List Mgmt. 2023 Draft/Trade/FA thread

[Scythe94]

Seems a good time to pin this:


OOC players:

• Michael Hibberd (retired)
• Deakyn Smith (delisted)
• Andy Moniz-Wakefield
• Jake Melksham (delisted, will be re-drafted as a rookie)
• Luke Dunstan (retired)
• James Jordon (signed with Sydney as a Free Agent)
• Kye Turner (delisted)

Traded out:

• James Harmes (Bulldogs)
• Brodie Grundy (Sydney)

Traded in:

• Tom Fullarton (Brisbane)
• Jack Billings (St Kilda)
• Shane McAdam (Adelaide)

Drafted:

• Caleb Windsor (Pick 7)
• Koltyn Tholstrup (Pick 13)
• Kynan Brown (Rookie)

 

[TheBoss]

If potential names were floated, you would just find some reason to complain about them notwithstanding that you have never watched them play. The argument will just go around in circles which is obviously what you want; it clear at this point that you are just here to quarrel and snipe at other posters like you always do.

Otherwise you would have a well reasoned and coherent argument in why club was better off retaining T-Mac and BBB rather than re-tooling the list to remain competitive in the medium term. Now we are on a trajectory to bottoming out once T-Mac, BBB, Gawn, Viney and May retire and Petty nicks off to SA.

Our KPD depth is an undersized Daniel Turner, AFL flameout and VFL All Star Marty Hore

27

Marty Hore

Age

28

Ht

190cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.6

4star

K

10.4

4star

HB

5.2

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

1.5

3star

MG

263.1

4star

No current season stats available

D

18.2

5star

K

12.8

5star

HB

5.4

4star

M

6.8

5star

T

1.8

4star

MG

282.2

5star

and a guy who has shown nothing in Jed Adams.

Upforward is just as grim. Fullarton and Schache are no-hopers. JVR is promising, but his lack of game sense is worrying, seems he will be the type of player that will habitually get suspended making "accidental" head contact. Jefferson is a coin flip chance of making it. I am higher on him than most. He has sticky mitts he gets his hands to the ball, just question marks on whether he will ever develop an appetite for physical contact and pack on the size he needs.

The reality is that T-Mac and BBB have zero upside and neither cut the mustard at AFL level any more. T-Mac only managed 8 games this season, and the last two were dreadful to watch. He can barely move. BBB only got on the park 7 times, but he is so out favour with the coaches I will be surprised if he runs out >5 times in 2024.

We are entering 2024 with Joel Smith at FF who may get rubbed out for a year anyway...

 

[Lord Nev]

If potential names were floated, you would just find some reason to complain about them notwithstanding that you have never watched them play. The argument will just go around in circles which is obviously what you want; it clear at this point that you are just here to quarrel and snipe at other posters like you always do.

Otherwise you would have a well reasoned and coherent argument in why club was better off retaining T-Mac and BBB rather than re-tooling the list to remain competitive in the medium term. Now we are on a trajectory to bottoming out once T-Mac, BBB, Gawn, Viney and May retire and Petty nicks off to SA.

Our KPD depth is an undersized Daniel Turner, AFL flameout and VFL All Star Marty Hore and a guy who has shown nothing in Jed Adams.

Upforward is just as grim. Fullarton and Schache are no-hopers. JVR is promising, but his lack of game sense is worrying, seems he will be the type of player that will habitually get suspended making "accidental" head contact. Jefferson is a coin flip chance of making it. I am higher on him than most. He has sticky mitts he gets his hands to the ball, just question marks on whether he will ever develop an appetite for physical contact and pack on the size he needs.

The reality is that T-Mac and BBB have zero upside and neither cut the mustard at AFL level any more. T-Mac only managed 8 games this season, and the last two were dreadful to watch. He can barely move. BBB only got on the park 7 times, but he is so out favour with the coaches I will be surprised if he runs out >5 times in 2024.

We are entering 2024 with Joel Smith at FF who may get rubbed out for a year anyway...

The club's argument is simple and obvious - They decided, given where out list is at and our chances of a flag, that we were better off not having to pay out two contracted senior players rather than take two 18 year old key forwards with later picks in a weak draft.

I'm sure you know that deep down.

If you're going to keep critiquing SPECIFIC players, then name the SPECIFIC players we would have been better off with.

Name the players NOW so that you have it on record. You simply can't go through the year saying 'see I told you we would be better off paying a million to delist to senior forwards and use those picks!'.

It's the height of ridiculousness.

The point you seem to be deliberately missing is no one is saying our key forward stocks are great. No one is saying TMac and Brown will have great years. But the reasonable posters here are saying; unless you name what the better options are then you lack conviction and logic in what you're attempting to say.

So again, name the players we should have taken with those picks and at the end of the season we'll compare them to TMac and Brown. If your point is so amazingly correct then you'll be able to rub it in the faces of everyone here. But you don't get a free pass to just say 'we should have used those picks'.

