1 Ruck or 2 ??? The Midfield Performance Misconception!

[doggies ftw]

Calm down champ. Don’t blow a fuse.

So these factors are no longer outside the stoppage? They’re at the stoppage?

So what are they?

There is outside factors that lead to an overall clearance differential, surely you can recognise this? The midfielders in the stoppage for one? You don’t think they are a factor?

A clearance against North Melbourne and a clearance against Melbourne are exactly equal so there for it we win the clearances against Norf but lose against Melbourne, our rucks performed better against Norf? The ruck is just one small factor.

We win the clearance 76% of the time with 2 rucks and 72% of the time with 1 ruck so therefor our midfield is better with 1 ruck. That’s your argument.

You literally think that makes you right, you do realise every single other person on this board recognises our midfield is better with 2 rucks obviously, but people are arguing whether Sweet offers enough to be included outside of the ruck. Which is a fair argument and the only argument. Obviously Sweet is better than Cordy in the ruck, that’s not being questioned.

But according to you because of your little clearance differential stat thate not the case man honestly

 

[Dog 36]

Around the ground English is massively better than Sweet basically giving us an extra midfielder.

Even in his early games English moved around the ground better than Sweet.

Sweet is not the worst backup ruck going around but if English is playing he has no role.

Our midfield is stronger whenever English is rucking as he becomes one.

We do not have a genuine 2nd ruck on our list so this whole debate is .......... well let's say going in with 1 ruck tonight will not influence the result 1 iota

Buku was pushed forward in the VFL and played ruck in the VFL to see how he would go.

He can easily ruck 20% be forward 40% including rucking stoppages there and will be of much more value than Sweet in the 2nd ruck role which covers his 60 to 65 percent on ground.

Some of us just do not like seeing Bont or Dunks in the ruck contest when there are better options already there.

On SM-G996B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Don't disagree with what you say.

IMO Sweet is a good 2nd ruck but has his limitations as a 2nd Ruck.

I just think Sweet can play instead of another player who is a HBF come midfielder come forward. Not saying he should play every game but I don't agree with if English plays Sweet does not.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

There is outside factors that lead to an overall clearance differential, surely you can recognise this? The midfielders in the stoppage for one? You don’t think they are a factor?

A clearance against North Melbourne and a clearance against Melbourne are exactly equal so there for it we win the clearances against Norf but lose against Melbourne, our rucks performed better against Norf? The ruck is just one small factor.

We win the clearance 76% of the time with 2 rucks and 72% of the time with 1 ruck so therefor our midfield is better with 1 ruck. That’s your argument.

You literally think that makes you right, you do realise every single other person on this board recognises our midfield is better with 2 rucks obviously, but people are arguing whether Sweet offers enough to be included outside of the ruck. Which is a fair argument and the only argument. Obviously Sweet is better than Cordy in the ruck, that’s not being questioned.

But according to you because of your little clearance differential stat thate not the case man honestly

More lies from you dftw. Not everyone believes our mids perform better with 2 rucks. I’m almost certain even less will now after finding out our mids win more clearances with only 1 ruck. I also think you’re a little confused, it’s 1 ruck and 1 fwd/ruck that most are after.

I don’t even really care too much about the clearance differential to be honest. The point of this thread was to show that our mids don’t perform poorly with just the 1 ruck as you’ve gone hard with for a while now. The stats more than back that up to the point it shows we perform better with 1.

You’re still not making any sense with the other stuff either. Who we have in the midfield doesn’t make the resulting clearance rate any better or worse.
What you’re suggesting is that a 75% clearance win rate in 2021 is better than the same rate in 2022 because 21 had Bont in the midfield and 22 didn’t.
It’s bizarre.

The stats don’t lie, our mids perform better at stoppages with 1 ruck as opposed to 2.

As I said, the 1/2 ruck debate doesn’t eat at me the way it does you, I just thought if it’s going to rage on at least everyone understood what they’re arguing over.

I’m still keen to hear what other performance indicators coaches and experts use outside of clearances and contested footy to determine a midfields performance at stoppages. You keep avoiding it.

 

[doggiesin08]

Oh how I wish we had a 2nd ruck with some forward craft on the list like Daniel Bandy

Daniel Bandy

Age

48

Ht

200cm

Wt

99kg

Pos.

