into a number 2 draft pick who performed like Schache has as a Junior could qualify as "putting games into him for the sake of it".

He is an elite talent drafted. The club has extremely high expectations of him in 2-3 years.... The only way he'll get to that level is by playing/banking senior games....

The Elite talent is no doubt there.... Just needs the game hardening experience
 
ColdWarWarrior said:
I am one who is against Scache playing in Round 1, we are probably going to get spanked in Perth by the Eagles. I would rather see the guy debut in on his home ground in front of a friendly crowd, IMO we will be competative against North in round 2, a better place for the guy to ease him into the AFL.
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Pretty sure norf will spank us at the gabba. So we might as well play him against the eagles.
 
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