2008 Wrestling Observer Newsletter Awards

Discussion in 'Entertainment Wrestling' started by Jabso, Feb 8, 2009.

Put it out there
  1. Jabso

    Jabso Moderator

    Collingwood
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    Always look out for these each year. For previous winners go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrestling_Observer_Newsletter_awards

    *Note: I've left out the MMA awards but for a lot of awards, MMA shows/fighters are eligible. For those interested Brock Lesnar won MMA most valuable.

    LOU THESZ/RIC FLAIR AWARD
    (WRESTLER OF THE YEAR)

    1. CHRIS JERICHO (139)1,198
    2. Edge (116)1,168
    3. Shawn Michaels (157)1,111
    4. Keiji Muto (97)976
    5. Nigel McGuinness (45)658
    6. John Cena (73)595
    7. Shingo Takagi (57)449
    8. Cibernetico (53)377
    9. Kurt Angle (32)275
    10. Bryan Danielson (12)215


    MOST OUTSTANDING WRESTLER
    1. BRYAN DANIELSON (325)2,042
    2. Shawn Michaels (173)1,406
    3. Nigel McGuinness (32)753
    4. Naomichi Marufuji (46)718
    5. Chris Jericho (36)578
    6. Kurt Angle (47)426
    7. KENTA (19)315
    8. Hiroshi Tanahashi (16)277
    9. Edge (17)251
    10. Masato Tanaka (29)185
    HONORABLE MENTION: Jeff Hardy 164, El Generico 155, Samoa Joe 127, Cima 122, Shingo Takagi 115, Blue Panther 107, Austin Aries 94

    BEST BOX OFFICE DRAW
    1. BROCK LESNAR (605)3,532
    2. Mistico (118)1,525
    3. John Cena (107)1,207
    4. Georges St. Pierre (3)1,064
    5. Cibernetico (19)511
    6. Randy Couture (7)394
    7. Chuck Liddell (13)305
    8, Kimbo Slice (4)264
    9. Keiji Muto197
    10. Kenta Kobashi 173
    HONORABLE MENTION: Edge 84, HHH 61

    FEUD OF THE YEAR
    1. CHRIS JERICHO VS. SHAWN MICHAELS (443)2,647
    2. Undertaker vs. Edge (56)1,195
    3. New Japan vs. Zero-One Max (71)595
    4. Austin Aries vs. Jimmy Jacobs (19)416
    5. Konnan vs. Joachim Roldan (37)362
    6. Georges St. Pierre vs. Matt Serra (2)321
    7. Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens (15)289
    8. Ric Flair vs. Shawn Michaels (19)232
    9. HHH vs. Jeff Hardy (6)160
    10. Kurt Angle vs. Samoa Joe (2) 138
    HONORABLE MENTION: Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness 128, Awesome Kong vs. Gail Kim 110, Brock Lesnar vs. Randy Couture 84, Junie Browning vs. Efraim Escudero 72, Shawn Michaels vs. Batista 70

    TAG TEAM OF THE YEAR
    1. JOHN MORRISON & THE MIZ (294)2,130
    2. Kevin Steen & El Generico (137)1,099
    3. Robert Roode & James Storm (30)1,077
    4. Masato Yoshino & Naruki Doi (120)1,035
    5. KENTA & Taiji Ishimori (83)804
    6. Mark & Jay Briscoe (30)708
    7. Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black (38)469
    8. Chris Sabin & Alex Shelley (15)460
    9. Shingo Takagi & BxB Hulk (16)252
    10. Hiroyoshi Tenzan & Satoshi Kojima (22)251
    HONORABLE MENTION: Homicide & Hernandez 205, Kensuke Sasaki& Katsuhiko Nakajima 144, Togi Makabe & Toru Yano 142, Cody Rhodes & Ted DiBiase 122., Teddy Hart & Jack Evans 70, Team 3-D 66

    MOST IMPROVED
    1. THE MIZ (203)1,578
    2. Tyler Black (194)1,244
    3. John Morrison (15)237
    4. Cody Rhodes (22)235
    5. Suwama (16)234
    6. Yamato (33)216
    7. Kofi Kingston (9)184
    8. Shingo Takagi (14)182
    9. Ted DiBiase (8)116
    10. Rhett Titus (13)96
    HONORABLE MENTION: Nigel McGuinness 92, Atsushi Aoki 90, Kevin Steen 85, Chris Jericho 84, Robert Roode 84, Davey Richards 68, The Brian Kendrick 62, Mike Knox 60

