2014 Potential Draftee and Trade Watch

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dazbroncos said:
Or Bates off the rookie and Sam on….

Go Catters
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Cutting a guy after 1 season, the most of which he was injured?

Be careful where you post that Daz, people have long memories around here. ;)
 
The Pivotonian said:
Cutting a guy after 1 season, the most of which he was injured?

Be careful where you post that Daz, people have long memories around here. ;)
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just getting edgy in my old age….. and maybe some Eardley bitterness….:cool:

Bates like Hartman is a long shot - and Hartman has shown how that can go. Given the options of a fit Cowan, Bates and Sam ( based on the little I know of him) I'm just looking at the reality of it all.

Only so many chairs to go around. More chance of delisting a Bates type and getting him to play VFL for a year and get redrafted…
Same could be said for Cowan too I guess.

Will be an interesting few weeks…

Go Catters
 
dazbroncos said:
just getting edgy in my old age….. and maybe some Eardley bitterness….:cool:

Bates like Hartman is a long shot - and Hartman has shown how that can go. Given the options of a fit Cowan, Bates and Sam ( based on the little I know of him) I'm just looking at the reality of it all.

Only so many chairs to go around. More chance of delisting a Bates type and getting him to play VFL for a year and get redrafted…
Same could be said for Cowan too I guess.

Will be an interesting few weeks…

Go Catters
Click to expand...
Yeah, I hear what you are saying. Just remember Turbs copped a bit for having the audacity to suggest Hartman should be cut and re-rookied because his form indicated that is where he should have been (I tend to agree, his form last year wasn't great and it is a credit to him how much he improved this year).

But people still bring it up (unfairly I think).

As for Eardley bitterness, I understand. I'm facing the loss of Schroder this year to boot.
 
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dazbroncos said:
Or Bates off the rookie and Sam on….

Go Catters
Click to expand...

On SamB ...

maybe a late main list pick rather than Rookie but that's a Wells issue to judge. Crows board is saying the same thing looking at Sam , so will he be there for a Rookie pick?

On Bates..

On the subject of delisting of a guy after 1 year... A prudent man would probably say "No Comment".

But we are here to make comments aren't we?....

So the issues that revolve around his list spot as I see them (top of the head)

I had an issue with the Bates listing going back 12 months , I have been strong that the last Rookie spot should have been a Ruck Rookie of some sort. Now We have a CatB and we should add another of some sort , so perhaps not the same issue now.

I have no knowledge to basis any talent assessment on Bates has hardly played. So the club may have a better idea but any choice would be taking into account his off-field attitude and persona. Again no Knowledge.

What are doing with some other chronic injured players who have been here longer? I think you may be on the same train as me , Id prefer to support Cowan as a VFL player. If we will be picking deep next year , why not have a few on our VFL list that are legit options. I doubt Cowan would be looked at bu other clubs. Could we do the same for Bates? I feel our List management ,needs to get an extra couple of guys(min) in the 22-26, somehow. A guy like Polkinghorne from Brisbane would be someone id consider if we have list spots , to me its about 2016 when we have lost so many 30 plus players , we will need 3-4 extra player Selwoods age. http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-09-21/polk-wants-to-dance-again.

So with all that ; to decide to delist/keep Bates ; it would only be advantageous to the club if we could replace him with a recycled player who would be ready to help in now and in 12 months.

But....... are we now saying he has not enough talent or poor attitude? As I said I have no info on him , but small defenders are an area we are not strong in. To remove him after one injury affected year , when we have kept several others much longer?

And if there is a comparison to Hartman to be made , who knows what he will be in 12 months time. When I look at Hartman now i hear the song "Tainted Love" ringing in my head. I not sure I will ever be able to look at the kid from a neutral assessment position now.

I still think he looks a unusual type , is he slow or does he just look it? I thought the same about SJ too so we can only hope he reaches the same heights. If BH plays a 100 games , it will have been a great pick for Wells and great job for our development.

And if hard choices are made ; strong support must be forthcoming. If Bates was removed Id hope the club would offer him max support and a VFL spot as well , if there are no other options for him.
 
I feel that Bates was a free hit with 3 rookie picks last year and him being the last. Pick 57 odd from memory. With 70 ND picks he was over 100th in line. He is a player (like has been suggested) in an area of need (small defender) and I don't mind Wells thinking than he can pick up one as a rookie.

To me it seems if the Cowen re-rookie thing is true it would mean we don't take a new rookie this year and to me this would be a mistake. R1 rookie pick's are the most likely to kick on, and if bates hasn't works his arse to the bone for the unlikely opportunity he got last year I say cut your losses and reload.
 
Turbocat said:
On SamB ...

maybe a late main list pick rather than Rookie but that's a Wells issue to judge. Crows board is saying the same thing looking at Sam , so will he be there for a Rookie pick?

On Bates..

On the subject of delisting of a guy after 1 year... A prudent man would probably say "No Comment".

But we are here to make comments aren't we?....

