List Mgmt. 2017 GC Draft/Trade Thread/FA - National Draft Pick 19

[Matchu]

I think possibly taking a different perspective on the Weller trade could provide a reason to feel better about the deal. In American sports, teams are often implored to provide their superstars with the 'help' they need to achieve greatness. When LeBron James decided to return to Cleveland, the Cavaliers held the number 1 pick in the draft and drafted a player named Andrew Wiggins, but speculation was rife that they were about to trade him for a player that could instantly help LeBron compete for a Championship.

Sure enough, Wiggins was traded less than two months later during their preseason for an established All Star named Kevin Love. LeBron didn't join the Cavs only to wait a few years while the young guys developed - he wanted to compete with the big boys from day one. So, the Cavs got him 'help' in Kevin Love and they went all the way to the Championship series that season (it's called the Finals in America) with a team that had finished last the season before.

I feel the same logic can be applied to the Weller situation. The Suns know they need to win games in 2018 in order to increase their chances of keeping Lynch. Weller 'helps' them achieve that goal. Would Brayshaw, Dow or LDU have had the same instant impact as Weller? Possibly, but it's a risk. Weller is a known commodity (best 22 player already) who is on an upward trajectory statistically and has played every game over the last two seasons. Not only that, he's also on a long-term contract with the Suns so Lynch knows he isn't going anywhere.

It's undeniable that Weller is better than Gold Coast's 22nd best player so he instantly makes them a better team and it's a near guarantee that he'll contribute to the 2018 season more than whoever they would have taken with the 2nd pick last year. You have to pick your moments when superstars are off contract and I think the Suns have increased their chances of keeping Lynch long-term by recruiting Weller. Then there's likely to be a flow on effect next year when Steven May becomes a free agent. He is more likely to stay with the knowledge that Lynch (and Weller) are locked in long-term.

 

[Jirik13]

I think possibly taking a different perspective on the Weller trade could provide a reason to feel better about the deal. In American sports, teams are often implored to provide their superstars with the 'help' they need to achieve greatness. When LeBron James decided to return to Cleveland, the Cavaliers held the number 1 pick in the draft and drafted a player named Andrew Wiggins, but speculation was rife that they were about to trade him for a player that could instantly help LeBron compete for a Championship.

Sure enough, Wiggins was traded less than two months later during their preseason for an established All Star named Kevin Love. LeBron didn't join the Cavs only to wait a few years while the young guys developed - he wanted to compete with the big boys from day one. So, the Cavs got him 'help' in Kevin Love and they went all the way to the Championship series that season (it's called the Finals in America) with a team that had finished last the season before.

I feel the same logic can be applied to the Weller situation. The Suns know they need to win games in 2018 in order to increase their chances of keeping Lynch. Weller 'helps' them achieve that goal. Would Brayshaw, Dow or LDU have had the same instant impact as Weller? Possibly, but it's a risk. Weller is a known commodity (best 22 player already) who is on an upward trajectory statistically and has played every game over the last two seasons. Not only that, he's also on a long-term contract with the Suns so Lynch knows he isn't going anywhere.

It's undeniable that Weller is better than Gold Coast's 22nd best player so he instantly makes them a better team and it's a near guarantee that he'll contribute to the 2018 season more than whoever they would have taken with the 2nd pick last year. You have to pick your moments when superstars are off contract and I think the Suns have increased their chances of keeping Lynch long-term by recruiting Weller. Then there's likely to be a flow on effect next year when Steven May becomes a free agent. He is more likely to stay with the knowledge that Lynch (and Weller) are locked in long-term.

Absolutely agree with you argument. Weller for sure makes Suns better this year than any pick 2 and if it helps to convince Tom to stay - great! What annoys me most about the trade that we could have both Weller and pick 2 if not for stupidity to guarantee the trade and made this info public by Weller's camp.

 

[Matchu]

Absolutely agree with you argument. Weller for sure makes Suns better this year than any pick 2 and if it helps to convince Tom to stay - great! What annoys me most about the trade that we could have both Weller and pick 2 if not for stupidity to guarantee the trade and made this info public by Weller's camp.

