Ultimate Glory 2023 Trade speculation and Shinbeggars discussion

[Brant]

He’ll be lucky to be on our list in 2 years


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So will 40+ other players.

Luckiest players in the country!

 

[theiaofseed]

Because it's horrendous

Brockman is gone and has only ever shown flashes, might never be the player we hoped... which doesn't matter anyway since his gone.
DBG is skating thin ice of being a future delist.
Next year we could easily play finals.

Turning those 3 things into a guaranteed 200 game player, 50 goal a year KPF isn't horrible.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Steak knives is in reverse.

Don't get sucked into his draft pick. That was Silvagni trying to be cute and making a bid and Freo biting. Was a likely mid-20's pick.

On performance Brocky has shown far far more, Henry has shown only over last 1-2 months. No idea of his consistency or drive.

On the Henry post on Draft board, I proposed

Brocky for Henry + 52+ F4

We should be able to then swap either our F4 or Freo F4 for Suns late picks for McCabe points.

Bummer is we will have to delist a bunch and re-list.

Henry has played 14 games this season and is averaging 20.1 touches and 4.9 marks.

Brockman does look like a talent, but in terms of his actual performances this season he's played 15 games for 11.1 touches, and kicked under a goal a game.

Brockman didn't play last season. In his first season he played 11 games and averaged very similar numbers (8.9 touches and less than a goal a game).

To say he's shown "far far" more is an overstatement. Both have shown glimpses of the classy players they could become.

Anyway, Freo wouldn't do that trade.

 

[Alite]

The Hawks last 2 weeks have been awesome for a team with such comparative little on-field experience. I have loved every minute of it and know that there is no substitute for a winning game style and a winning culture within the group.

The consequence of the Hawks looking to have such potential for next year is that no team is likely to bet on the Hawks finishing any lower than 10th. This means that our 2024 1st round selection has lost value. At best other teams will value our 2024 1st at pick 8. Some may think our 2024 1st pick will be higher.

I have been trying to find a way that the Hawks could get GC’s pick 4(5) and cannot see it.
Has anyone come up with a good trade?

It seems to me that without things changing much in terms of our current draft hand, Mark McKenzie and his team should play with a strait bat and select the best available at pick 3(4) and take Will McCabe whenever he is bid on (15 to 20).

Is that about right?

 

[Alite]

The Hawks last 2 weeks have been awesome for a team with such comparative little on-field experience. I have loved every minute of it and know that there is no substitute for a winning game style and a winning culture within the group.

The consequence of the Hawks looking to have such potential for next year is that no team is likely to bet on the Hawks finishing any lower than 10th. This means that our 2024 1st round selection has lost value. At best other teams will value our 2024 1st at pick 8. Some may think our 2024 1st pick will be higher.

I have been trying to find a way that the Hawks could get GC’s pick 4(5) and cannot see it.
Has anyone come up with a good trade?

It seems to me that without things changing much in terms of our current draft hand, Mark McKenzie and his team should play with a strait bat and select the best available at pick 3(4) and take Will McCabe whenever he is bid on (15 to 20).

Is that about right?

The only question I had left is whether we should offer West Coast pick 3(4) and our 2024 1st (~pick 8) for Harley Reid.
West Coast will likely get other offers of a similar level. IMO, if they think they can get Curtin at 3(4) this year then they should take the deal I just preposed.

But I don’t think I’d offer the deal above. Harley will be a brilliant player, of that I have no doubt, but I think I’d prefer Watson / Duusma in 2023 with one of the best from the class of 2024.

The current Hawks are a band of lower level draftees that have been developed well and are being coached brilliantly.

As Kane Cornes said 3 months ago, “who are the Hawks marquis player… who is the standout”. If the answer is “no-one” then that fills me with confidence. A player that a team is built around, as some say about Harley, is a team that will fail.

Give me 22 players of similar talent and 100% commitment over a marque player.

 

[RX Hawk]

It actually would be very exciting if we kept our first round pick of 2023 for Duursma or Watson.

An collected McCabe with late draft picks.

Traded in king with our future 2024 1st round draft pick.

snared McKay and Gresham via F/A backing our system and Mitchell to get the best from them.

If Serong came on at CHB, even just breaking even allowing the class of Sicily, Scrimshaw and Jiath to play their game.

8 position on the ladder would be a reasonable and get table target .

If all these happen it would be dream come true and I bet we will play finals footy by 2025.

 

[Rushed_Behind]

36%

Cursed.

 

[MasterSamurai]

You know what, losing our chance to get pick 1 has slid our attention away from Harley big time! Though I've said before I prefer two top ten pix this draft , I would NOT be against throwing our hand at Harley. The ceiling is huge!

 

[Alite]

You know what, losing our chance to get pick 1 has slid our attention away from Harley big time! Though I've said before I prefer two top ten pix this draft , I would NOT be against throwing our hand at Harley. The ceiling is huge!

IMO Mark McKenzie cannot get this 2023 draft period wrong. Every option he has in front of him is good.
An “over-draft spend“ on Harley I’d be happy with as MasterSamurai says. Our drafting group certainly got what others considered an “over-spend” on Weddle perfect. No AFL watcher would now say that Weddle, after what he has shown to be and what he could become, was not worth the draft price. MM got that 100% right.

Or MM can play a straight-bat by selecting Watson / Duursma without any trades. I’d be 100% happy with that as well.

IMO he cannot make a bad move. All roads lead to a good trade period... the key being McCabe actually selecting the Hawks.

My only question is, can MM and his group, find an even better result? I don’t see it. Every wild trade swap I do ends in..the Hawks add no value in the trade. We will see.

 

[Alite]

There is one player on likely good money that is not regularly getting a game at AFL level that I liked a lot in his draft year but is not getting a regular game.

