Trade the lexus center
2009 Draft what would we give away
- Thread starter BEEG
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- Nov 2, 2007
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Thought I would stir things up by suggesting Daisy for Foley but the original question was who would we trade to strengthen our weakness which is midfield? Rather than another band-aid solution or another young kid with potential Foley is a genuine 10 year midfielder who would give the delivery our gun forwards need and just might be the difference. If you are buying the best you need to pay a premium. I love watching Thomas and all the youngsters and would hate to see any of them leave the club but to suggest anyone is untouchable is negligent. I also reckon if you suggested the trade on the Richmond board they would say get ******
Kirby
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Idiot.
Foley's disposal by foot doesn't impress me much. His strengths are his handballing, and his amazing work he does inside to clear the ball, and obviously explosive pace. I've said it before, Foley would be one of the first players I'd jump at to come to Collingwood, but I would NOT trade Thomas for him. I'd be willing to trade our first pick and a good player, but not a foundation player (i.e. a player to build a premiership side around).
- Banned
- #81
It's flawed reasoning though since Foley is also what you'd call a foundation player. He's just as young, and he plays a more important position.
Time will tell won't it? I'd laugh if we traded Thomas away and he went on to win a brownlow or something, because he has the potential to do so. Note: The laughing would be at people like you, the anger would be at the club.
But hey, let's trade our number 2 draft pick after 3 years, that would boost team morale I'd imagine.
- Banned
- #83
What on earth does where he was drafted have to do with anything? The infatuation with a player's former draft position really boggles my mind.
Foley was a rookie, so that makes him less talented somehow?
Who are people like me exactly? People that have more passion for the club than any individual player?
Your argument is feeble. In theory, any talented player you trade has the chance to go and win the brownlow. But if you're telling me, with a straight face, that you think Thomas has a better chance at a brownlow than Foley, you're deluded.
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Foley is 18 months older than Daisy for what it's worth.
It doesn't mean much, but it just seems stupid that we would draft someone at number 2 in the draft - an not give them enough time to fulfill their potential. How often do we have the chance to get the second best player in the draft, based on ratings at the time? Very rarely. So my point is, why would we trade away someone we clearly rated so highly, and has shown plenty, before he has time to develop? Foley is almost 2 years older than Dale, and has been in the system for 2 more years. Foley was no world beater in his third year, that's for sure.
And yes, I'm telling you with a straight face, Thomas has a solid chance of one day winning a brownlow, if he develops as he should according to his potential. A bigger chance than Foley? Who knows, probably not. But it doesn't really matter, it wasn't the point I was making. The point I was making is that you don't trade a player of Thomas' quality and potential just to rectify your immediate deficiency.
- Banned
- #87
Firstly, drafts aren't created equal. The #2 player in one draft might be the #10 player in another.
Secondly, rarely will the player drafted at 2 actually wind up being the second-best. As much as we'd like our club to make the right decision, generally it won't work that way.
Never said Thomas couldn't win a brownlow. He does have blonde hair
If that was the case, I'd agree with you. That's not what's happening here though. We'd be getting a player of better quality and equal potential who plays a more important position.
Yes, with any risk comes a potential downside. And trading a guy like Thomas has its potential downsides. But as with any risk, you weigh up the positives and the negatives, and if there's more in the pro column, you make the deal. You can't just dismiss any risk because it could backfire - everything can backfire!
When we win a premiership, I'd be happy to go with the "it ain't broke" mantra. But until then, we have to look at all possible options, and make decisions that will improve the quality/balance of the team. Even if some of them have a certain element of risk.
I think Thomas comes up as trade bait because he was a number two pick and really surprised everyone with how well he played in his first year. His first year really set the bar up high and people have been frustrated that he's not meeting it. With Medhurst coming on very well we can look at trading a Thomas. I'd be reluctant to trade him, but if the offer is better than I'd go for it. As someone posted there is no one player greater than the club.
What pick a player was drafted isn't relevant after a few years except as a grading of your recruitment.
Many posts ago Hellfire you replied to mine regarding Anthony and I just want to point out that I never said Maxwell was better than him. I just said that no one would give us the value for Maxwell that we can get out of him. I agree Anthony does fit the Clement mold, but in a way so does O'Brien and Goldsack. How many clements can you have in the one backline? We have value to spare here and I think we can offload one. So given you have to give up quality to get quality, it comes down to which of O'brien, Goldy or Anthony are you willing to trade? Which is likely to get us the best value?
What pick a player was drafted isn't relevant after a few years except as a grading of your recruitment.