DFR

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.7

4star

K

8.2

3star

HB

5.6

4star

M

5.6

5star

T

1.0

3star

No current season stats available

D

10.6

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

4.4

4star

M

4.6

5star

T

0.2

3star

or Wayde Skipper

Wayde Skipper

Age

41

Ht

194cm

Wt

95kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.9

2star

K

4.5

2star

HB

3.4

3star

CL

2.1

4star

HO

8.1

5star

No current season stats available

D

6.6

2star

K

2.8

1star

HB

3.8

3star

HO

0.4

4star

.

 

[Dog 36]

More lies from you dftw. Not everyone believes our mids perform better with 2 rucks. I’m almost certain even less will now after finding out our mids win more clearances with only 1 ruck. I also think you’re a little confused, it’s 1 ruck and 1 fwd/ruck that most are after.

I don’t even really care too much about the clearance differential to be honest. The point of this thread was to show that our mids don’t perform poorly with just the 1 ruck as you’ve gone hard with for a while now. The stats more than back that up to the point it shows we perform better with 1.

You’re still not making any sense with the other stuff either. Who we have in the midfield doesn’t make the resulting clearance rate any better or worse.
What you’re suggesting is that a 75% clearance win rate in 2021 is better than the same rate in 2022 because 21 had Bont in the midfield and 22 didn’t.
It’s bizarre.

The stats don’t lie, our mids perform better at stoppages with 1 ruck as opposed to 2.

As I said, the 1/2 ruck debate doesn’t eat at me the way it does you, I just thought if it’s going to rage on at least everyone understood what they’re arguing over.

I’m still keen to hear what other performance indicators coaches and experts use outside of clearances and contested footy to determine a midfields performance at stoppages. You keep avoiding it.

I know one club looks at the quality of the clearance and this carries a fair weight with them.

 

[ScragCity]

I know one club looks at the quality of the clearance and this carries a fair weight with them.

I imagine all clubs would. Clubs have access to a lot of data and full time analysts to work on these things. Plebs like us only have access to the tip of the iceberg and the few scraps that Oliver throws our way.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

I know one club looks at the quality of the clearance and this carries a fair weight with them.

Quality of clearance would be pretty important at all clubs D36.

A clean disposal from stoppages are like gold, unfortunately with how good all teams are at creating a contest at the drop of a hitout, most clearances are a 1st disposal/gaining metres type advantage.

 

[Dog 36]

I imagine all clubs would. Clubs have access to a lot of data and full time analysts to work on these things. Plebs like us only have access to the tip of the iceberg and the few scraps that Oliver throws our way.

It is mind blowing what information they have access to.

Oliver has to lift his game seriously! How can i argue my point if he cannot supply the data

 

[doggies ftw]

More lies from you dftw. Not everyone believes our mids perform better with 2 rucks. I’m almost certain even less will now after finding out our mids win more clearances with only 1 ruck. I also think you’re a little confused, it’s 1 ruck and 1 fwd/ruck that most are after.

I don’t even really care too much about the clearance differential to be honest. The point of this thread was to show that our mids don’t perform poorly with just the 1 ruck as you’ve gone hard with for a while now. The stats more than back that up to the point it shows we perform better with 1.

You’re still not making any sense with the other stuff either. Who we have in the midfield doesn’t make the resulting clearance rate any better or worse.
What you’re suggesting is that a 75% clearance win rate in 2021 is better than the same rate in 2022 because 21 had Bont in the midfield and 22 didn’t.
It’s bizarre.

The stats don’t lie, our mids perform better at stoppages with 1 ruck as opposed to 2.

As I said, the 1/2 ruck debate doesn’t eat at me the way it does you, I just thought if it’s going to rage on at least everyone understood what they’re arguing over.

I’m still keen to hear what other performance indicators coaches and experts use outside of clearances and contested footy to determine a midfields performance at stoppages. You keep avoiding it.

You cannot believe this genuine tripe can you?

I’d say if Bont plays or not yes it’s a factor on our clearance rate, so how can you say the differential is the only thing we need to look at for the RUCKS. If we had Bont, Libba, Dunks & Macrae miss for the games we had two rucks then obviously our clearance differential would take a hit, but you’d then use this to say our midfield performs better with 1 ruck than 2? Even you of all people cannot be this dumb right?

Who actually thinks our midfield would perform better with Cordy backing up the ruck over Sweet. You’re fighting the wrong fight my bro

 

[ScragCity]

It is mind blowing what information they have access to.