    BEST ON INTERVIEWS
    1. CHRIS JERICHO (272)1,979
    2. Santino Marella (137)1,309
    3. Edge (43)654
    4. Dana White (42)594
    5. Shawn Michaels (18)405
    6. Ric Flair (37)344
    7. Larry Sweeney (17)298
    8. Cibernetico 215
    9. Jimmy Jacobs (5)166
    10. John Cena (4)135
    HONORABLE MENTION: Vickie Guerrero 129, Kurt Angle 115, Frank Shamrock 107, Mick Foley 89, JBL 80, Konnan 74, Randy Orton 73, Kenny Florian 72

    MOST CHARISMATIC
    1. JOHN CENA (245)1,586
    2. Brock Lesnar (86)856
    3. Edge (43)617
    4. Santino Marella (77)579
    5. Kenta Kobashi (35)522
    6. Shawn Michaels (37)452
    7. Chris Jericho (26)442
    8. Cibernetico (26)434
    9. Quinton Jackson (2)318
    10. Hiroshi Tanahashi (20)299
    HONORABLE MENTION: Jeff Hardy 295, Randy Couture 239, Gina Carano 238, Perro Aguayo Jr. 235, Georges St. Pierre 198, Randy Orton 162, Yoshihiro Akiyama 117, Ric Flair 111

    BEST TECHNICAL WRESTLER
    1. BRYAN DANIELSON (582)3,231
    2. Nigel McGuinness (45)1,192
    3. Kurt Angle (68)748
    4. Naomichi Marufuji (32)694
    5. Atsushi Aoki364
    6. William Regal (6)260
    7. Yuji Nagata236
    8. Chris Jericho (24)222
    9. Shawn Michaels (10)208
    10. Mike Quackenbush (9)179

    HONORABLE MENTION: Blue Panther 162, Roderick Strong 119, Josh Barnett 90, Fit Finlay 82, Matt Hardy 63

    BRUISER BRODY MEMORIAL AWARD (BEST BRAWLER)
    1. NECRO BUTCHER (193)1,386
    2. Samoa Joe (127)1,133
    3. Takeshi Morishima (125)1,044
    4. Undertaker (76)831
    5. Masato Tanaka (40)576
    6. Togi Makabe (28)534
    7. Fit Finlay (48)358
    8. Awesome Kong (21)343
    9. Jimmy Jacobs (17)268
    10. Kevin Steen (8)172
    HONORABLE MENTION: Abyss 162, Kurt Angle 141, Edge 119, Umaga 78, Nigel McGuiness 70

    BEST FLYING WRESTLER
    1. EVAN BOURNE (323)2,188
    2. Kota Ibushi (108)1,746
    3. Mistico (115)1,510
    4. Jack Evans (59)1,217
    5. Dragon Kid (67)604
    6. Masato Yoshino (49)424
    7. A.J. Styles (24)399
    8. Jeff Hardy (22)351
    8. Rey Mysterio (2)332
    10. Pac (15)277
    HONORABLE MENTION: Teddy Hart 251, Valiente 246, Taiji Ishimori 242, El Blazer 192, Naomichi Marufuji 174, BxB Hulk 161, Ricky Marvin 160, El Generico 157, Prince Devitt 126, KENTA 116

    MOST OVERRATED
    1. VLADIMIR KOZLOV (143)1,022
    2. HHH (139)953
    3. Great Khali (64)583
    4. Sting (38)377
    5. Kevin Nash (37)374
    6. Batista (32)372
    7. Kane (38)332
    8. C.M. Punk (34)305
    9. Mr. Kennedy (29)299
    10. JBL (18)197
    HONORABLE MENTION: Mark Henry 196, Team 3-D 170, Mitsuharu Misawa 119, John Cena 117, Booker T 88, Scott Steiner 82, Randy Orton 77, Samoa Joe 72

    MOST UNDERRATED

    1. MVP (91)840
    2. Scotty Goldman (87)567
    3. Jamie Noble (50)484
    4. Alex Shelley (53)464
    5. Elijah Burke (39)419
    6. Paul London (57)358
    7. C.M. Punk (22)287
    8. John Morrison (31)277
    9. Shuji Kondo (10)189
    10. Chris Sabin (5)182
    HONORABLE MENTION: Brian Kendrick 176, Matt Hardy 164, Jimmy Wang Yang 99, Davey Richards 85, Roderick Strong 81