So the issues that revolve around his list spot as I see them (top of the head)

I had an issue with the Bates listing going back 12 months , I have been strong that the last Rookie spot should have been a Ruck Rookie of some sort. Now We have a CatB and we should add another of some sort , so perhaps not the same issue now.

I have no knowledge to basis any talent assessment on Bates has hardly played. So the club may have a better idea but any choice would be taking into account his off-field attitude and persona. Again no Knowledge.

What are doing with some other chronic injured players who have been here longer? I think you may be on the same train as me , Id prefer to support Cowan as a VFL player. If we will be picking deep next year , why not have a few on our VFL list that are legit options. I doubt Cowan would be looked at bu other clubs. Could we do the same for Bates? I feel our List management ,needs to get an extra couple of guys(min) in the 22-26, somehow. A guy like Polkinghorne from Brisbane would be someone id consider if we have list spots , to me its about 2016 when we have lost so many 30 plus players , we will need 3-4 extra player Selwoods age. http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-09-21/polk-wants-to-dance-again.

So with all that ; to decide to delist/keep Bates ; it would only be advantageous to the club if we could replace him with a recycled player who would be ready to help in now and in 12 months.

But....... are we now saying he has not enough talent or poor attitude? As I said I have no info on him , but small defenders are an area we are not strong in. To remove him after one injury affected year , when we have kept several others much longer?

And if there is a comparison to Hartman to be made , who knows what he will be in 12 months time. When I look at Hartman now i hear the song "Tainted Love" ringing in my head. I not sure I will ever be able to look at the kid from a neutral assessment position now.

I still think he looks a unusual type , is he slow or does he just look it? I thought the same about SJ too so we can only hope he reaches the same heights. If BH plays a 100 games , it will have been a great pick for Wells and great job for our development.

And if hard choices are made ; strong support must be forthcoming. If Bates was removed Id hope the club would offer him max support and a VFL spot as well , if there are no other options for him.
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I was on board with the Hartman delist and re rookie option to give us back that senior list spot.
I can still taste the straw to this day where Hartman made me eat my hat. Im just glad I was not advocating him being cut and only repositioned!!

As for Bates, he was, in my mind, the extreme roughy. Now he has hardly played thru injury and there was one or two unconfirmed statements about his dedication. The massive difference between Hartman and Bates was that Hartman, whilst not offering much early at all like Bates, was head down working his arse off.

Based on that rumour, and the fact that Cowan is in the age group we lack, seemed to have more on offer based on what I've seen, he would be a better rookie option for 2015. Just my thought. Not saying Bates won't be something but Id rather go with Baulderstone and Cowan … for now…

Go Catters
 
dazbroncos said:
I was on board with the Hartman delist and re rookie option to give us back that senior list spot.
I can still taste the straw to this day where Hartman made me eat my hat. Im just glad I was not advocating him being cut and only repositioned!!

As for Bates, he was, in my mind, the extreme roughy. Now he has hardly played thru injury and there was one or two unconfirmed statements about his dedication. The massive difference between Hartman and Bates was that Hartman, whilst not offering much early at all like Bates, was head down working his arse off.

Based on that rumour, and the fact that Cowan is in the age group we lack, seemed to have more on offer based on what I've seen, he would be a better rookie option for 2015. Just my thought. Not saying Bates won't be something but Id rather go with Baulderstone and Cowan … for now…

Go Catters
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Gezz Daz, give me straw in my mouth than splinters in my bum. I agree with your Bates call and even with hindsight the Hartman rookie call. Just because he would be a rookie right now, not sure it would have changed Hartman's standing in the team as long as he was elevated ahead of Sheringham this year he would have still played some AFL games.
 
The Pivotonian said:
Yeah, I hear what you are saying. Just remember Turbs copped a bit for having the audacity to suggest Hartman should be cut and re-rookied because his form indicated that is where he should have been (I tend to agree, his form last year wasn't great and it is a credit to him how much he improved this year).

But people still bring it up (unfairly I think).

As for Eardley bitterness, I understand. I'm facing the loss of Schroder this year to boot.
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I have no problems bringing up the fact that that Hartman was written off before getting a second season under his belt. I think writing off any kid, especially one as young as Hartman, after one season is premature and I stated so.

However Pivo, I do agree with the "unfair" comment.
I don't want to open any old wounds here, but to mount a personal attack on someone's character for suggesting that Hartman should have been cut was considerably more than "unfair".
 
The rabbi said:
I have no problems bringing up the fact that that Hartman was written off before getting a second season under his belt. I think writing off any kid, especially one as young as Hartman, after one season is premature and I stated so.
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That's fine and that is your prerogative. I don't recall you having a personal crack at anyone who suggested it.

But I recall other posters being quite disparaging, even well after the event.

I might have more tolerance for the practice if I saw more people bringing up times when a poster was right.

People seem to remember when someone made a bad call but not many seem to remember when a poster made a good call.

