Retired # 2: Tom Bellchambers - Knocks Cam Mooney the **** out - 24/5

[eth-dog]

Nice try but, fail.

Nope. Ruckmen are incapable of playing well as sub.

 

[hurlygurdy]

It might surprise you to hear it, but that is actually not an argument. I daresay you aren't giving me an argument because you don't actually have one. Just because no one wants Mckernan to be sub doesn't mean it isn't the best option we have. It's certainly better than starting him on the field.

 

[BrunoV]

Crap Bruno, he was excellent in 2013. He was more than matching Ryder and Ryder did not come straight back into the side after his suspension as T-Bell
was getting the job done.The stats or form and facts do not lie. They where rucking equal time and they where both kicking goals.

It has everything to do with the injury. The fact is he has had 4 operations in two season on the same ankle, was played last year when he should not have been and now he is paying the price.
It is the same thing that killed off Brett Lee as a test bowler, pushed too hard on a suspect ankle and was never the same again.
If you think that it is something different then you are totally wrong and one thing you do do is once you make an early call on someone you put the blinkers on big time.

No he is not playing well. Yes we bloody miss Ryder and i am not sure he will ever be as good as he was now which is a real problem.

He's always been insipid at ground level.

 

[Fear Boner]

Yeah i feel your pain, i'm sick of explaining this to people as well...
The logic that is assumed is that you play an impact player as a sub (lets assume that Mckernan isn't such a player, or at least isn't fast enough regardless). But if you are committed to playing an extra tall that upsets the balance in your side to some degree, then one way of mitigating that concern is to play them as sub. If you get an early injury then you are back to square one where you had committed them to the team regardless. If you don't get an early injury then you get the benefit of having a more mobile team for half the game or more. Then you might even get the option late in the game to do a ruck replacement.
Or conversely, you can play the faster player as sub and have them sit there for 3 quarters of the game before it is safe to role the dice that an injury is not coming. Meanwhile you have two lumbering ruckmen taking up space when you won't even need one of them until late in the third quarter when the NO.1 has run out of puff.
Feel free to punch holes in that logic if you can. I seriously doubt that you can BTW

If your logic made so much sense all afl teams would do it .... Fact of the matter is , they don't because it's a s**t truck idea .

 

[Kakkle]

How about that big kick i50 that results in St Kilda swiftly moving the ball out while he just stood there cursing himself? 600K at 7 years. Now.

 

[hurlygurdy]

If your logic made so much sense all afl teams would do it .... Fact of the matter is , they don't because it's a s**t truck idea .

And another punter with an opinion but no argument.

 

[Fear Boner]

And another punter with an opinion but no argument.

I don't need to write a novel to explain that we are a slow side with structural issues putting another tall into the mix won't help ...

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Needs help really labouring.

 

[efcboy]

Yeah i feel your pain, i'm sick of explaining this to people as well...
The logic that is assumed is that you play an impact player as a sub (lets assume that Mckernan isn't such a player, or at least isn't fast enough regardless). But if you are committed to playing an extra tall that upsets the balance in your side to some degree, then one way of mitigating that concern is to play them as sub. If you get an early injury then you are back to square one where you had committed them to the team regardless. If you don't get an early injury then you get the benefit of having a more mobile team for half the game or more. Then you might even get the option late in the game to do a ruck replacement.
Or conversely, you can play the faster player as sub and have them sit there for 3 quarters of the game before it is safe to role the dice that an injury is not coming. Meanwhile you have two lumbering ruckmen taking up space when you won't even need one of them until late in the third quarter when the NO.1 has run out of puff.
Feel free to punch holes in that logic if you can. I seriously doubt that you can BTW

At present all EFC matches regardless of whether its vs top or bottom are close. We need a sub who can get us over the line in the last 40 minutes. A runner who takes the game on makes sense.

 

[yaco55]

T-Bell has improved the last two weeks. He needs to continually, so that we can put to the bed the hare-brained ideas to include a second ruck as support - We are already too cumbersome with JD and carlisle in the forward line.

 

[JDavey]

T-Bell has improved the last weeks. He needs to continually, so that we can put to the bed the hare-brained ideas to include a second ruck as support - We are already too cumbersome with JD and carlisle in the forward line.

For structural reasons we shouldn't have another tall. I actually think TBCs last two weeks have been his best two for the year. Clear that the amount of footy he missed last year combined with overall fitness has led to a poor start

 

[hurlygurdy]

For structural reasons we shouldn't have another tall. I actually think TBCs last two weeks have been his best two for the year. Clear that the amount of footy he missed last year combined with overall fitness has led to a poor start

Really? I didn't see the game and only heard snatches of it, but from all the talk here you would think he had a shocker... If he is improving i would far rather we stick with him as a sole ruck. The Mckernan option is only of any use if tbc is a significant factor in dragging us down.