    PROMOTION OF THE YEAR
    1. ULTIMATE FIGHTING CHAMPIONSHIPS (533)3,340
    2. World Wrestling Entertainment (52)1,329
    3. Ring of Honor (58)1,188
    4. Dragon Gate (26)591
    5. New Japan Pro Wrestling (33)575
    6. World Extreme Cagefighting (7)406
    7. Pro Wrestling NOAH (15)312
    8. Total Nonstop Action (32)276
    9. AAA (12)227
    10. CHIKARA (21)209
    HONORABLE MENTION: CMLL 183, IWRG 131, Dream 86

    BEST WEEKLY TV SHOW

    1. THE ULTIMATE FIGHTER (196)1,616
    2. WWE Raw (128)1,467
    3. WWE ECW (92)1,165
    4. WWE Smackdown (70)887
    5. Dragon Gate Infinity (89)682
    6. Inside MMA (61)407
    7. AAA (14)329
    8. Pro Wrestling NOAH (19)306
    9. New Japan World Pro Wrestling (9)282
    10. CMLL (1)228
    HONORABLE MENTION: TNA Impact 196, Hulk Hogan’s Celebrity Championship Wrestling 166, IWRG 157

    WORKED MATCH OF THE YEAR
    1. SHAWN MICHAELS VS. CHRIS JERICHO 10/5 PORTLAND (179)1,146
    2. Ric Flair vs. Shawn Michaels 3/30 Orlando (140)933
    3. Kurt Angle vs. Samoa Joe 4/13 Lowell (33)622
    4. Blue Panther vs. Villano V 9/19 Mexico City (30)594
    5. Kenta Kobashi & Yoshihiro Takayama vs. Mitsuharu Misawa & Jun Akiyama 12/2/07 Tokyo (36)539
    6. Nigel McGuinness vs. Austin Aries 12/29/07 New York (37)475
    7. Nigel McGuinness vs. Bryan Danielson 2/23 New York (49)405
    8. Undertaker vs. Edge 3/30 Orlando (22)386
    9. Naomichi Marufuji & Katsuhiko Nakajima vs. KENTA & Kota Ibushi 9/14 Tokyo (39)360
    10. Naruki Doi & Masato Yoshino & Genki Horiguchi vs. Cima & Ryo Saito & Dragon Kid 3/29 Orlando (12)348

    HONORABLE MENTION: KENTA vs. Naomichi Marufuji 10/25 Tokyo 313, Undertaker vs Edge 8/17 Indianapolis 301, Nigel McGuinness vs. Tyler Black 3/16 Philadelphia 280, Bryan Danielson vs. Tyler Black 7/26 Detroit 251, Naomichi Marufuji vs. Shuji Kondo 11/3 Tokyo 217, Kenta Kobashi & KENTA vs. Kensuke Sasaki & Katsuhiko Nakajima 6/14 Tokyo 198, Volador Jr. & Sagrado & La Sombra vs. El Hijo del Fantasma & La Mascara & Valiente 4/30 Mexico City 192, KENTA & Taiji Ishimori vs. Yoshinobu Kanemaru & Kotaro Suzuki 9/6 Tokyo 114, Kurt Angle vs. A.J. Styles 8/10 Trenton 113, HHH vs. Jeff Hardy 10/5 Portland 113, Kevin Steen & El Generico vs. Masato Yoshino & Naruki Doi 3/28 Orlando 109, Kurt Angle vs. Yuji Nagata 1/4 Tokyo 78, Kevin Steen & El Generico vs. Tyler Black & Jimmy Jacobs 9/19 Boston 76, Takeshi Morishima vs. Naomichi Marufuji 12/2/07 Tokyo 72



    ROOKIE OF THE YEAR
    1. KAI (84)966
    2. Amasis (81)925
    3. Ryota Hama (88) 462
    4. Kento Miyahara (35)454
    5. Joe Hennig (41)378
    6. Nick Jackson (15)324
    7. Consequences Creed (47)295
    8. Atsushi Sawada (13)292
    9. Ophidian (1)275
    10. King Mo (35)175
    HONORABLE MENTION: Takashi Okita 72