Many posts ago Hellfire you replied to mine regarding Anthony and I just want to point out that I never said Maxwell was better than him. I just said that no one would give us the value for Maxwell that we can get out of him. I agree Anthony does fit the Clement mold, but in a way so does O'Brien and Goldsack. How many clements can you have in the one backline? We have value to spare here and I think we can offload one. So given you have to give up quality to get quality, it comes down to which of O'brien, Goldy or Anthony are you willing to trade? Which is likely to get us the best value?
- Banned
- #89
Firstly, drafts aren't created equal. The #2 player in one draft might be the #10 player in another.
Secondly, rarely will the player drafted at 2 actually wind up being the second-best. As much as we'd like our club to make the right decision, generally it won't work that way.
Never said Thomas couldn't win a brownlow. He does have blonde hair
If that was the case, I'd agree with you. That's not what's happening here though. We'd be getting a player of better quality and equal potential who plays a more important position.
Yes, with any risk comes a potential downside. And trading a guy like Thomas has its potential downsides. But as with any risk, you weigh up the positives and the negatives, and if there's more in the pro column, you make the deal. You can't just dismiss any risk because it could backfire - everything can backfire!
When we win a premiership, I'd be happy to go with the "it ain't broke" mantra. But until then, we have to look at all possible options, and make decisions that will improve the quality/balance of the team. Even if some of them have a certain element of risk.
I can't be bothered separating your post...
Yes, I know that "rarely will the player drafted at 2 actually wind up being the second-best", which is why I said "based on ratings at the time".
And yeah, I'm over arguing about it, it's clear that you won't change your mind. I don't think the positives outweigh the potential negatives. I.e. I don't think the guaranteed long-term improvement that will come from Foley, outweighs the potential long-term loss of losing Thomas. Like you said, it's a massive risk, and one I definitely am not willing to take.
There is no way thomas would be traded anyway because he is our poster boy for the next 10 years. If there is something collingwood being advertised you can bet that his photo will be there. He is the sort of player that gets bums on seats which makes the club happy
Richie Tenenbaum
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Thomas is the smartest player on our list. He is tough for a player renowned as being flashy (I can remember a game against WC in his first season where he rode a massive bump and was ultimately injured, kept possession and fired out a handball to a team mate) has pace and good foot skills. If he can gain a few kilos he will be a far more effective midfielder.
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I don't know why people are bothering with this thread. After all, all we will do with any draft picks outside the top 5 is to draft athletes who can run but cant kick to targets.
I suggest you have a look at the stats for a player like Ablett and you may have your answer. Ablett was an inconsistent but talented half forward in his first 3 season (in fact for his first 5 seasons), prior to realising his potential last season.
I am not suggesting Thomas will be as good, but suggesting what he is showing now is his upper level is crazy IMO.
Yep Cloke never performs in big games. I mean getting player of the finals series last year is an indication of that isn't it. Fool.
I do not know how many premiership sides were built around half foward flankers.
There is this massive assumption that Thomas will improve, and because he came into the AFL and made an impact straight away that the improvement will turn him into an absolute superstar, I don't however see this happening.
I don't know if stats will support me on this or not but I don't think Thomas has improved much over the last three years from when he debut so I don't see why people assume that it will just happen. His tank will get better sure and he will develop a more AFL ready body but I just don't think he reads the play well enough for the midfield and don't know if he ever will, hence he is restricted to being a flanker.
I think thats the main thing that is getting him a game atm and it is a part of his problem. Where he was selected in the draft, his long blonde hair and his ability to do some rather freakish things have given him a profile which is fair bigger then his preformances to date deserve.
Pendles was outside the top 5, his one of the best kicks on our list.
He may not be at the upper levels of his ability but to suggest he has Ablett like scope for improvment is ridiculous. I would suggest that more often then not players that are of the flank/midfield mould end up being better flankers then midfields. Ablett is one of a rare few that turned out different. Thomas may go down this path but its far less likely then it is likely.
I guess we just disagree on his ability. IMO he has shown signs he can move into an onball role and do well, including some good clearances against West Coast in a final. I guess time will tell.
Keele
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For a thread that is a complete joke this post is by far the funniest.
Now that some are sick of posts and threads bagging players and asking for them to be dropped we are now 7 games into a season that follows one where we were a kick away from the grand final are we forgetting the offseason threads Get us a ruckman and we will show em... reality then hits home a few games in that sometimes teams with young guns have form loss... lets trade, trade and more trade, thats gotta be the answer to our problems
All this is just hope and speculation coming from would be but never could be recruiting managers.
The post I quote above is a perfect example
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