It certainly wasn't handled as well as it could have been but these things happen sometimes and, as it turned out, the club had to choose whether they wanted pick 2 or Weller. But let's not pretend like the Suns didn't try to keep pick 2, because we know they completed the West Coast trade with Weller in mind. I also remember people saying the club should just wait until the end of 2018 and pick him up when he's off contract but that defeats the whole purpose of creating a better team to convince Lynch to stay. As a recruiter, you live and die by these kinds of decisions but ultimately you can hang your hat on the fact that you tried to give the club a good chance of keeping Lynch long-term by immediately giving him more reasons to stay.

Sometimes all it takes is one key player signing on for it to snowball into multiple re-signings and I definitely think May will re-sign next year if he knows Lynch has committed long-term.

 

[Iva Bigun]

I think possibly taking a different perspective on the Weller trade could provide a reason to feel better about the deal. In American sports, teams are often implored to provide their superstars with the 'help' they need to achieve greatness. When LeBron James decided to return to Cleveland, the Cavaliers held the number 1 pick in the draft and drafted a player named Andrew Wiggins, but speculation was rife that they were about to trade him for a player that could instantly help LeBron compete for a Championship.

Sure enough, Wiggins was traded less than two months later during their preseason for an established All Star named Kevin Love. LeBron didn't join the Cavs only to wait a few years while the young guys developed - he wanted to compete with the big boys from day one. So, the Cavs got him 'help' in Kevin Love and they went all the way to the Championship series that season (it's called the Finals in America) with a team that had finished last the season before.

I feel the same logic can be applied to the Weller situation. The Suns know they need to win games in 2018 in order to increase their chances of keeping Lynch. Weller 'helps' them achieve that goal. Would Brayshaw, Dow or LDU have had the same instant impact as Weller? Possibly, but it's a risk. Weller is a known commodity (best 22 player already) who is on an upward trajectory statistically and has played every game over the last two seasons. Not only that, he's also on a long-term contract with the Suns so Lynch knows he isn't going anywhere.

It's undeniable that Weller is better than Gold Coast's 22nd best player so he instantly makes them a better team and it's a near guarantee that he'll contribute to the 2018 season more than whoever they would have taken with the 2nd pick last year. You have to pick your moments when superstars are off contract and I think the Suns have increased their chances of keeping Lynch long-term by recruiting Weller. Then there's likely to be a flow on effect next year when Steven May becomes a free agent. He is more likely to stay with the knowledge that Lynch (and Weller) are locked in long-term.

Well thought out and explained Matchu as usual, such a great contributor to our board.
The K Love deal also including another no1 pick in Anthony Bennett so that was 2 no1 picks for K Love, in the end they won a championship so you have to say it was a good trade. The Cavs future now looks bleak with Kyrie ( another no1 pick) also gone and LeBron himself likely to leave at years end.
No doubt Weller is a great get for our club, I still don’t think the price was right

 

[Jirik13]

It certainly wasn't handled as well as it could have been but these things happen sometimes and, as it turned out, the club had to choose whether they wanted pick 2 or Weller. But let's not pretend like the Suns didn't try to keep pick 2, because we know they completed the West Coast trade with Weller in mind. I also remember people saying the club should just wait until the end of 2018 and pick him up when he's off contract but that defeats the whole purpose of creating a better team to convince Lynch to stay. As a recruiter, you live and die by these kinds of decisions but ultimately you can hang your hat on the fact that you tried to give the club a good chance of keeping Lynch long-term by immediately giving him more reasons to stay.

Sometimes all it takes is one key player signing on for it to snowball into multiple re-signings and I definitely think May will re-sign next year if he knows Lynch has committed long-term.