    BEST NON-WRESTLER
    1. LARRY SWEENEY (260)2,208
    2. Vickie Guerrero (327)2,039
    3. Jim Cornette (22)548
    4. Mick Foley (15)474
    5. Nobuhiko Takada (45)323
    6. Vince McMahon (2)294
    7. Dana White (3)225
    8. Konnan (35)211
    9. Teddy Long (11)139
    10. Karen Angle 67
    PREVIOUS WINNERS: 1999 - Vince McMahon; 2000 - Vince McMahon; 2001 - Paul Heyman; 2002 - Paul Heyman; 2003 - Steve Austin; 2004 - Paul Heyman; 2005 - Eric Bischoff; 2006 - Jim Cornette; 2007 - Larry Sweeney

    BEST TELEVISION ANNOUNCER
    1. MATT STRIKER (264)1,950
    2. Jim Ross (232)1,906
    3. Joe Rogan (99)1,110
    4. Mike Goldberg (49)698
    5. Frank Mir (2)296
    6. Mike Tenay (9)285
    7. Tazz (3)249
    8. Dave Prazak (31)239
    9. Gus Johnson (30)238
    10. Mauro Ranallo(16)196
    HONORABLE MENTION: Mick Foley 129, Bas Rutten 127, Frank Shamrock 122, Lenny Leonard 105

    WORST TELEVISION ANNOUNCER
    1. MIKE ADAMLE (289)1,623
    2. Don West (93)1,364
    3. Michael Cole (107)1,310
    4. Todd Grisham (70)806
    5. Mike Tenay (12)274
    6. Jerry Lawler (4)172
    7. Mauro Ranallo (14)141
    8. Tazz (13)107
    9. Bubba the Love Sponge (12)90
    10. Jay Glazer67

    BEST MAJOR WRESTLING SHOW
    1. WWE WRESTLEMANIA 3/30 ORLANDO (158)1,683
    2. UFC 91 11/15 Las Vegas (199)1,677
    3. WEC 6/1 Sacramento (43)682
    4. ROH Supercard of Honor 3/29 Orlando (112)673
    5. WWE No Mercy 10/5 Portland (52)635
    6. ROH Death Before Dishonor 8/2 New York (2)249
    7. Pro Wrestling NOAH 3/2 Tokyo (16)234
    8. ROH Take No Prisoners 3/16 Philadelphia (29)212
    9. WWE Royal Rumble 1/27 New York (2)194
    10. Dragon Gate 9/5 Los Angeles (18)179
    HONORABLE MENTION: UFC Ultimate Fighter finals 12/8/07 Las Vegas 169, ROH Rising Above 12/29/07 New York 151, UFC 79 12/29/07 Las Vegas 134, TNA Lockdown 4/13 Lowell 122, ROH 3/28 Orlando 115, ROH Driven 9/19 Boston 114, ROH 9/14 Tokyo 112, UFC 81 2/2 Las Vegas 85, TNA Bound for Glory 10/12 Chicago 74, UFC 87 8/9 Minneapolis 60, ROH 7/26 Detroit 60

    "CATEGORY B" AWARDS - WINNER
    DETERMINED BY FIRST PLACE VOTES


    WORST MAJOR WRESTLING SHOW

    1. WWE SURVIVOR SERIES 11/23 BOSTON 116
    2. TNA Sacrifice 5/11 Orlando 95
    3. YAMMA Pitfighting 4/11 Atlantic City 90
    4. TNA No Surrender 9/14 Oshawa 52
    5. Elite XC on CBS 10/1 Fort Lauderdale 41
    6. Strikeforce at the Dome 2/23 Tacoma 31
    7. TNA Destination X 3/9 Norfolk 27
    8. UFC 90 10/25 Chicago 26
    9. WWE Cyber Sunday 10/26 Phoenix 25
    10. WWE Unforgiven 9/7 Cleveland 18
    HONORABLE MENTION: TNA Final Resolution 1/6 Orlando 14