Elijah Hollands was for me a standout player in his draft year. He tore his ACL before being drafted and yet still went at pick 7 in 2020.

If the Suns want a salary dump (he must be on reasonable money) then I’d take Elijah in a second.

He is contracted to the end of 2024.

 

[The Chad and I]

I doubt King happens but only way it does if we trade up to pick 1 to Eagles with pick 3, Brockman and DGB (don’t shoot me). We then trade pick 1 and future first to Suns and get pick 5 back. They get Harley Reid and Walter and we get King and player with pick 5. Maybe we add later pick

Imagine getting your hands on pick 1, then overlooking a generational talent in Harley Reid bc you Ben King For Eva!
Harley Reid will make us the kind of team every Free Agent KPF dreams of moving to.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

I like it, make it happen…. Dew to Hawthorn under Mitchell.

Dew and Simpson to the hawks

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Why not?

You're giving up 2 first round picks for pick 5

 

[peetoo]

The only question I had left is whether we should offer West Coast pick 3(4) and our 2024 1st (~pick 8) for Harley Reid.
West Coast will likely get other offers of a similar level. IMO, if they think they can get Curtin at 3(4) this year then they should take the deal I just preposed.

But I don’t think I’d offer the deal above. Harley will be a brilliant player, of that I have no doubt, but I think I’d prefer Watson / Duusma in 2023 with one of the best from the class of 2024.

The current Hawks are a band of lower level draftees that have been developed well and are being coached brilliantly.

As Kane Cornes said 3 months ago, “who are the Hawks marquis player… who is the standout”. If the answer is “no-one” then that fills me with confidence. A player that a team is built around, as some say about Harley, is a team that will fail.

Give me 22 players of similar talent and 100% commitment over a marque player.

Or both?

 

[Colloquy]

Hopefully this year what ever we do with our top pick we pick up a player that can change the game for us like Franklin, Rioli was that player in 5 mins that can take the game from a path to loss to path to a win. I feel we don’t really have these players in this rebuild.

 

[tl92]

You're giving up 2 first round picks for pick 5

And King..:

 

[Dewnior]

Brockman is gone and has only ever shown flashes, might never be the player we hoped... which doesn't matter anyway since his gone.
DBG is skating thin ice of being a future delist.
Next year we could easily play finals.

Turning those 3 things into a guaranteed 200 game player, 50 goal a year KPF isn't horrible.

Guaranteed?

 

[Colloquy]

And King..:

God I hope not

 

[Alite]

Or both?

I don’t see HOW we get both. There is no trade scenario that I can see that gets us 2 picks in the top 12, let alone the top 6.

 

[The Chad and I]

As Kane Cornes said 3 months ago, “who are the Hawks marquis player… who is the standout”. If the answer is “no-one” then that fills me with confidence. A player that a team is built around, as some say about Harley, is a team that will fail.

Give me 22 players of similar talent and 100% commitment over a marque player.

The three-peat was built around Luke Hodge, despite the overall greatness of those teams, make no mistake about it.
If Reid is so good as to stand above Newcombe, Day et al as the player the team is built around, then we simply have to do everything we can to get him.

 

[hardway]

Perhaps the A grader RnL alluded to could be as simple as Gresham. When up and running he is a gun half forward. The confident bit could be the free hit as a free agent.

Not the highest of A graders but would definitely fill a need next season.

 

[Alite]

Hopefully this year what ever we do with our top pick we pick up a player that can change the game for us like Franklin, Rioli was that player in 5 mins that can take the game from a path to loss to path to a win. I feel we don’t really have these players in this rebuild.

in general: we disagree greatly. Franklin was not part of our best team. He was perfectly replaced with Gunston in a great team.

Rioli is impossible to replace, though Poppy at his best and Charlie Cameron come close.

 

[FB19]

I don’t see HOW we get both. There is no trade scenario that I can see that gets us 2 picks in the top 12, let alone the top 6.

I’m unfortunately coming to that view too. Our f1 as you said is damaged after last 2 weeks performances no doubt but the flip side is it helps with FA / trades and of course culture and the excitement for 2024.
The Haynes dump seems less likely for a high pick. If it was on North could trump us anyway except if Haynes felt a flag might be an option with us. Suns first our only chance is they get enough 2023 points so we can make them a future offer that trumps everyone else. But with a damaged first it would probably cost more.
I think gws first would be the only top 10 pick that might get traded for a future pick Would we do that which could push to 12/13 for what could be a top 5 pick next year? I doubt it. Warming to Gresham as a FA and Ryan for brockman. Add Watson or Duursma with McCabe and maybe a slider and Tew Jiath and I think that’s a really good result.

 

[Alite]

I’m unfortunately coming to that view too. Our f1 as you said is damaged after last 2 weeks performances no doubt but the flip side is it helps with FA / trades and of course culture and the excitement for 2024.
The Haynes dump seems less likely for a high pick. If it was on North could trump us anyway except if Haynes felt a flag might be an option with us. Suns first our only chance is they get enough 2023 points so we can make them a future offer that trumps everyone else. But with a damaged first it would probably cost more.
I think gws first would be the only top 10 pick that might get traded for a future pick Would we do that which could push to 12/13 for what could be a top 5 pick next year? I doubt it. Warming to Gresham as a FA and Ryan for brockman. Add Watson or Duursma with McCabe and maybe a slider and Tew Jiath and I think that’s a really good result.

A Huge unpack on that statement… but I can say that I agreed with much and don’t like bits.

 

[tl92]

I don’t see HOW we get both. There is no trade scenario that I can see that gets us 2 picks in the top 12, let alone the top 6.

Our future 1st for gold coasts pick 4?