Oppo Camp 2013 non-Geelong AFL match and general discussion

[BotsMaster]

Voss to cats?

And Black and J Brown

Yes we can never have enough Brisbane premiership players. I think it should become club policy.

 

[manboob]

Just a naive question from me

Why would Thompson be charged and Goodwin wouldnt-there both assistant coaches there -and Goodwin was aware what was going on - he and Hird had communication with Dank in regards to the antiageing stuff they were both taking

Just dont want any harm to Geelong re Thompson -seems odd he was charged-and Goodwin wasnt

I think there is assistant coach: Goodwin and guy who tells Hird how to coach: Bomber.

 

[AM]

I don't know.
If penalties include the loss of points, I think it certain that Essendon will issue a writ claiming the decision is invalid, and seeking an injunction against the loss of points until the case is heard; that the AFL will oppose both claims but, if an injunction is granted, ask for an immediate trial; and that the court will very probably grant that application, so the court case takes place before the finals start. But there are any number of permutations. The court may, of course, dismiss outright Essendon's initial application for an injunction; it depends upon what legal grounds are available to Essendon, and how strong they are.
I think it will make an interesting change from the usual pre-finals ad infinitum injury reports, etc.

What if the Dons argued failure of process in that conclusions have been reached before all the evidence is in?

 

[darren forssman]

did anyone see ch9's embarrassing cross to the dons saga?

they were entirely unprepared, crossed to the sydney studio's and had kenny sutcliffe doing the report, he basically appeared to have no idea who essendon were and what the issue was. community tv would have done a better job.

hitchener and jones must have gone home for the night.

 

[FredLeDeux]

What if the Dons argued failure of process in that conclusions have been reached before all the evidence is in?

I think that is very likely to be one point of attack, and that the rules of natural justice generally are likely to get a good play. Others may include Demetriou's possibly conflicted position. It's impossible to tell what grounds may be available to Essendon without being privy to the ASADA Report and the AFL Rules insofar as they deal with this type of proceeding. I do not even know whether the club would have a right of appeal against a Commission decision to the Appeals Board, which might throw a spanner in the works time-wise.

 

[vealesy]

What if the Dons argued failure of process in that conclusions have been reached before all the evidence is in?

They can't really argue against bringing the game into disrepute though.

Its penalty negotiation time. Asada still need Dank. They have a few years if they want.

The AFL had to act now to protect the integrity of this years finals series.

 

[Menzelevium]

The whole Essendon situation still reeks. They came out, claimed to self report and said that they wanted to get to the bottom of what happened to the club. The report written by the guy they chose said that things were clearly not being controlled, and that it wasn't right. There were obviously injections of AOD - their captain admitted to it - yet as a club they continue to deny it can be proven, going back on the whole getting to the bottom of it stuff. And now they're likely to fight the charges, even though they apparently wanted to invite this investigation.

That they're dragging this out just seems arrogant. Take your medicine and get over it. You had your players do it.

 

[JUBJUB]

Just a naive question from me

Why would Thompson be charged and Goodwin wouldnt-there both assistant coaches there

Thompson is the puppett [Hird] controller

 

[Jmac2225]

Interesting they said AOD was not approved by WADA but no infractions for players yet... unless more evidence comes to hand..
They can't issue infractions anyway at the moment because it's only an interim report... still a lot that can happen with all this..

It's unnaproved by WADA but atleast to my understanding is not covered by ASADA policy in any way which is where the lines get blurred.

 

[manboob]

What if the Dons argued failure of process in that conclusions have been reached before all the evidence is in?

I think there are two investigations going on here in parallel 1) bringing the game into disrepute via shitty management practices and here the AFL would have almost a free hit 2) the whole drug use ASADA/WADA investigation. Two quite different but parallel investigations with different penalties.

P.S. I don't know far Essenscum will take taking this to court, I'd imagine there would be a pretty iron-clad contract between the AFL and clubs which means in the event of a buggering the club has to bend-over and take it... if you will...

 

[AM]

I think there are two investigations going on here in parallel 1) bringing the game into disrepute via shitty management practices and here the AFL would have almost a free hit 2) the whole drug use ASADA/WADA investigation. Two quite different but parallel investigations with different penalties.

P.S. I don't know far Essenscum will take taking this to court, I'd imagine there would be a pretty iron-clad contract between the AFL and clubs which means in the event of a buggering the club has to bend-over and take it... if you will...

Individuals from the club and the club itself would not have engaged counsel unless they intended to fight. Little has made that clear in any event. Seems to me to be a failure of process for a body to reach conclusions and impose penalties without having all the evidence before it. That won't occur until the final ASADA report is in.

 

[manboob]

AM the governance issue is pretty open and shut and has to be seen as separate from any ASADA investigation. They don't really need evidence that a prohibited substance was taken. The fact that the environment was pharmacologically experimental one is what is at issue here not the outcomes of that I would suggest.

 

[AM]

AM the governance issue is pretty open and shut aside from any ASADA investigation.