    BEST WRESTLING MANEUVER


    1. EVAN BOURNE SHOOTING STAR PRESS 259
    2. Tyler Black God’s Last Gift 46
    3. Undertaker gogoplata 34
    4. Mistico La Mistica 30
    5. Chris Jericho codebreaker 26
    6. KENTA Go 2 sleep 24
    7. Randy Orton RKO 22
    8. Dragon Kid dragonrana 20
    9. Kota Ibushi double moonsault 19
    10. Taiji Ishimori superstar elbow 18
    HONORABLE MENTION: Tyler Black Phoenix splash, Masato Tanaka sliding D 16

    MOST DISGUSTING PROMOTIONAL TACTIC

    1. WWE JEFF HARDY TEASED OVERDOSE TO GET HITS 241
    2. TNA Using Jill Jarrett’s death in Angle vs. Jeff storyline 165
    3. WWE having the set collapse on Vince McMahon just days after a TNA crew member was killed in similar fashion 49
    4. ROH Larry Sweeney rape tease on Allison Danger 46
    5. IWA Mid South Mike Levy incident 41
    6. Elite XC pushing Kimbo Slice as a main eventer 29
    7. AAA using Antonio Pena’s ashes in an angle 25
    8. WWE McMahon’s Millions 23

    WORST TELEVISION SHOW
    1. TNA IMPACT520
    2. Hulk Hogan’s Celebrity Championship Wrestling43
    3. WWE ECW41
    4. WWE Raw34
    5. AAA11
    6. WWE Smackdown 10


    WORST MATCH OF THE YEAR
    1. HHH VS. KOZLOV VS. EDGE 11/23 BOSTON118
    2. Paulo Filho vs. Chael Sonnen 11/5 Hollywood, FL34
    3. Santino Marella vs. Honky Tonk Man 10/26 Phoenix22
    5. Warrior vs. Orlando Jordan 6/25 Madrid, Spain19
    6. Kane vs. Mark Henry vs. Big Show 6/29 Dallas16
    7. Mark Henry vs. Matt Hardy 8/17 Indianapolis15
    8. Rhodes & DiBiase vs. Lawler & Cole 7/28 Washington14
    9. A.J. Styles vs. Frank Trigg 9/14 Oshawa13

    WORST FEUD OF THE YEAR
    1. REY MYSTERIO VS. KANE 215
    2. Sonjay Dutt vs. Jay Lethal 101
    3. Main Event Mafia vs. Front Line 52
    4. HHH vs. Vladimir Kozlov 35
    5. B.G. James vs. Kip James 19
    6. Mark Henry vs. Matt Hardy 16
    7. Samoa Joe vs. Kevin Nash 15
    8. Tommy Dreamer vs. Colin Delaney 14
    9. Jamie Noble vs. Chuck Palumbo 12
    Armando Estrada vs. Colin Delaney 12
    Team 3-D vs. X Division 12

    WORST PROMOTION OF THE YEAR
    1. TOTAL NONSTOP ACTION 404
    2. Elite XC 232
    3. All Japan Pro Wrestling 36
    4. World Wrestling Entertainment 34
    5. Inoki Genome Federation 19
    IWA Mid South 19
    7. Hustle Fighting Opera 18
    8. AAA 16

    BEST BOOKER
    1. JOE SILVA 383
    2. Gabe Sapolsky 229
    3. Gedo & Jado 86
    4. Mike Quackenbush 55
    5. Vince McMahon 29
    6. Michael Hayes 28
    7. Genki Horiguchi 26
    8. Russo/Mantel/Jarrett 12

    PROMOTER OF THE YEAR
    1. DANA WHITE 699
    2. Vince McMahon 60
    3. Cary Silkin 46
    4. Naoki Sugabayashi 10
    5. Dixie Carter 9

    BEST GIMMICK

    1. SANTINO MARELLA 338
    2. Beautiful People 62
    3. Rhett Titus 36
    4. Charlie Haas 21
    5. John Morrison 14
    6. Junie Browning 12
    7. Festus 9

    WORST GIMMICK
    1. KHALI KISS CAM 62
    2. Whiny world champion Samoa Joe 59
    3. Super Eric 52
    4. G.M. Mike Adamle 25
    5. Stone Cold Shark Boy 21
    6. Cute Kip 19
    7. Kung Fu Naki 15
    8. Sheik Abdul Bashir 14
    9. Charlie Haas 12
    Bella Twins 11

