Autopsy Round 7, 2023 : Hawks go down to Dogs

[Strapping Young Lad]

 

[Dewyyyyy]

I think the two things for mine where he has not really been up to his usual for mine is using his kicking to open the game up for us. He’s an absolute elite kick but he has hardly used it this year instead chipping the ball around.

I also feel his intercept marking is down. Partially because he’s played a more lockdown role out of necessity.

But those are his two biggest strengths and he hasn’t quite been able to utilise them this year.

Not that he’s been poor just not quite to his usual standard.

He's intercept marking the exact same as last year, he's slightly down on pure intercept possessions, and he's down on metres gained (which explains the opening up of the game)

Don't agree with the first as much, because he looks like the best intercept mark in the comp when he's playing with 2 other key defenders (DGB, Blanck, Frost or Weddle?) because he's able to trust them to take his opponent if it doesn't work out aswell, which in some games we didn't have that, so he was more man on man, or he'd do the same thing but it'd * up and he'd be in a completely wrong position.

His kicking at times has been elite, like he's still an elite kick, he just hasn't done it as much, and as mentioned feel like it's been mainly due to our lack of field structure, which looked much better against the Dogs and i noticed his kicking alot more.

He's still having a very good season, and if we were higher on the ladder he'd be making the AA team, and he was absolutely snubbed last year despite being the best in the comp. If we can continue to improve and the two things mentioned can be more pronounced and especially his dominant kicking, while keeping up his great start defensively, he'll be pushing for it once again.

 

[MasterSamurai]

Sicily has been fine but I still think he'd be beast as the third defender roaming as he wishes. This is why blanck is so important as that would mean either of Frost or dgb could take the second kpd role to release Sicily to do his thing. İt wil settle in time

 

[H00t]

He's intercept marking the exact same as last year, he's slightly down on pure intercept possessions, and he's down on metres gained (which explains the opening up of the game)

Don't agree with the first as much, because he looks like the best intercept mark in the comp when he's playing with 2 other key defenders (DGB, Blanck, Frost or Weddle?) because he's able to trust them to take his opponent if it doesn't work out aswell, which in some games we didn't have that, so he was more man on man, or he'd do the same thing but it'd * up and he'd be in a completely wrong position.

His kicking at times has been elite, like he's still an elite kick, he just hasn't done it as much, and as mentioned feel like it's been mainly due to our lack of field structure, which looked much better against the Dogs and i noticed his kicking alot more.

He's still having a very good season, and if we were higher on the ladder he'd be making the AA team, and he was absolutely snubbed last year despite being the best in the comp. If we can continue to improve and the two things mentioned can be more pronounced and especially his dominant kicking, while keeping up his great start defensively, he'll be pushing for it once again.

I’m not saying he’s no longer an elite kick. Just that he’s not using it nearly as often as he should. Instead he’s playing it safe chipping it around and it ends up being Frost taking the game on.

I did look up the stats and he’s averaging more intercept marks which I thought surprising. Frosty has the same as him which is interesting.

Also I’m surprised he was outside the top 10 for intercept marks last year. Which leads me to think I’ve been overestimating his performance last year especially compared to this year.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

I’m not saying he’s no longer an elite kick. Just that he’s not using it nearly as often as he should. Instead he’s playing it safe chipping it around and it ends up being Frost taking the game on.

I did look up the stats and he’s averaging more intercept marks which I thought surprising. Frosty has the same as him which is interesting.

Also I’m surprised he was outside the top 10 for intercept marks last year. Which leads me to think I’ve been overestimating his performance last year especially compared to this year.

His intercept game last year was still massive, because yes he wasn't top 10 for intercept marks, he was for intercept possessions, because he'd often read the ball better at ground level as well as in the air.

 

[smeltitdeltit]

I’ve been looking through Oppo boards last couple of weeks after our last 3 losses and the general consensus has been the same every week.

“Wins a win”
“Sometimes you have to win ugly”

We’ve turned a bit of a corner in terms of being quite hard to play against, all 3 teams have played brands of footy they really never set up to play. The offensive aspect looks a while off but the first half yesterday I felt like I could finally sort of see what’s being built for the first time.

The midfield turnaround this year has been chefs kiss and it’s been a lot more enjoyable to watch than the last couple of years. They’re gonna win some games of footy these boys

Did you quote both GWS fans ?

 

[threesixpio]

Post Sicily captain vibes

 

[Dewyyyyy]

*, Ned speaks really really well, I’m super impressed, don’t know where he sits in terms of leadership but it seems like from this he would be a great part of it, just so impressive.

