Are there still people on this board that don't think we need one?
That was a finals style game today & defenders who can spoil big blokes are gold....
That was a finals style game today & defenders who can spoil big blokes are gold....
Big defender aka where various journos do research but fail to acknowledge sources...
- Thread starter Jason Dunstall
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Re: Big defender
Schoey ain't it yet. Pods and Hawkins both slaughtered him and there was minimal help. Hawkins had a personal best in marks today....in the wet...WTF also it'd be nice if our key forwards were key forwards not tall flankers trying to shark it out the back.
Schoey ain't it yet. Pods and Hawkins both slaughtered him and there was minimal help. Hawkins had a personal best in marks today....in the wet...WTF also it'd be nice if our key forwards were key forwards not tall flankers trying to shark it out the back.
Killer Hawks
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Re: Big defender
And dont get me started about Schoenmakers
His opponents ,and his mistakes account for 7 of Geelongs goals.
He is constantly second to the ball,always reacting to his opponent.........he certainly doesnt read the flight of it.
I dont see a confident defender.
He has been a liability in all of Hawthorns big games the past 2 years
And dont get me started about Schoenmakers
His opponents ,and his mistakes account for 7 of Geelongs goals.
He is constantly second to the ball,always reacting to his opponent.........he certainly doesnt read the flight of it.
I dont see a confident defender.
He has been a liability in all of Hawthorns big games the past 2 years
Re: Big defender
Between Boumann, Gibson, Stratton, Roughead and Gilham, no, I don't believe we need any more big defenders.
Schoey is clearly a more natural forward who I'd like to see line up on the half forward line somewhere for a few straight weeks (if not, then maybe Box Hill for a bit of confidence). Something like this please;
FB: Guerra Boumann Gibson
HB: Stratton Roughead Birchall
HF: Schoenmakers Franklin Rioli
FF: Breust Hale Gunston
Ru: McCauly
Either of Buddy, Gunston or even Schoey to play out of the square when Hale rucks, or maybe McCauly, with Franklin or Gunston pushing up the ground.
Between Boumann, Gibson, Stratton, Roughead and Gilham, no, I don't believe we need any more big defenders.
Schoey is clearly a more natural forward who I'd like to see line up on the half forward line somewhere for a few straight weeks (if not, then maybe Box Hill for a bit of confidence). Something like this please;
FB: Guerra Boumann Gibson
HB: Stratton Roughead Birchall
HF: Schoenmakers Franklin Rioli
FF: Breust Hale Gunston
Ru: McCauly
Either of Buddy, Gunston or even Schoey to play out of the square when Hale rucks, or maybe McCauly, with Franklin or Gunston pushing up the ground.
Re: Big defender
Don't just blame Schoey. Gibson was terrible, Stratton was pretty bad. Pods, Hawkins and Johnson kicked 11 of their 14 goals. There were some pretty pathetic attempts at manning the mark. Just a poor effort all round from our defenders.
Don't just blame Schoey. Gibson was terrible, Stratton was pretty bad. Pods, Hawkins and Johnson kicked 11 of their 14 goals. There were some pretty pathetic attempts at manning the mark. Just a poor effort all round from our defenders.
- Thread starter
- #6
Re: Big defender
I'm not prepared to give up on him at all, but he isn't helping us at the moment in this scenario against that type of power forward.
Unfortunately big (good) defenders don't grow on trees...
PS. our back half plan today was ordinary, & those guys got little help in third man up scenarios.
I'm not prepared to give up on him at all, but he isn't helping us at the moment in this scenario against that type of power forward.
Unfortunately big (good) defenders don't grow on trees...
PS. our back half plan today was ordinary, & those guys got little help in third man up scenarios.
Re: Big defender
That was the worst performance by a backman i've seen in along time....and the only other performance was Zac Dawson against the Big Fev wearing Hawthorn jumper.....I would take a Longergan/Merret over a Shoenmakers any day....this guy has had ample chance to develop....when u get a guy like this getting comprehensively beaten....it brings team morale down ...cos everytime u know the ball goes into his area it will end up in a geelong score....,this is de javu happened last year again...its nice to see clarko has stuck to him old game plan....we are a leaking siv with shoenmakers at the back...roughie needs to have a crack at the back...that's were we are falling down...
That was the worst performance by a backman i've seen in along time....and the only other performance was Zac Dawson against the Big Fev wearing Hawthorn jumper.....I would take a Longergan/Merret over a Shoenmakers any day....this guy has had ample chance to develop....when u get a guy like this getting comprehensively beaten....it brings team morale down ...cos everytime u know the ball goes into his area it will end up in a geelong score....,this is de javu happened last year again...its nice to see clarko has stuck to him old game plan....we are a leaking siv with shoenmakers at the back...roughie needs to have a crack at the back...that's were we are falling down...