Yes, in the end I would also sacrifice pick 2 for Weller, just annoyed what happened before. I remember last year May mentioning that he would be open to contract talks when/if Tom signs. Wouldn't be great if both May and Lynch sign 5+ year contracts during bye week

 

[Mini GF]

Gee Whiz you blokes-it was a train wreck, we should have walked away and kept pick 2, develop him and get Weller in Free Agency at the end of this season. We were destroyed and smashed off the park. It was an Evans special.

 

[Matchu]

Well thought out and explained Matchu as usual, such a great contributor to our board.
The K Love deal also including another no1 pick in Anthony Bennett so that was 2 no1 picks for K Love, in the end they won a championship so you have to say it was a good trade. The Cavs future now looks bleak with Kyrie ( another no1 pick) also gone and LeBron himself likely to leave at years end.
No doubt Weller is a great get for our club, I still don’t think the price was right

Wiggins held most of the currency in that trade because Bennett was a bust. So the Cavs were probably happy to include Bennett in the trade but, like you said, it resulted in a Championship so they succeeded in their mission. The ultimate goal of every club in any professional league should be to win a Premiership/Championship ASAP and the simple fact of the matter is some teams will have it easier in terms of always being in the running for big name players. A massive club like Manchester United is always going to have an easier time trying to sign a big free agent soccer player than a smaller Premier League team like Swansea. In American sports they often talk about big and small market teams. The LA Lakers would be considered a 'big market' team and a team like Oklahoma City would be considered a 'small market' team. We know the Lakers have a long history of big free agent signings like Shaq, Abdul-Jabbar, Chamberlain etc so they are nowhere near as reliant on the draft as a team like OKC.

Excluding their Seattle history, OKC began their NBA journey in 2008 and started to build a Finals worthy team through the draft with guys like Durant (pick 2), Harden (pick 3) and Westbrook (pick 4). It took them a few years but they reached their first Finals series in 2012 with the three guys I mentioned above leading them there. Then when it looked like they were on the verge of a Championship, it all started to fall apart. Harden decided to leave first and Durant followed suit a few years later. However, Westbrook decided to stay loyal and managed to win the MVP award last season but were soundly beaten in the first round of the playoffs last year. So, what did OKC do? They decided to get Westbrook some 'help'. They were able to trade in All Stars in Paul George and Carmelo Anthony to give the team a chance of competing. Are they going to win a Championship this season? Probably not but at least they are trying and giving their superstar player reasons to be enthusiastic about staying long-term. So I think giving Lynch immediate help was an important step to take because he's at the age now where he wouldn't want to be wasting more years waiting for young players to develop. He wants to compete NOW.

The Suns would be considered a 'small market' team in the United States and will likely always be more reliant on the draft than free agency for player recruitment. It's easy to fall into a continuous loop of drafting players only to trade them a few years down the track for another draft pick, but that methodology gets you nowhere. Brisbane have fallen into that trap over the last 10 years and are now working hard to reverse the culture. The way you reverse that culture is by getting your big name players to re-sign, which is why it's so crucial for the Suns to keep Lynch this season. Then you can start attracting role players/veterans to help pick up the slack like GWS have done with guys like Deledio.

Yes, in the end I would also sacrifice pick 2 for Weller, just annoyed what happened before. I remember last year May mentioning that he would be open to contract talks when/if Tom signs. Wouldn't be great if both May and Lynch sign 5+ year contracts during bye week

I think it's important to keep your eyes on the bigger picture and not lament what could have been with unknown commodity. Lynch is the absolute number 1 priority going forward for this club and has the potential to either lead the Suns to a Premiership or set them back 5-10 years.

Gee Whiz you blokes-it was a train wreck, we should have walked away and kept pick 2, develop him and get Weller in Free Agency at the end of this season. We were destroyed and smashed off the park. It was an Evans special.

Hypothetical - pick 2 comes in and plays a few games but doesn't really do much (as most draftees do in their first season). The Suns finish last and Lynch leaves. Maybe Weller then changes his mind and decides this club is going nowhere.

Worst case scenario I know but you see where I'm going with it.

 

[Matchu]

Gee Whiz you blokes-it was a train wreck, we should have walked away and kept pick 2, develop him and get Weller in Free Agency at the end of this season. We were destroyed and smashed off the park. It was an Evans special.