 

[triple treat]

Jaeger was touted as the next big thing when Gold Coast got him in the mini-draft - then he won the Rising Star and the expectations were mental. Two knees later and we all know what happened. This is why I’d prefer a winning culture over finishing last for a gamble on a player who mightn’t live up to the potential.

Not having a go here, but how can you seem to know the mindset of our players that finishing last will not build culture? When it could just as easily do the exact opposite!
I sit there watching each week, screaming at the TV wanting us to win but also ( clearly knowing we won’t play finals ) just want to see a winning game plan and exciting kids showing good signs ( and then losing by a point). I have no problems with the team finishing lasts if it fast tracks the next flag.

 

[KermitJagger]

Not having a go here, but how can you seem to know the mindset of our players that finishing last will not build culture? When it could just as easily do the exact opposite!
I sit there watching each week, screaming at the TV wanting us to win but also ( clearly knowing we won’t play finals ) just want to see a winning game plan and exciting kids showing good signs ( and then losing by a point). I have no problems with the team finishing lasts if it fast tracks the next flag.

Finishing last is objectively a bad thing, history proves it. Since 2000 the shortest distance between a wooden spoon and a flag is 8 years, West Coast in 2010 to a flag in 2018. Before that it was Brisbane from 98 to 2001, but that Brisbane team is an outlier example given their circumstances.

 

[triple treat]

Finishing last is objectively a bad thing, history proves it. Since 2000 the shortest distance between a wooden spoon and a flag is 8 years, West Coast in 2010 to a flag in 2018. Before that it was Brisbane from 98 to 2001, but that Brisbane team is an outlier example given their circumstances.

Can you do me a favour and see the shortest distance between finishing 2nd last, 3rd last ,4 last etc to a flag is.
By the way I’m not saying “I hope we finish last” I’m saying it doesn’t faze me like some on here and I don’t think it’ll have a negative impact on the playing group, as long as they are competitive and believe in the game plan the Mitchell is selling them!

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Can you do me a favour and see the shortest distance between finishing 2nd last, 3rd last ,4 last etc to a flag is.
By the way I’m not saying “I hope we finish last” I’m saying it doesn’t faze me like some on here and I don’t think it’ll have a negative impact on the playing group, as long as they are competitive and believe in the game plan the Mitchell is selling them!

Have a look at the current footy served up by Fremantle, West Coast and Norf. If we finish below all 3 of them do you really think we will have been playing good, constructive and competitive footy. People who are so sad that we won’t finish below these teams this year must want us to play some absolutely miserable footy. I’m content with the rebuilding and that it comes with a lot of losing - but if you want to sit through the Swans game all year just to get Harley Reid then you’re a sick puppy.

 

[H00t]

Does anyone happen to have the stats for our ball movement whether we are using the wings or going more down the centre?

From looking it seems we are using the wings almost exclusively. And relying on switching the ball to move it around the defence of the opposition.

Watching the top teams this year they open teams up with quick kicks into the middle that open the whole ground up.

Something we haven’t done much of at all. We have the elite users of the ball in our back half to do it as well.

 

[burner1]

Does anyone happen to have the stats for our ball movement whether we are using the wings or going more down the centre?

From looking it seems we are using the wings almost exclusively. And relying on switching the ball to move it around the defence of the opposition.

Watching the top teams this year they open teams up with quick kicks into the middle that open the whole ground up.

Something we haven’t done much of at all. We have the elite users of the ball in our back half to do it as well.

The first few weeks we were using corridor almost exclusively- and getting carved up on the turnover. We’ve moved to a more conservative approach which appears to be working better.

 

[Billyc]

Finishing last is objectively a bad thing, history proves it. Since 2000 the shortest distance between a wooden spoon and a flag is 8 years, West Coast in 2010 to a flag in 2018. Before that it was Brisbane from 98 to 2001, but that Brisbane team is an outlier example given their circumstances.

I’m no fan of finishing last, but the reason finishing last is historically a bad thing is because bad sides with terrible lists finish last. If for example the exact same list and side finishes 17th as opposed to 18th based on a bit of percentage or one late season win is hardly going to make any long term cultural difference

 

[Yardie]

Be clear, I am one of those people who want my team to win 5 games this year and … finish last (because the guy is that good)

Finishing last means nothing! Who cares? The position on the ladder does not matter if it does not say Premiers.

Finishing 10th…. now that is a ladder position means something = that a team that is either on the way to challenging or is stuck in a rut that they will not get out of. St Kilda, for all their ladder position, are in that rut. Ross will not change that.

So yes Ned, your need to not finish last irrespective of development is weird.

