NFL 2015 - Off Season Discussion

[Dixie Flatline]

 

[rumply]

Another quiet day in duckland...

 

[Sven]

Pierre Thomas reported to be cut by the Saints.

and are reportedly shopping Curtis Lofton.....

 

[manureid]

I just hope the Eagles trade us the earth for our pick to get Mariotta!

 

[Sven]

Another quiet day in duckland...

And meanwhile, in the Philadelphia Inquirer....

 

[Exe Gesis]

That trade with Tampa I mentioned also involves getting the number 1 pick btw

 

[JeffDunne]

and are reportedly shopping Curtis Lofton.....

That makes sense if we're chasing a replacement.

 

[rumply]

That trade with Tampa I mentioned also involves getting the number 1 pick btw

makes a bit more sense if that's the case

 

[Exe Gesis]

Bucs get...
Foles, 2015 1 2 3, 2016 1 2 3, 2017 1 2

Eagles get...
Mariota, Evans

Judge...

 

[Brasher]

Bucs get...
Foles, 2015 1 2 3, 2016 1 2 3, 2017 1 2

Eagles get...
Mariota, Evans

Judge...

Neither team will be better off in the long run.

That's a big time mortgage for the Eagles long term...if Larry Flynt, as this is an all in betr, fails in Phillie it is going to be hard for a replacement to turn things around with no draft picks and well, the Bucs are the Bucs, no better place for extra draft picks to go and die....except maybe Cleveland.

To be honest, I'm only worried that the Eagles pull some mega trade with a divisional rival.

 

[Dixie Flatline]

Bucs get...
Foles, 2015 1 2 3, 2016 1 2 3, 2017 1 2

Eagles get...
Mariota, Evans

Judge...

Evans is a stud. Philly might burn for the next couple of seasons, giving Tampa the opportunity to pick high in each draft, but Evans is a known commodity and is going to be an excellent player (barring catastrophic injury) in the NFL for quite a few seasons. Pair him with Glennon/Winston/Mariota, together with V-Jax, and the offence could be good for quite a few seasons. One commentator has suggested that the Bucs bypass both Winson and Mariota and take Leonard Williams with the first pick to bolster the defensive line and there is some merit to that.

Another perspective is that the Bucs are currently struggling to attract people to come watch their games, reportedly. Trading a stud WR, even if it is for a swag of picks, doesn't help them maintain interest in their team.

Although it superficially looks a good deal for the Bucs, I think they should be very cautious.

 

[ausbacker]

In essence, the deal would break down to:

• Philadelphia receive Pick 7 - 2014 (Evans) and Pick 1 - 2015 draft
• Tampa Bay receive Pick 88 - 2012 (Foles), Picks 20, 52, 84 - 2015 & Picks Round 1,2,3 - 2016 & Picks Round 1,2 - 2017.

Let's assume the rumor may be true. You get pick 1 and pick 7 (an incredibly productive, talented rookie) for mid round picks this year, next year and the following year. Assuming the Eagles don't take a major step back, the 2016 and 2017 picks will most likely be mid round picks. Compounding that, the Eagles have cap space and are free to make a major run in free agency.

On face value, to me, that doesn't seem as stupid as it initially looks. If Chip Kelly believes his system can make the player, then it explains a willingness to trade away draft assets to accumulate proven talent and high ceiling rookies. Personally, I think it's too much but if it lands you your franchise QB, what price is too high to pay?

I'm not saying it is something I would do but Mariota and Evans combined with signing impact Free Agents would be a huge score for Philadelphia. That said, I find it difficult to believe Chip Kelly, despite his big brave balls, gives up that draft capital for a draft pick and a player.

 

[Sven]

Bucs get...
Foles, 2015 1 2 3, 2016 1 2 3, 2017 1 2

Eagles get...
Mariota, Evans

Judge...

The deal would be a lose/lose.

Mariota is far from NFL ready and the loss of picks would basically consign the Eagles to be free agency dependant for the next three years. The pressure would be off their salary cap with two offensive pieces on their rookie deals, but the ability to fill holes in the team without the draft is a big risk IMO. I could understand the move more if the Eagles had kept Lesean McCoy, as the they could have leaned more heavily on the run game whilst Mariota is gaining NFL experience.

From a Bucs perspective they're basically trading away Evans for nothing. You could argue that, based on the Rams trade for RGIII (three 1st round picks and a 2nd), that trading up to #1 would account for most of the picks given as compensation.

 

[Monocle]

All good points ausbaker.

No doubt that a quality QB and WR that have a decade of football left on them is a solid offensive platform.
Like you I don't think I would do the deal but the more I think about it the more it makes sense if they pick up some quality in FA .

For what it's worth I don't think either of the two top rated QB's are worth the # 1 pick , I think Williams is the best player available but ....hey that's just my opinion and Kelly is wanting to impose his game style on the Ducks....sorry Eagles, so the reasoning of acquiring Mariota makes some sense.

 

[Blacky]

I disagree, I think that is a win for the Bucs.

 

[Blacky]

Removing yourself from the draft for three years is a dangerous move. Especially if it's for an unproven player.