 

[TheBoss]

You are fixated on me naming prospects just so you can beat your chest in round 5 and claim a moral victory when we both know that whoever could have been drafted would likely be a bust.

I do not have specific names in mind. My contention is that drafting anyone would have been a better outcome than persisting with two broken down players that will only be playing ressies.

The argument of "keeping them, they are under contract and we are in a flag window" would only hold water if they were projected to best 22.

 

[Lord Nev]

You are fixated on me naming prospects just so you can beat your chest in round 5 and claim a moral victory when we both know that whoever could have been drafted would likely be a bust.

I do not have specific names in mind. My contention is that drafting anyone would have been a better outcome than persisting with two broken down players that will only be playing ressies.

The argument of "keeping them, they are under contract and we are in a flag window" would only hold water if they were projected to best 22.

No, no, dig up...

So, to summarize your thoughts:

Any 18 year olds would have been better for us in 2024 than TMac and Brown
But also it's likely whomever we drafted would have been a bust.
We're better off paying a million dollars to delist contracted players than have depth.
You have a flag-winning season by only playing 22 players.

Just absolutely sterling logic and reasoning mate. Top shelf.

 

[Lord Nev]

TheBoss I've done the work for you. You're welcome.

I think I've worked this out right, but those two picks you wanted to keep and use (originally 27 and 35), ended up being used on Clay Hall and Ashton Moir.

Of course, had we kept those picks we would have also not had pick 11. Going by the draft order, that means we end up with Darcy Wilson instead of Tholstrup.

*Was tricky trying to follow up the trades, but think this is correct.

So, for you to be correct:

Clay Hall needs to have a better year than Brown.
Ashton Moir needs to have a better year than TMac.
Darcy Wilson needs to be better than Tholstrup.

Let's see how 2024 pans out for you.

 

[dazzledavey36]

I will give you my picks once you have made the argument that the smart play was to run it back with T-Mac and BBB instead of rejuvenating the list.

So they were both contracted.

Wish they weren't chewing up list spots but that's not the individual's fault, that's the clubs.

You haven't answered my question still. Which 2 key position kids that were rated around that mark that you would have picked?

Yeah, there were many key forwards available. Which other clubs took so...

Yeah? Who were they?

 

[danster168]

So they were both contracted.

Wish they weren't chewing up list spots but that's not the individual's fault, that's the clubs.

You haven't answered my question still. Which 2 key position kids that were rated around that mark that you would have picked?

Yeah? Who were they?

do your research

 

[schmuttt]

do your research

Who were they dan?

 

[danster168]

Who were they dan?

who weren't they? there was a plethora

 

[stEdy]

danster has already dumped Jeffo after only 1 season.

Imagine how quickly he would back-flip on a couple of speculative second round KPPs playing on a wing at Casey

 

[danster168]

danster has already dumped Jeffo after only 1 season.

Imagine how quickly he would back-flip on a couple of speculative second round KPPs playing on a wing at Casey

I gave Jefferson 2 years. not writing him off, but concerning signs early.
Not to point fingers but you also thought Grundy would work so hopefully you've reflected on that during the off season

But honestly, how anyone thought Grundy would work is beyond me. He won't even be good at Sydney as sole ruck.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

danster has already dumped Jeffo after only 1 season.

Imagine how quickly he would back-flip on a couple of speculative second round KPPs playing on a wing at Casey

From "best KPF in the draft, I know because I go to under 18 games and you dont" to "concerning signs early"

Cant believe he did the club like this. Lamb and JT only drafted Jefferson coz they saw Dan's post on big footy saying he was the best.

 

[dazzledavey36]

who weren't they? there was a plethora

Sorry, didn't take much notice after our pick 11.

So remind me, who were they again??

 

[danster168]

Sorry, didn't take much notice after our pick 11.

So remind me, who were they again??

pretty easy to check the draft list. many key forwards that we could've taken.

 

[Bluelegs]

What even would our second round picks have been? West coast didn't get to use their second pick til 30 so we would have been further back than that.

 

[MarcMaverick]

I still think we could have drafted a KPP like Curtin/O'Sullivan/Caddy for pick 7 and still had Tholstrup in 13. With next years crop being a extremely mid-heavy one we should have picked a KPP this year an bolstered our mids next year.

We lose Harmes and Jordon and we could have rotated Rivers and Pickett in the mid next year along with Tholstrup and had a glimpse of life after Steven May

1

Steven May

Age

32

Ht

193cm

Wt

101kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.7

4star

K

10.5

4star

HB

4.2

3star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.5

3star

MG

307.3

4star

D

15.5

4star

K

12.1

5star

HB

3.4

2star

M

3.4

3star

T

0.5

1star

MG

378.4

5star

D

12.4

4star

K

8.8

4star

HB

3.6

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

1.8

4star

/Tmac/Ben Brown

50

Ben Brown

Age

31

Ht

200cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.7

3star

K

7.7

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.2

3star

G

2.2

5star

D

7.9

2star

K

6.3

3star

HB

1.6

1star

M

3.7

4star

T

0.9

2star

G

1.0

4star

D

8.0

2star

K

4.6

2star

HB

3.4

3star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.4

4star

G

1.2

4star

.