Also, Weller would not have been a free agent at the end of 2018 had he stayed with Freo. He was still another four years short of reaching free agency status so, one way or another, the trade was going to have to happen if they wanted him.

 

[Mini GF]

Also, Weller would not have been a free agent at the end of 2018 had he stayed with Freo. He was still another four years short of reaching free agency status so, one way or another, the trade was going to have to happen if they wanted him.

RFA?

 

[Matchu]

RFA?

Nope. You have to have been with one club for eight seasons to become a restricted free agent. Weller had completed three seasons with Freo at the end of 2017. Unrestricted free agents are required to have spent 10 seasons with the one club.

 

[DoItForCaptBlood]

Then you can start attracting role players/veterans to help pick up the slack like GWS have done with guys like Deledio.

Not sure thats a good example to support your argument (perhaps this season!!)

My feeling is Weller is a very good pick up. Quality player, young enough for more upside. Needs to become an elite mid to justify pick 2 though imo. Feel GC could have pushed for something back ... even a round 2/3 future.

 

[Jirik13]

set them back 5-10 years.

No doubt if Lynch leaves it would set Suns back but 5-10 years seems to me way excessive. Wright is almost ready to take off and I believe he can be one of the best forwards in competition. Getting 2 1 round picks for Lynch is realistic + 2 picks we already have not bad for reload. Yes, if more players leave we got a problem. Key is that Suns finally fixed coach, managers, facilities, support staff. It will happen for Suns sooner or later. Wish stupid AFL headquarters set up Suns like this at the beginning.

 

[Jirik13]

Not sure thats a good example to support your argument (perhaps this season!!)

My feeling is Weller is a very good pick up. Quality player, young enough for more upside. Needs to become an elite mid to justify pick 2 though imo. Feel GC could have pushed for something back ... even a round 2/3 future.

Pick 41 used on Ballard was part of Weller's trade.

 

[Matchu]

Not sure thats a good example to support your argument (perhaps this season!!)

Fair call. I just used him as an example because he is a former number 1 pick who could have joined Geelong but chose GWS instead because he thought they were in the verge of a Premiership. The prospect of success draws players to certain clubs and I think that was a big factor in Deledio's decision.

My feeling is Weller is a very good pick up. Quality player, young enough for more upside. Needs to become an elite mid to justify pick 2 though imo. Feel GC could have pushed for something back ... even a round 2/3 future.

As Jirik13 pointed out, the Suns got Weller & pick 41 in return for pick 2. People like to fixate on pick 2 but the Suns ultimately got a pick back as well. Also, Freo lost a lot of their 2017 & 2018 draft picks in order to get Wilson, Weller and Matera in that trade period so it wasn't really as straightforward as some people may think.

No doubt if Lynch leaves it would set Suns back but 5-10 years seems to me way excessive. Wright is almost ready to take off and I believe he can be one of the best forwards in competition. Getting 2 1 round picks for Lynch is realistic + 2 picks we already have not bad for reload. Yes, if more players leave we got a problem. Key is that Suns finally fixed coach, managers, facilities, support staff. It will happen for Suns sooner or later. Wish stupid AFL headquarters set up Suns like this at the beginning.

Let's use Wright as the example because you rate him so highly. He is entering his fourth season in the league in 2018 yet is still in the category of "almost ready to take off". Let's say he takes off this year and has a blinder but Lynch still leaves. Suddenly Wright starts playing on the best defender every week and has very little assistance from his other key forwards. Let's also say the Suns have identified this as a potential issue and draft Lukosius in the hopes that he'll help Wright in the future. Then Lukosius takes four years to develop before he's "almost ready to take off" and suddenly it's 2023. Who knows what the Suns will look like by 2023 and if Wright will even still be wearing the red and gold.

That's a realistic timeframe that comes into play if you need to use the draft to replace Lynch.

 

[DoItForCaptBlood]

Pick 41 used on Ballard was part of Weller's trade.