At present all EFC matches regardless of whether its vs top or bottom are close. We need a sub who can get us over the line in the last 40 minutes. A runner who takes the game on makes sense.

What is happening every week atm, is that all our inside grunt is failing as the match wears on. Without hocking and Myers we are finding Watson and heppell understandably can't hold down the fort. A massive contributing factor to that is tbc running out of steam and getting softer and softer in the contest. The result of the current ruck equation is that we are another inside player down by the start of the 4th. Our lack of outside run pales in comparison as a 4th quarter weakness.
It sounds like hams gave us that grunt this week, but its not like mckernan wouldn't have made a similar impact I expect. Unless someone can reassure me that tbc was solid in the 4th?

 

[Howard Moon]

Hes actually a beautiful kick, field kick. Has an action like a small. Could be a perfect link type man (hate to always use the cox likeness) if he worked hard enough into space.

 

[daffo]

I still miss Ryder.

 

[keepzitreal]

don't like Belly. Get Giles in there.

 

[eth-dog]

don't like Belly. Get Giles in there.

Yep, replace a bloke who's performing mediocre at AFL level with one that's performing worse at VFL level.

 

[keepzitreal]

Yep, replace a bloke who's performing mediocre at AFL level with one that's performing worse at VFL level.

As much as we'd like to pretend this matters, how many times have players come in off poor VFL form and played well in the Seniors.

Giles better in the ruck, around stoppages, defensively and more agile.

All Belly wants to do is wrestle and in the even he takes a mark, he botches his disposal.

We aren't going to go anywhere with Belly as our lone ruck. He needs to lift his game.

 

[eth-dog]

As much as we'd like to pretend this matters, how many times have players come in off poor VFL form and played well in the Seniors.

Giles better in the ruck, around stoppages, defensively and more agile.

All Belly wants to do is wrestle and in the even he takes a mark, he botches his disposal.

We aren't going to go anywhere with Belly as our lone ruck. He needs to lift his game.

Giles just got his pants pulled down by Jake Spencer. Giles is none of those thing you mentioned.

 

[JDavey]

Really? I didn't see the game and only heard snatches of it, but from all the talk here you would think he had a shocker... If he is improving i would far rather we stick with him as a sole ruck. The Mckernan option is only of any use if tbc is a significant factor in dragging us down.

There is some board urge to get McKernan in over TBC which is why there is constant bashing, our rucks aren't a strength anymore but is definitely the least of our problems. TBC has been playing below his average but improving each week (in my opinion)... thought in the last few minutes of the game vs saints he won a large amount of hit outs to advantage (and was putting them over the back of the pack to our advantage, rather then putting it in a crumbing position for saints).

From what I've seen each week his disposal/work around ground has slightly, still underperforming in general hit outs and has given away too many frees as a result.

 

[keepzitreal]

There is some board urge to get McKernan in over TBC which is why there is constant bashing, our rucks aren't a strength anymore but is definitely the least of our problems. TBC has been playing below his average but improving each week (in my opinion)... thought in the last few minutes of the game vs saints he won a large amount of hit outs to advantage (and was putting them over the back of the pack to our advantage, rather then putting it in a crumbing position for saints).

From what I've seen each week his disposal/work around ground has slightly, still underperforming in general hit outs and has given away too many frees as a result.

it would be nice if he focuses on winning the ruck rather than wrestling all the time. Gets away with a lot I reckon.

 

[Ashton Agar]

As much as we'd like to pretend this matters, how many times have players come in off poor VFL form and played well in the Seniors.

Giles better in the ruck, around stoppages, defensively and more agile.

All Belly wants to do is wrestle and in the even he takes a mark, he botches his disposal.

We aren't going to go anywhere with Belly as our lone ruck. He needs to lift his game.

McKernan needs to play to help out Bellchambers. Giles is just a downgrade on Bellchambers.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

So was a mistake in getting Giles then?

 

[Andronicus]

So was a mistake in getting Giles then?

If things go pear shaped, or he has a form shift that has him live up to what he should be capable of, it will still be looked as a wise move for insurance purposes.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

If things go pear shaped, or he has a form shift that has him live up to what he should be capable of, it will still be looked as a wise move for insurance purposes.

Reckon he doesn't like playing in the VFL.

 

[Ashton Agar]

So was a mistake in getting Giles then?

Not a mistake, we need depth. We can't have just had Bellchambers and McKernan on the list! Giles is a solid 3rd ruckman.