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Re: Big defender
No we don't. We have him on the list already, it's just more fun to play a mental pygmy like Schoenclangers down there instead of him and get angry when he physically gets rag dolled.
After Gunston's recruitment I really thought Rough would go to FB and we'd be kicking ourselves for not doing it 18 months ago. But hey, let's stick at it for another 5 Geelong losses, it might come good yet!
In saying that, a Big Defender doesn't stop senior players squibbing contests and missing easy shots for goal.
No we don't. We have him on the list already, it's just more fun to play a mental pygmy like Schoenclangers down there instead of him and get angry when he physically gets rag dolled.
After Gunston's recruitment I really thought Rough would go to FB and we'd be kicking ourselves for not doing it 18 months ago. But hey, let's stick at it for another 5 Geelong losses, it might come good yet!
In saying that, a Big Defender doesn't stop senior players squibbing contests and missing easy shots for goal.
Jiggystoon
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Re: Big defender
When we play the likes of Geelong or Collingwood with here big bodied forwards Schoenmakers shouldnt be allowed anywhere near them, Boumann needs to be the one, even sacrificing Roughead back there would be a better idea, Gunston and Hale to play key forward with Buddy
When we play the likes of Geelong or Collingwood with here big bodied forwards Schoenmakers shouldnt be allowed anywhere near them, Boumann needs to be the one, even sacrificing Roughead back there would be a better idea, Gunston and Hale to play key forward with Buddy
Max Powers
Yes, I can hear you Clem Fandango!
Re: Big defender
Bring back Boumann he may be seasoned but hes willing to go to a contest! and show a bit.
Bring back Boumann he may be seasoned but hes willing to go to a contest! and show a bit.
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Re: Big defender
Schoey just cant wrestle physically with the big forwards. He is a big boy himself but doesnt know how to use it. And honestly Boumann wouldntve done any better today in those situations. Boumann is not a big boy physically and his best work is with his pace and leap I dont think he is ready either to wrestle with the likes of Hawkins or Cloke.
Schoey just cant wrestle physically with the big forwards. He is a big boy himself but doesnt know how to use it. And honestly Boumann wouldntve done any better today in those situations. Boumann is not a big boy physically and his best work is with his pace and leap I dont think he is ready either to wrestle with the likes of Hawkins or Cloke.
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Re: Big defender
Good call...
The guys we have aren't up to it on the biggger bodies and given it was wet and windy that gap would have been even more on a dry day.
We need to settle Big Rough at CHB/FB....pray Gilly is back very soon and move Schoenmakers forward or to BH.
So frustrating its not even funny
Good call...
The guys we have aren't up to it on the biggger bodies and given it was wet and windy that gap would have been even more on a dry day.
We need to settle Big Rough at CHB/FB....pray Gilly is back very soon and move Schoenmakers forward or to BH.
So frustrating its not even funny
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Re: Big defender
I see what your saying but really, he couldn't have done any worse either.
Not having a go at Schoey here, I'm sure he'd be the first to tell us what a shocker he had today. Play the boy forward I say. Brant, bring back the sig!
I see what your saying but really, he couldn't have done any worse either.
Not having a go at Schoey here, I'm sure he'd be the first to tell us what a shocker he had today. Play the boy forward I say. Brant, bring back the sig!
Strapping Young Lad
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Re: Big defender
We had our "big defender" out there today, but chose to play him elsewhere.
We had our "big defender" out there today, but chose to play him elsewhere.
Re: Big defender
With the right structures and personnel around them, I believe a combination of Boumann, Gibson, Roughead and Gilham can more than hold it's own against the power forwards of the comp.
Unfortunately, those stuctures and some of the personnel weren't in place today.
If your asking me who can match it with those types of big power forwards one on one and with decent delivery, I can't think of many in the league who can, let alone at Hawthorn.
With the right structures and personnel around them, I believe a combination of Boumann, Gibson, Roughead and Gilham can more than hold it's own against the power forwards of the comp.
Unfortunately, those stuctures and some of the personnel weren't in place today.
If your asking me who can match it with those types of big power forwards one on one and with decent delivery, I can't think of many in the league who can, let alone at Hawthorn.
- Aug 15, 2005
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Re: Big defender
Yeah but if Bouman showed more last week rather then getting subbed im sure he would've been in. You cant blame Clarko for selecting Schoey over the subbed out Bouman. Now I wouldnt blame him for the swap this week, but you cant tell me Bouman demanded a spot over Schoey from the Collingwood performance. Schoey would always be the likely choice against Hawkins as he is physically bigger then Bouman and Stratts.
I see what your saying but really, he couldn't have done any worse either.
Not having a go at Schoey here, I'm sure he'd be the first to tell us what a shocker he had today. Play the boy forward I say. Brant, bring back the sig!