I rate Weller after seeing a bit of him before being drafted, and think he has the 'potential' to become an elite mid (15- 20 Brownlow votes), and coming back to the GC with a new game plan, will see him go up a level.

That pick coming with the trade, pick 2 seems fair. Time will tell.

 

[Jirik13]

Fair call. I just used him as an example because he is a former number 1 pick who could have joined Geelong but chose GWS instead because he thought they were in the verge of a Premiership. The prospect of success draws players to certain clubs and I think that was a big factor in Deledio's decision.


As Jirik13 pointed out, the Suns got Weller & pick 41 in return for pick 2. People like to fixate on pick 2 but the Suns ultimately got a pick back as well. Also, Freo lost a lot of their 2017 & 2018 draft picks in order to get Wilson, Weller and Matera in that trade period so it wasn't really as straightforward as some people may think.


Let's use Wright as the example because you rate him so highly. He is entering his fourth season in the league in 2018 yet is still in the category of "almost ready to take off". Let's say he takes off this year and has a blinder but Lynch still leaves. Suddenly Wright starts playing on the best defender every week and has very little assistance from his other key forwards. Let's also say the Suns have identified this as a potential issue and draft Lukosius in the hopes that he'll help Wright in the future. Then Lukosius takes four years to develop before he's "almost ready to take off" and suddenly it's 2023. Who knows what the Suns will look like by 2023 and if Wright will even still be wearing the red and gold.

That's a realistic timeframe that comes into play if you need to use the draft to replace Lynch.

Yep, plenty of ifs. That's why 7 years seems to me not worth considering. Not many teams have 2 great forwards, actually probably none. I could speculate that Day actually comes back and provide decent side kick for Wright right away or we trade for decent side kick or that Ballard, Lukosius, Graham or whoever we draft in 2-3 years will be able play forward. 7 years seems way too long. I just don't believe it will be end of the world if Lynch leaves and that Suns would have to start from the scratch. Just my more optimistic view. I could be wrong

 

[Matchu]

Yep, plenty of ifs. That's why 7 years seems to me not worth considering. Not many teams have 2 great forwards, actually probably none. I could speculate that Day actually comes back and provide decent side kick for Wright right away or we trade for decent side kick or that Ballard, Lukosius, Graham or whoever we draft in 2-3 years will be able play forward. 7 years seems way too long.

The reason I stated 5-10 years is because I expect the Suns to lose a few more players if Lynch leaves. You don't want the culture of leaving to continue and it's a big blow culturally if your captain decides he's no longer committed to the cause.

 

[Jirik13]

The reason I stated 5-10 years is because I expect the Suns to lose a few more players if Lynch leaves. You don't want the culture of leaving to continue and it's a big blow culturally if your captain decides he's no longer committed to the cause.

Yep, it could be domino effect. Not much room for errors after miserable 7 years.

 

[Jirik13]

I am actually wondering if Lynch stays and Wright has a break out year how can we keep both.

 

[17er]

Pick 41 used on Ballard was part of Weller's trade.

This to me is the thing that tips the balance from ripped off to break even in the Weller Trade because it will be measured in seasons to come against the outcomes of each player in the 2017 Draft who might have ended up at the Suns. Clayton, Dew, Evans or whoever you blame/credit for the trade actually got 2 players for the #2 pick, Weller and #41 pick (Ballard). It is an afterthought to many, but makes further sense when you consider the other risky trade everyone hated as the Suns traded four 2nd round picks for West Coast's 2018 first round pick (please may they suck this season) and pick #50 in the 2017 Draft, which was subsequently used on Brayden Crossley.
By the end of the Trade/Free Agency/Draft Period, the Suns came out with a 4 Draft Picks, 4 rookies (including an AFL blooded player), 3 trade players (including Young for a bargain 4th round pick in 2018), plus an end of year battalion of extra picks in 2018 (2 x 1st round, 2 x 2nd round, 2 x 3rd round, 2 x 4th round).
Wil Powell came from the Ablett Trade, along with a 2018 2nd round pick, while we also gave the Cats pick #24 and a 2018 4th rounder. GC didn't need to pick at #24 as much as a similar pick in 2018 will be more timely or useful in a future trade. This trade was such a win-win because the little weirdo was going anyway and the AFL stepping to give Geelong the #19 pick as compensation for Motlop (who would not have made Port's best 22 in 2017) was a nice little circuit breaker.
Even if you count the Weller Trade as a losing deal, the Suns got the desired outcomes by affecting several aggressive trades throughout the period. The arguments that the Suns could have got Weller for nothing in 2019 are overblown and taken straight from the bitchy Melbourne Press. The only difference between 2017 and 2018 trade periods is the Weller would have been out of contract and nominated his destination, which as it turned our he achieved his desired outcome and the trade value difference is pure speculative.