From my reading of what is publicly available ASADA didn't make any crucial findings that weren't in the Switowski report. Following Switowski Essendon conceded some protocols were sub par. Did so again tonight. Governance is part of the equation. Until evidence relating to the other part of the equation is in it's hard to see that procedural fairness has been met.

It was interesting that AFL legal adviser added the caveat tonight: "...... at the present time there will be no infraction notices issued under the AFL anti-doping code." A lot of water to go under the bridge yet.

 

[manboob]

A veritable tsunami's worth.

 

[Willo_]

Interesting that someone who claims to have a source that is 'running at 100%' on the essendon board says there is no chance at all of them losing points.. claims the afl want to strip them of 1st 2 round draft pics the next 2 years, big fine and wants to give the 4 individuals named suspensions (6 months)
Essendon will refuse to accept the god Hirdy and others going down and this is where the courts will come into it.

He also thinks the players are completely fine and WADA have no interest in going after them...

 

[Copernicus]

Interesting that someone who claims to have a source that is 'running at 100%' on the essendon board says there is no chance at all of them losing points.. claims the afl want to strip them of 1st 2 round draft pics the next 2 years, big fine and wants to give the 4 individuals named suspensions (6 months)
Essendon will refuse to accept the god Hirdy and others going down and this is where the courts will come into it.

He also thinks the players are completely fine and WADA have no interest in going after them...

Aka a delusional muppet.

Their skipper has admitted being injected with what by all accounts is a banned drug. How the Bombers fans think that the players will escape sanction is beyond me.

Then again, I am just over this saga and wish they would hurry the * up and get it finished.

 

[sauron256]

Their skipper has admitted being injected with what by all accounts is a banned drug. How the Bombers fans think that the players will escape sanction is beyond me.

This. I don't understand how the players cannot receive an infraction notice. Watson has confirmed that he was given AOD-9604. WADA have confirmed that it was a banned substance. We've seen evidence that not knowing you were taking a banned substance is no excuse (think Warnie, and VFL player Matt Clark).

This whole time the process has been: if a player takes a banned substance, then they have to face up to the consequences. No ifs, no buts, no pleading ignorance. If a player is cleared after confirming that he took a banned substance then it makes a mockery of this whole process.

 

[Hoffy95]

Watson admitted to being injected with what he "believed" to be AOD-9604.

The problem is they don't actually have any concrete proof.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Watson admitted to being injected with what he "believed" to be AOD-9604.

The problem is they don't actually have any concrete proof.

They don't have any proof of which players were injected with which illegal substance, if any, which is why none of them have been charged, and why that part of the investigation is on-going.

 

[vealesy]

They don't have any proof of which players were injected with which illegal substance, if any, which is why none of them have been charged, and why that part of the investigation is on-going.

Which should mean the whole list gets banned.

Just because it cant be pinpointed who took what, does not mean there is no chance of infractions for any players, any player who is a possibility of being doped SHOULD be banned.

 

[Willo_]

Watson admitted to being injected with what he "believed" to be AOD-9604.

The problem is they don't actually have any concrete proof.

Which is not good either.... surely they should know what a player was injected with.. meaning the docs and player..

 

[Copernicus]

Which is not good either.... surely they should know what a player was injected with.. meaning the docs and player..

It all just sounds like total bullshit.

Of course they knew. How could they not? This is all just an arse-covering exercise of mammoth proportions, and the drooling Bombers fans are lapping it up like a dog goes after his own vomit.

 

[Willo_]

It all just sounds like total bullshit.

Of course they knew. How could they not? This is all just an arse-covering exercise of mammoth proportions, and the drooling Bombers fans are lapping it up like a dog goes after his own vomit.

It's just selective wording.... he knows damn well he was.. but saying he 'believes' he was isn't admitting anything

 

[Willo_]

Also something I just remembered seeing... the same bloke with the 'source' also said the bombers have one of the top 3 talented lists in the comp....

So probably deserves to be taken not so seriously

 

[AM]

They don't have any proof of which players were injected with which illegal substance, if any, which is why none of them have been charged, and why that part of the investigation is on-going.

Reckon a significant reason for the interim report is that from 1 August this year ASADA’s investigative powers were considerably strengthened. Amongst those strengthened powers ASADA can now:


“.......... issue a written "disclosure notice" requiring a person to do one or more of the following within the period specified in the notice:

- attend an interview with ASADA investigators
- give the kind of information specified in the notice to ASADA
- produce specific documents, materials (including electronic materials and products) and things (such as video cameras, medications and training bags) to ASADA investigators”

Which includes the power :

....... to compel not only an athlete to assist in ASADA investigations but also their associates and support persons.

Hello Mr Dank!

There are civil penalties for failure to comply.

In their media release ASADA said:

........ it is a complex investigation and is ongoing. It is essential for the integrity of sport that ASADA comprehensively analyses the information it has now obtained. ASADA’s enhanced powers, which came into effect on 1 August 2013, are now available to be used to ensure all possible anti-doping rule violations are fully investigated, and to finalise these matters as quickly and efficiently as possible.

So those who find it boring, expect to be bored. For others of us, we live in interesting times.