 

[rumply]

Bucs get...
Foles, 2015 1 2 3, 2016 1 2 3, 2017 1 2

Eagles get...
Mariota, Evans

Judge...

plus a fair chunk of the $50mil about to be splurged on free agency - it may prove to be a disaster but wtf, the Eagles haven't been a legit threat for a long time so go for it I say

 

[Zealbee]

I disagree, I think that is a win for the Bucs.

Yeah it's a win for the Bucs but as an Eagles fan I wouldn't be that unhappy with it. Evans would be a bonus. Having Evans, Maclin, Matthews, Ertz, Mariota, Sproles and whoever the new RB is in the same offence would be pretty awesome IMO.

 

[ausbacker]

Removing yourself from the draft for three years is a dangerous move. Especially if it's for an unproven player.

I agree given the draft is a well of potentially productive, low cost contracts but you cannot look at it in isolation. If the Eagles give that up, you have to appraise their moves in free agency and trades. Given that qualification, the loss of draft picks significantly affects their ability to trade assets.

 

[ausbacker]

The deal would be a lose/lose.

Mariota is far from NFL ready and the loss of picks would basically consign the Eagles to be free agency dependant for the next three years. The pressure would be off their salary cap with two offensive pieces on their rookie deals, but the ability to fill holes in the team without the draft is a big risk IMO. I could understand the move more if the Eagles had kept Lesean McCoy, as the they could have leaned more heavily on the run game whilst Mariota is gaining NFL experience.

From a Bucs perspective they're basically trading away Evans for nothing. You could argue that, based on the Rams trade for RGIII (three 1st round picks and a 2nd), that trading up to #1 would account for most of the picks given as compensation.

The Rams made out like bandits because they made a calculated decision that the Redskins would be rubbish. Philadelphia isn't Washington. Despite whatever people think of Lurie, he isn't half the parasite Snyder is.

 

[Primetime Pricey]

Talk today is eagles trade with Tampa. Foles to them for mike Evans but.... Picks.. 1 2 & 3 this year, 1 2 & 3 next plus 1 & 2 the year after..

Kelly is out of his mind.

Kelly been watching Draft Day? haha

 

[Dixie Flatline]

Thinking it further, if the Bucs land Foles as part of the mega-deal, then they will probably look to move Glennon on, given they're about the same vintage, play the same position and are quite similar in terms of their playing style. The Bills and the Browns are already out of the QB market, having traded for Cassel and signed McCown respectively, so the market for QBs is beginning to shrink. I suspect the Jets won't be active trade partners because they're already out either a sixth round or fourth round pick, depending on whether they keep or can Harvin.

The Bucs could end up finding that the market for Glennon is not that strong because other teams, in this market, would rather throw money at a free agent QB than give up a pick to acquire one through a trade.

At the moment, the Bucs do actually have an offence that can rack up yards and produce points if they have the right guy under centre. Going into the 2015 season, as it currently stands, they have Evans and V-Jax as the primary wide receivers, ASJ as the first team TE, and Martin, Rainey and Sims at running back. Subtract Evans from that list of skill position players and the offence doesn't look anywhere near as strong.

The more I think about it, the less upside I see for Tampa Bay in this deal.

 

[Blacky]

I agree given the draft is a well of potentially productive, low cost contracts but you cannot look at it in isolation. If the Eagles give that up, you have to appraise their moves in free agency and trades. Given that qualification, the loss of draft picks significantly affects their ability to trade assets.

The Rams made out like bandits because they made a calculated decision that the Redskins would be rubbish. Philadelphia isn't Washington. Despite whatever people think of Lurie, he isn't half the parasite Snyder is.

I think you're giving too much credit to Philly

 

[Exe Gesis]

The expectation on Mariota knowing he cost 390 picks would surely do his head in, too nervous, and then teams are gonna single him out for a crunching hit when Kelly has him running the ball too much. Asking for trouble trading so many picks for a running qb. Will surely get injured early and on top lose his nerve even more. Already has overly happy feet

 

[Blacky]

Thinking it further, if the Bucs land Foles as part of the mega-deal, then they will probably look to move Glennon on, given they're about the same vintage, play the same position and are quite similar in terms of their playing style. The Bills and the Browns are already out of the QB market, having traded for Cassel and signed McCown respectively, so the market for QBs is beginning to shrink. I suspect the Jets won't be active trade partners because they're already out either a sixth round or fourth round pick, depending on whether they keep or can Harvin.

The Bucs could end up finding that the market for Glennon is not that strong because other teams, in this market, would rather throw money at a free agent QB than give up a pick to acquire one through a trade.

At the moment, the Bucs do actually have an offence that can rack up yards and produce points if they have the right guy under centre. Going into the 2015 season, as it currently stands, they have Evans and V-Jax as the primary wide receivers, ASJ as the first team TE, and Martin, Rainey and Sims at running back. Subtract Evans from that list of skill position players and the offence doesn't look anywhere near as strong.

The more I think about it, the less upside I see for Tampa Bay in this deal.

Gaining 2 firsts, 3 seconds and 2 thirds (not including phillys first this year) AND they get Foles. I am sure they would be able to fill their many holes and it would give them ammo to move around the next three drafts.

I would think they could get a mid rounder for Glennon, or they can leave him to compete with Foles to cover themselves.

Evans is a stud, but they aren't winning a Super Bowl in the next couple of years so this way they can rebuild

The biggest thing I think could hurt them is not taking Winston. I rate him and think he, evans and ASJ could be amazing