The rabbi said:
However Pivo, I do agree with the "unfair" comment.
I don't want to open any old wounds here, but to mount a personal attack on someone's character for suggesting that Hartman should have been cut was considerably more than "unfair".
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I have a real issue with people questioning someone's footy acumen or worse still, their intelligence, just because they dared to express an opinion about something they enjoy or have a passion about.

This is an opinion based forum, as such, people need to learn to accept some opinions will differ from their own.
 
dazbroncos said:
just getting edgy in my old age….. and maybe some Eardley bitterness….:cool:

Bates like Hartman is a long shot - and Hartman has shown how that can go. Given the options of a fit Cowan, Bates and Sam ( based on the little I know of him) I'm just looking at the reality of it all.

Only so many chairs to go around. More chance of delisting a Bates type and getting him to play VFL for a year and get redrafted…
Same could be said for Cowan too I guess.

Will be an interesting few weeks…

Go Catters
Click to expand...

Big difference with Hartman and Bates, Hartman was drafted albeit at the extreme bottom of the age, and Bates a final rookie choice. Hartman was a baby, just clueless for the task to begin with, and I think they knew this would be the case with him for a season or two.
This year Hartman has developed into a quite solid 188cm mid/fwd and their perseverance seems to be paying off.
On the other hand Cowan when going, is good for 30+ possessions in the reserves, so they know he can play. Between a healthy Cowan and a healthy Bates it'd be a no brainer for Cowan.
 
The rabbi said:
I am beginning to wonder if a "healthy Cowan" may actually be a mythological figure.
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Call him "Nessie".

Often discussed but rarely seen.
 

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Cat Addict said:
Look more like Wally
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I try not to rag on players but Cowan would really want to get on the park next year and show a bit.

I think he is pretty lucky to keep his spot on the senior list. Of all the guys with injury clouds hanging over them, Cowan looked, to me, to be the most expendable.
 
Anyone catch the young stars game.

I caught parts of the the first half and the last quarter

I liked the look of Weller and Steele(his physicality but his disposal let him down) and Number 13 of the U17 team, I didn't catch his name.
Nakia Cockatoo kicked a great goal in the last quarter where he dragged the ball out from a pack of players in the near the centre circle, fended off a player took two bounces and kick the goal from 40 on the run.
 
10lana said:
Anyone catch the young stars game.

I caught parts of the the first half and the last quarter

I liked the look of Weller and Steele(his physicality but his disposal let him down) and Number 13 of the U17 team, I didn't catch his name.
Nakia Cockatoo kicked a great goal in the last quarter where he dragged the ball out from a pack of players in the near the centre circle, fended off a player took two bounces and kick the goal from 40 on the run.
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No, unfortunately I had to listen to Luke Darcy's drivel
 
10lana said:
Anyone catch the young stars game.

I caught parts of the the first half and the last quarter

I liked the look of Weller and Steele(his physicality but his disposal let him down) and Number 13 of the U17 team, I didn't catch his name.
Nakia Cockatoo kicked a great goal in the last quarter where he dragged the ball out from a pack of players in the near the centre circle, fended off a player took two bounces and kick the goal from 40 on the run.
Click to expand...

Yes commented in the other thread 10L
The was quite a few wasn't there. Weller certainly only confirmed what Id like to see more of in a Cat jumper.
NakiaC , man that was eye opening stuff. Not sure of his status re the 4 teams north but he would have had several clubs writing his number down.
He had Koutafides type feel mixed with the burst out the centre of Dangerfield. No fluke either nearly did one earlier as well.
But there were others , that I liked. The kid Foote , doing a little bit of Martin fend off and growl ....gees as you would expect several showed something. And how tall was that kid in the ruck ...
 
10lana said:
Anyone catch the young stars game.

I caught parts of the the first half and the last quarter

I liked the look of Weller and Steele(his physicality but his disposal let him down) and Number 13 of the U17 team, I didn't catch his name.
Nakia Cockatoo kicked a great goal in the last quarter where he dragged the ball out from a pack of players in the near the centre circle, fended off a player took two bounces and kick the goal from 40 on the run.
Click to expand...
When I saw a NSW match earlier in the year I actually liked Steele more than Heeney.

I think he has a bit to work with.

And, while not seeing him as he was injured, Cookatoo was regarded as the best NT player this year.
 
The Pivotonian said:
When I saw a NSW match earlier in the year I actually liked Steele more than Heeney.

I think he has a bit to work with.

And, while not seeing him as he was injured, Cookatoo was regarded as the best NT player this year.
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The bidding process for some of their players is as FSons. Not sure Cockatoo is one of these but huge upside id say. Certainly lacks polish but a power player lurks there I feel.

Id reckon Henney will push for games very quickly. Add Mills and Dunkley they have talent on tap.
 
Turbocat said:
Id reckon Henney will push for games very quickly. Add Mills and Dunkley they have talent on tap.
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Yeah, well Dunkley is a F-S so not much that can be done there.

As for them getting Mills next year after Heeney this year...that's only 2 guys out of god know's how many that go through those Academies.

I wouldn't be calling for the walls to be torn down just yet.

Besides, after today, Sydney need all the help they can get. :D
 
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