As I said I hope Windsor prove me wrong.

 

[danster168]

Lloyd Meek?!

So your solution to the Grundy dilemma is to trade him out for a worse ruckman that can't go forward or play alongside Gawn?

Ruck is overrated, it is not like we use our personnel to dominate games at stoppages. If Gawn goes down next year just chuck Joel Smith into the hitouts or something.

Totally agree. We have Gawn, Oliver, Petracca and Viney and often just breakeven at clearance. If Gawn goes down, I'm not too worried. We can chuck Joel Smith in there. He can get pretty high. Jokes aside, we could even play Verrall and we'd be fine.

 

[dazzledavey36]

pretty easy to check the draft list. many key forwards that we could've taken.

Yeah who?

 

[mrmonkey]

 

[markm106]

We really need to convince Petty to stay. With Tmac (gone back anyway) and BBB gone end of next season the depth will be tested big time if we trade Petty as the media have us believe we will. JVR will be a gun. Jefferson has some work to do so could get there. Also leave us with Schache if we keep him on and Fullarton.

Will be no doubt scouting key forwards whether through draft or trade. Drafting a decent key forward is generally done at the top end of the draft. There’s a few examples of late ones but I’d say they’re reasonably rare.

 

[dazzledavey36]

You are fixated on me naming prospects just so you can beat your chest in round 5 and claim a moral victory when we both know that whoever could have been drafted would likely be a bust.

I do not have specific names in mind. My contention is that drafting anyone would have been a better outcome than persisting with two broken down players that will only be playing ressies.

The argument of "keeping them, they are under contract and we are in a flag window" would only hold water if they were projected to best 22.

Crock argument

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

View attachment 1878108

Love me some Seinfeld references. Very good monk

 

[mrmonkey]

Love me some Seinfeld references. Very good monk

Yep, I can't resist a good opportunity to throw in seinfeld or the simpsons reference.

 

[danster168]

If potential names were floated, you would just find some reason to complain about them notwithstanding that you have never watched them play. The argument will just go around in circles which is obviously what you want; it clear at this point that you are just here to quarrel and snipe at other posters like you always do.

Otherwise you would have a well reasoned and coherent argument in why club was better off retaining T-Mac and BBB rather than re-tooling the list to remain competitive in the medium term. Now we are on a trajectory to bottoming out once T-Mac, BBB, Gawn, Viney and May retire and Petty nicks off to SA.

Our KPD depth is an undersized Daniel Turner, AFL flameout and VFL All Star Marty Hore and a guy who has shown nothing in Jed Adams.

Upforward is just as grim. Fullarton and Schache are no-hopers. JVR is promising, but his lack of game sense is worrying, seems he will be the type of player that will habitually get suspended making "accidental" head contact. Jefferson is a coin flip chance of making it. I am higher on him than most. He has sticky mitts he gets his hands to the ball, just question marks on whether he will ever develop an appetite for physical contact and pack on the size he needs.

The reality is that T-Mac and BBB have zero upside and neither cut the mustard at AFL level any more. T-Mac only managed 8 games this season, and the last two were dreadful to watch. He can barely move. BBB only got on the park 7 times, but he is so out favour with the coaches I will be surprised if he runs out >5 times in 2024.

We are entering 2024 with Joel Smith at FF who may get rubbed out for a year anyway...

Spot on about JVR's lack of game sense. Glad that someone else can call it out without being called a 'troll'. A term some posters love to float around because they don't see what others see.
Unbelievable that it needs explaining that we should've rolled the dice on key position draftees considering our obvious list downfalls.

I'll simplify it for others, there's a 100% chance that Ben Brown and TMac are spuds. There's a greater chance that the recruiting team could've picked a key position talent and developed them into a best 22 player.

 

[danster168]

Then tell us who.

This is some pissweak posting otherwise.

If you're not prepared to have your definitive statements measured then don't bother to make them.

• Archer Reid
• Logan Morris (191cm but plays taller. Could grow to Curnow height)
• Mitchell Edwards: 206cm ruck. Would’ve been nice to have on the list wouldn’t you say.
• Ollie Murphy 200cm key defender.
• Liam Fawcett: Key forward.
• Lachlan Smith: ruckman
• Zane Zakostelsky: 196cm key forward
• Patrick Snell: key defender.

Now, all of these guys were considered to be draft able talent by their respective clubs. There are many interstate players here. If I had at my disposal a team of full-time recruiters, like Jason Taylor does, access to interview all of the kids, psych testing etc. then I'm sure I could pick 2 of the above kids. If any one of the kids above make it as a regular best 22 player then its egg on the faces of the Mfc recruiting team. Even if we pick 2 and they don't work out, it's still the right play. Because we know 1 thing, Ben Brown and Tom Mcdonald are simply too bad to contribute in any way beyond Casey. So what did we have to lose? Nothing!