John Kennedy Snr DOES NOT approve this opinion.

I think you may need to revisit our history to understand why a spoon is unacceptable.

 

[SJT76]

I’m no fan of finishing last, but the reason finishing last is historically a bad thing is because bad sides with terrible lists finish last. If for example the exact same list and side finishes 17th as opposed to 18th based on a bit of percentage or one late season win is hardly going to make any long term cultural difference

So, don’t actually be s**t and finish last? That’s tanking - no thanks

 

[KermitJagger]

I’m no fan of finishing last, but the reason finishing last is historically a bad thing is because bad sides with terrible lists finish last. If for example the exact same list and side finishes 17th as opposed to 18th based on a bit of percentage or one late season win is hardly going to make any long term cultural difference

The lists are only terrible / not terrible in retrospect. At the time of finishing last, most of them would have been filled with promising players with plenty of hope. There is a certain amount of damage that being in a poor team can do to players.

Players like Jack Watts, Jack Trengove, Cale Morton etc. They weren't destined to be bad players, but being in a team that doesn't win can cause mental demons (lol) that are pretty difficult to get over.

I don't think there's any part of finishing last which is a good thing, whether tanking or as indication of a bad list.

 

[Billyc]

The lists are only terrible / not terrible in retrospect. At the time of finishing last, most of them would have been filled with promising players with plenty of hope. There is a certain amount of damage that being in a poor team can do to players.

Players like Jack Watts, Jack Trengove, Cale Morton etc. They weren't destined to be bad players, but being in a team that doesn't win can cause mental demons (lol) that are pretty difficult to get over.

I don't think there's any part of finishing last which is a good thing, whether tanking or as indication of a bad list.

I don't want to finish last because it would inevitably involve sitting through more of the dross we served up in the first month and that was intolerable. The side that finishes last will dish up more that sort of stuff, as we did in the first few weeks, and North and West Coast did on the weekend. No thanks.

But if it comes to round 23 and the season has been a complete disaster and we're talking percentage or one game to determine who finishes 18th or 17th, I wouldn't care at that stage. The ladder position itself doesn't mean much.

 

[grumbleguts]

Grumble, you know who I am talking about !

Yes I do, just taking the p!ss.

 

[PenAndPaper]

Finishing last can also help players with their decision to request a trade or explore free agency to move to a team they think are contending which ends up hurting that team that finished last.

 

[TheFourPillars]

I don't want to finish last because it would inevitably involve sitting through more of the dross we served up in the first month and that was intolerable. The side that finishes last will dish up more that sort of stuff, as we did in the first few weeks, and North and West Coast did on the weekend. No thanks.

But if it comes to round 23 and the season has been a complete disaster and we're talking percentage or one game to determine who finishes 18th or 17th, I wouldn't care at that stage. The ladder position itself doesn't mean much.

This scenario is highly unlikely given what we have shown so far

 

[Ned Ryerson]

This scenario is highly unlikely given what we have shown so far

This is my thing - our young blokes are showing such a bloody desire to improve and win. The youngest, most inexperienced list in the league who got flogged twice to start the season are responding with the desire to win that their coach had as a player. And there’s a minority of fans that see this and want to have a sook that our players being competitive means we mightn’t draft Harley Reid. It’s utterly pathetic.

 

[Braidz]

This is my thing - our young blokes are showing such a bloody desire to improve and win. The youngest, most inexperienced list in the league who got flogged twice to start the season are responding with the desire to win that their coach had as a player. And there’s a minority of fans that see this and want to have a sook that our players being competitive means we mightn’t draft Harley Reid. It’s utterly pathetic.

But you’ve missed one point. Harley Reid!

 

[Billyc]

This scenario is highly unlikely given what we have shown so far

In the last few weeks I agree, though form will probably fluctuate. We currently have a very healthy list. If that stays the case I don’t see us finishing last.

With the state of their injury list, hard to go past West Coast for 18th but if they get senior players back they might win a few home games late.

North are back looking pretty horrible after a quick dead cat bounce but again their form might fluctuate and they struggle a lot when LDU misses

 

[triple treat]

Have a look at the current footy served up by Fremantle, West Coast and Norf. If we finish below all 3 of them do you really think we will have been playing good, constructive and competitive footy. People who are so sad that we won’t finish below these teams this year must want us to play some absolutely miserable footy. I’m content with the rebuilding and that it comes with a lot of losing - but if you want to sit through the Swans game all year just to get Harley Reid then you’re a sick puppy.

I don’t care about other teams. Like I said as long as we have kids who are showing promise, improving, are competitive and the game plan is sound, then I’m fine with us finishing last.