Oliver has to lift his game seriously! How can i argue my point if he cannot supply the data

The bigger point is this:

Bevo has access to a wealth of data and analysis that we, the supporters, do not. It is no surprise that many of us find some of the coaching decisions to be perplexing. The more naive among us assume that our coaching staff are all halfwits because they can't see what is so obvious to dftw and his colleagues - that we simply need to play more talls and disregard all other information.

 

[Dog 36]

The bigger point is this:

Bevo has access to a wealth of data and analysis that we, the supporters, do not. It is no surprise that many of us find some of the coaching decisions to be perplexing. The more naive among us assume that our coaching staff are all halfwits because they can't see what is so obvious to dftw and his colleagues - that we simply need to play more talls and disregard all other information.

Not sure if information and data available varies from club to club and then what emphasis each coaching panel put towards it in terms of decision making.

One team measures when an interchange happens during play how long it takes for the player coming on 1. to be used by his side 2. how long it takes him to find his opponent and 3. how long it takes him to get involved in play.

What they do with that I do not know.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

You cannot believe this genuine tripe can you?

I’d say if Bont plays or not yes it’s a factor on our clearance rate, so how can you say the differential is the only thing we need to look at for the RUCKS. If we had Bont, Libba, Dunks & Macrae miss for the games we had two rucks then obviously our clearance differential would take a hit, but you’d then use this to say our midfield performs better with 1 ruck than 2? Even you of all people cannot be this dumb right?

Who actually thinks our midfield would perform better with Cordy backing up the ruck over Sweet. You’re fighting the wrong fight my bro

Lol, You are so rattled that you haven’t even realised you’re proving my point for me.

Our performance at stoppages is down to who we have in there. Whether it’s mids or rucks, it doesn’t matter, we have a group within our team that performs better than others.

The best performing one has just 1 ruck involved. The stats tell us that.

Only took us all day dftw, but glad you now see it clearly.

Now, still waiting on those performance indicators... Let me know when you’ve found something champ.

 

[TiAn_]

We need to bed down this important idea of a “hybrid ruck”.

Is it a fantasy style half man, half deer hybrid or your more tech advanced half man, half machine? Or is it the ultimate killer of a half deer, half machine? I dare not even contemplate a three source hybrid, of man, deer and machine. I need to know to be able to interpret these valuable statistical observations.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

I’m actually super disappointed in myself, I can’t believe I’ve spent all day arguing with a genuine ret4rd, not cool

I’ve never met someone who behaves this way when proven wrong

You’re like a child lol

 

[doggies ftw]

I’ve never met someone who behaves this way when proven wrong

You’re like a child lol

You’re literally arguing with a 14 yo on the internet over Jordan Sweet

 

[ScragCity]

Alright, you two love birds need to give it a rest. If anyone wants to fight on this forum you have to fight me first.

 

[ScragCity]

We need to bed down this important idea of a “hybrid ruck”.

Is it a fantasy style half man, half deer hybrid or your more tech advanced half man, half machine? Or is it the ultimate killer of a half deer, half machine? I dare not even contemplate a three source hybrid, of man, deer and machine. I need to know to be able to interpret these valuable statistical observations.

Hybrid means 50% structure and 50% run

 

[Charlie Bucket]

You’re literally arguing with a 14 yo on the internet over Jordan Sweet

This makes sense considering you behave the way you do when proven to be horrendously wrong.

 

[TiAn_]

Hybrid means 50% structure and 50% run

So half machine half deer.

 

[Dog 36]

Meanwhile Cats have brought in a 205 cm ruck in Conway for Kolodjashnij

So seems Blicavs may not ruck at all

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Alright, you two love birds need to give it a rest. If anyone wants to fight on this forum you have to fight me first.

A word of warning, my fighting win rate’s 76%.

That’s with 1 hand tied behind my back. It’s 72% using both hands.

 

[doggies ftw]

Tune in next week for Buckets next thread “Kicking goals helps you win games”

Where he goes into a deep dive into the statistical benefits of kicking goals over points.

Absolute stats guru this bloke

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Tune in next week for Buckets next thread “Kicking goals helps you win games”

Where he goes into a deep dive into the statistical benefits of kicking goals over points.

Absolute stats guru this bloke

You still going?

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Tune in next week for Buckets next thread “Kicking goals helps you win games”

Where he goes into a deep dive into the statistical benefits of kicking goals over points.

Absolute stats guru this bloke

What is it about being proven wrong that triggers you so badly?

 

[LittleG]

Alright, you two love birds need to give it a rest. If anyone wants to fight on this forum you have to fight me first.

Your too warm and soft to offer much resistance, I should call you ScarfCity.