    BEST PRO WRESTLING BOOK
    1. GORGEOUS GEORGE/JOHN CAPOUYA 192
    2. Ring of Hell/Matt Randazzo 75
    3. Wrestlecrap Book of Lists/Randy Baer 54
    4. Tales from the Mat/Tito Santana 37
    5. Becoming the Natural/Randy Couture & Loretta Hunt 35
    6. Benoit/Oliver & Johnson & Muchnick & McCoy 33
    7. Made in America/Matt Hughes 15
    8. Jim Londos Record Book/Steve Yohe 9
    Adventures in Larryland/Larry Zbyszko 9
    PREVIOUS WINNERS: 2005 - Death of WCW by Bryan Alvarez and R.D. Reynolds; 2006 - Tangled Ropes by Superstar Billy Graham and Keith Greenberg; 2007 - Hitman by Bret Hart and Marcy Engelstein

    BEST PRO WRESTLING DVD
    1. RIC FLAIR DEFINITIVE COLLECTION 216
    2. Ric Flair High Spots Shoot 83
    3. Mr. Perfect 49
    4. The Rock: Most Electrifying Man in Sports Entertainment 46
    5. PWG Sells Out 37
    6. Wrestlemania 24 33
    7. Hell in a Cell 19
    8. Viva La Raza/Eddie Guerrero Story 11
    9. TNA Global Impact Tokyo Dome 10
    PREVIOUS WINNERS: 2005 - Rise and Fall of ECW; 2006 - The Bret Hart Story; 2007 - Ric Flair and the Four Horsemen

    Thoughts?

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  2. Cleavy

    Cleavy Club Legend

    Hawthorn Hawthorn - 2013 Premiers
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    Pretty fair for the most part. Main ones I would slightly disagree with as Miz-Morrison as Tag Team of the Year and Survivor Series as Worst Major Wrestling Show.
  3. Jabso

    Jabso Moderator

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    What would your pick be for both of those (especially tag team). I haven't seen anything beyond WWE and TNA this year. The TNA tag division has been dialled down a little bit, and maybe Motor City could have won I suppose.

    This is still a fan voted award, so there are going to be WWE and TNA fan boys battling it out via votes. Although I had to laugh at the 2nd worst gimmick being Joe as a whiny champion. Have to agree with that. HHH as 2nd most overrated wrestler is a bit much. He has been used horribly this year, put him in a proper feud and a proper one on one match and he'll still bring you results.

    The Miz is very much improved, went from a very raw wrestler to a great worker who can hang with Morrison (who I rate very highly) but I think Jeff Hardy's improvement has been vastly underrated. I guess it's because I didn't rate him before his main event run, I though he was always highly overrated until now.
  4. Ryz

    Ryz Moderator

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    50% on the ball, 50% bullshit.

    Todd Grisham is good announcer IMO and Vickie up there with best non-wrestling talent, WTF? She gets cheap heat for being shit on the mic.

    Bit harsh on a few of the light-hearted gimmicks in TNA as well.

    However considering where the votes are drawn from it is to be expected.
  5. Cleavy

    Cleavy Club Legend

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    Steenerico for Tag Team.
    I don't really have a contender for Worst Major Wrestling Show, just questioning whether Survivor Series was THE worst of the year.

    Considering the votes aren't just from Observer subscribers as previous too.
  6. Jabso

    Jabso Moderator

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    Yeah Todd Grisham is a great announcer. He's really surprised me. It's just a thing with the internet wrestling community, once you are hated, you can never really redeem yourself.

    I think Vickie is good, she brings some passion to it which continues to give her massive heat despite her shortcomings. Not sure she should be ahead of Mick Foley, et al.

    I also don't know why Morrison is up with most improved, he hasn't really done anything that special this year compared to last. Sure him and Morrison were a better tag team, but John didn't really break out as a star or anything. I'd love to see him given a singles push, but then it really stuffs up the tag division.

    Also I don't see how Rhodes and DiBiase have improved that much. They've just been involved in bigger and better storylines. They still haven't been really tested.

    How has the voting changed?
  7. Cleavy

    Cleavy Club Legend

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    F4W merged with Wrestling Observer, so all F4W subscribers get access to the Observer and can vote on the awards, if they choose to.
  8. Jabso

    Jabso Moderator

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    So what's wrong with figure four subscribers? :p
  9. Cleavy

    Cleavy Club Legend

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    nothing. might be some different tastes from the norm though.