 

[Jirik13]

This to me is the thing that tips the balance from ripped off to break even in the Weller Trade because it will be measured in seasons to come against the outcomes of each player in the 2017 Draft who might have ended up at the Suns. Clayton, Dew, Evans or whoever you blame/credit for the trade actually got 2 players for the #2 pick, Weller and #41 pick (Ballard). It is an afterthought to many, but makes further sense when you consider the other risky trade everyone hated as the Suns traded four 2nd round picks for West Coast's 2018 first round pick (please may they suck this season) and pick #50 in the 2017 Draft, which was subsequently used on Brayden Crossley.
By the end of the Trade/Free Agency/Draft Period, the Suns came out with a 4 Draft Picks, 4 rookies (including an AFL blooded player), 3 trade players (including Young for a bargain 4th round pick in 2018), plus an end of year battalion of extra picks in 2018 (2 x 1st round, 2 x 2nd round, 2 x 3rd round, 2 x 4th round).
Wil Powell came from the Ablett Trade, along with a 2018 2nd round pick, while we also gave the Cats pick #24 and a 2018 4th rounder. GC didn't need to pick at #24 as much as a similar pick in 2018 will be more timely or useful in a future trade. This trade was such a win-win because the little weirdo was going anyway and the AFL stepping to give Geelong the #19 pick as compensation for Motlop (who would not have made Port's best 22 in 2017) was a nice little circuit breaker.
Even if you count the Weller Trade as a losing deal, the Suns got the desired outcomes by affecting several aggressive trades throughout the period. The arguments that the Suns could have got Weller for nothing in 2019 are overblown and taken straight from the bitchy Melbourne Press. The only difference between 2017 and 2018 trade periods is the Weller would have been out of contract and nominated his destination, which as it turned our he achieved his desired outcome and the trade value difference is pure speculative.

It looks like only 3 picks were sent to Eagles.

"The Suns have sent the Eagles picks No.21, No.26 and No.37, and in return received the Eagles' 2018 first-round pick and this year's No.50 selection."

 

[17er]

I am actually wondering if Lynch stays and Wright has a break out year how can we keep both.

You and I are often on the same page. IMHO Wright already had his breakout year and this is year is about consolidation and setting higher targets. Lynch had a bum year in comparison to previous season, so the expectation for him is consolidation also. However, should both excel in tandem it can only be a good problem to have. If Lynch gets back to Coleman contention, but Wright is still below 2 goals a game, we hope Lynch stays. If Wright makes a big step forward and Lynch slumps, let's say byebye to big Tommy and tie up 2MP for 10 years.
It would be an awful irony if the Suns finally developed talls forward, back and in the ruck and then the League moved beyond the traditional structures to follow the paths of the Bulldogs and Tigers. You'd have to think that if the list became tall heavy and salary cap constraints became a factor, then finding the expendable forward would come down to a formula that weighed age, health, salary and length of contract. Would Sam Day be safe, given his foundation status, swingman value and talent?

 

[17er]

It looks like only 3 picks were sent to Eagles.

"The Suns have sent the Eagles picks No.21, No.26 and No.37, and in return received the Eagles' 2018 first-round pick and this year's No.50 selection."