Yeah but if Bouman showed more last week rather then getting subbed im sure he would've been in. You cant blame Clarko for selecting Schoey over the subbed out Bouman. Now I wouldnt blame him for the swap this week, but you cant tell me Bouman demanded a spot over Schoey from the Collingwood performance. Schoey would always be the likely choice against Hawkins as he is physically bigger then Bouman and Stratts.
THEHIGHFLYINGHAWKER
All Australian
Re: Big defender
i've said it a million times, shoenmakers is not upto it. time to give someone else a go. he is a total liability. why we keep persisting i have no idea? Jordan Lisle looked comfortable down there last year and we traded him away. silly.
i've said it a million times, shoenmakers is not upto it. time to give someone else a go. he is a total liability. why we keep persisting i have no idea? Jordan Lisle looked comfortable down there last year and we traded him away. silly.
Max Powers
Yes, I can hear you Clem Fandango!
Re: Big defender
Damn right i would rather give boumann the benefit of the doubt then give shoey hes third year of failure costing us games. Im sorry but shoenmakers has been givin his chances and he has failed enough is enough!
Damn right i would rather give boumann the benefit of the doubt then give shoey hes third year of failure costing us games. Im sorry but shoenmakers has been givin his chances and he has failed enough is enough!
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Re: Big defender
As Tom Harley says every time we play the Cats:
I'd be isolating whoever plays on Schoenmakers.
Surprise, suprise, they do.
As Tom Harley says every time we play the Cats:
I'd be isolating whoever plays on Schoenmakers.
Surprise, suprise, they do.
Henry Jr
Norm Smith Medallist
Re: Big defender
Shoey is 21
Its alright for people having a crack at him, but atleast offer up an alternative.
For what its worth, I thought he went alright last week against Cloke. Stratts doesn't seem to be zoning off and helping either Shoey nor Gibbo out. Other teams are getting smarter are moving their forwards wider.
For mine, Roughead and Hodge need to play back. He showed today that he brings a calmness to the backline.
Shoey is 21
Its alright for people having a crack at him, but atleast offer up an alternative.
For what its worth, I thought he went alright last week against Cloke. Stratts doesn't seem to be zoning off and helping either Shoey nor Gibbo out. Other teams are getting smarter are moving their forwards wider.
For mine, Roughead and Hodge need to play back. He showed today that he brings a calmness to the backline.
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Re: Big defender
Jason, you are peeing into the wind there will always be those on this board who will seek any excuse on why we lost the game without facing up to the fact that our back line is simply too small, too short, too weak and ineffectual in the face of a determined opposition.
The philosophy of short and light defenders coming out of defence with pinpoint passing instead of big defenders who can MARK and contest against big forwards will probably culminate in the most frustratingly wasted five years that any team could experience during their “window of opportunity”. To play to Clarko’s philosophy the player needs the ball in his hand and time for accurate disposal. If he can’t mark it or win it on the ground then how is he going to get the ball – an act of God?
And ,it is not just our defenders who are hopelessly mismatched in the air, it is also our complete inability to take contested marks around the ground and then add to that the inability of our forward line to take contested marks and our cause is close to hopeless.
Take a contested mark and you own the bloody ball. You can slow down the play, play on, if loose options are not available, kick to player/players who can take a mark. By continuously forcing the ball to the ground, we are placing continuous pressure on our midfield. If our mids do not win the contested melee then so many will blame them. Hey, the fault lies with the fact that we have nobody who can pluck the ball out of the air.
It does not really matter what posters think. It is what Clarkson thinks that matters and whilst he persists with the current model, disaster is the most likely outcome.
Jason, you are peeing into the wind there will always be those on this board who will seek any excuse on why we lost the game without facing up to the fact that our back line is simply too small, too short, too weak and ineffectual in the face of a determined opposition.
The philosophy of short and light defenders coming out of defence with pinpoint passing instead of big defenders who can MARK and contest against big forwards will probably culminate in the most frustratingly wasted five years that any team could experience during their “window of opportunity”. To play to Clarko’s philosophy the player needs the ball in his hand and time for accurate disposal. If he can’t mark it or win it on the ground then how is he going to get the ball – an act of God?
And ,it is not just our defenders who are hopelessly mismatched in the air, it is also our complete inability to take contested marks around the ground and then add to that the inability of our forward line to take contested marks and our cause is close to hopeless.
Take a contested mark and you own the bloody ball. You can slow down the play, play on, if loose options are not available, kick to player/players who can take a mark. By continuously forcing the ball to the ground, we are placing continuous pressure on our midfield. If our mids do not win the contested melee then so many will blame them. Hey, the fault lies with the fact that we have nobody who can pluck the ball out of the air.
It does not really matter what posters think. It is what Clarkson thinks that matters and whilst he persists with the current model, disaster is the most likely outcome.
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