You would think afl.com.au would have rectified such an error. Here's another quote

"The Suns acquired the Eagles' pick in a swap of selections during last year's NAB AFL Trade Period, and the move has positioned Gold Coast to have the strongest hand at this year's NAB AFL Draft with four picks in the first two rounds.

They kept their own first-round pick, and also brought in second-round selections from Essendon and Geelong. However, they did trade out their own second-round pick to the Eagles."

It is clumsy writing, but accurate. The Suns traded #21, #26, and #37 picks for the 2017 Draft AND a future 2nd rounder from 2018 for WC's first rounder and the draft pick that bought the Suns Brayden Crossley.

Here's a clearer explanation from a WA source thewest.com.au

"The Eagles gave up their 2018 first-round draft pick and this year’s third-round pick (50) in return for picks 21, 26 and 37 this year, as well as Gold Coast’s 2018 second-round selection."

Looking at it on the AFL Draft Value Index, here's the amount of risk involved.

#21 = 878 points
#26 = 729
#37 = 483
total = 2090

Take away 273 points for #50
Total = 1817

So, to calculate the last part, GC's 2nd round pick will be worth somewhere between 948 and 502 points, while WC's 1st round pick will be worth 3000 to 985 points. If we take the median value for both, WC's pick will come out to around 1500 points (#9) and the Suns' pick adds about 700 points (#26).

So, the Weagles end up with approx 2500 points value and the Suns much less with around 1800 points in that scenario. However, more optimistic estimates push the values much closer together the lower the finish for WC and the higher the finish for GC. For example, if the Suns win the Flag and the Weagles get the wooden spoon, the values flip and look more like this GC 3273 points to WC 2319 points, #1 for #36. In the end, neither side really cares about what the other side gets, rather what they get from the other side. Regardless of the Suns performance this year, the Eagles finish will have the most outcome on the Suns pick swap's ultimate value.

 

[Matchu]

It would be an awful irony if the Suns finally developed talls forward, back and in the ruck and then the League moved beyond the traditional structures to follow the paths of the Bulldogs and Tigers. You'd have to think that if the list became tall heavy and salary cap constraints became a factor, then finding the expendable forward would come down to a formula that weighed age, health, salary and length of contract. Would Sam Day be safe, given his foundation status, swingman value and talent?

I remember the Suns purposely drafted many talls at the beginning because they felt the talls held the most value at the trade table and it's hard to argue against that logic when you receive pick 13 for Tom Hickey.

It's very difficult to predict where the modern game is going. Richmond seem to run with the one key forward and have numerous goal kicking mids like Dustin Martin, which is a similar set up to Geelong with Hawkins and Dangerfield. On the flip side you have Adelaide with Walker, Jenkins and Lynch all playing forward at the same time. Also, the Bulldogs just recruited Schache to play up front with Boyd so even they are going away from the smaller line up that won them a flag.

 

[17er]

I remember the Suns purposely drafted many talls at the beginning because they felt the talls held the most value at the trade table and it's hard to argue against that logic when you receive pick 13 for Tom Hickey.

It's very difficult to predict where the modern game is going. Richmond seem to run with the one key forward and have numerous goal kicking mids like Dustin Martin, which is a similar set up to Geelong with Hawkins and Dangerfield. On the flip side you have Adelaide with Walker, Jenkins and Lynch all playing forward at the same time. Also, the Bulldogs just recruited Schache to play up front with Boyd so even they are going away from the smaller line up that won them a flag.

Good points. How do you see Port's tactics in all of this, buying a bunch of smaller forwards while offloading some talls? I see Port's list still has an impressive number of young tall forwards and Jack Watts is an upgrade on Jackson Trengrove, but how are you going to fit Steven Motlop, Lindsay Thomas, Sam Gray, Robbie Gray, Jake Neade, Jacks Watts, Charlie Dixon and Justin Westhoff in the same forward line? To say nothing of the 2 young tall forwards and 2 ruck forwards Port has recently drafted. Do you think the trades were as good as the commentators are saying?