That's a big IF. Why don't you tell me firstly how many of these interstate supporters exist and then tell me how many would switch allegiances...
Vital points I would think in determining viability.
3rd West Australian team VS long term viability of poorer VIC Teams
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Vital points I would think in determining viability.
Not just interstate but people from O/S who have migrated here, thousands upon thousands up here in the Northern suburbs, and many of them have kids playing at local clubs.
A new club gives them access to the game of Australian football at the highest level, their kids will drag them, ATM they don't have access, anyway i am repeating myself, will stop here.
When the Dockers came in, everyone said it would not work, not enough fans and money, since then the population, economy has exploded, it is time to look at a 3rd team.
telsor
Hall of Famer
I imagine if this was being looked at, some kind of survey would be done to see if there was a potential supporter base, but one or both of WAFC & AFL wont even do that.
telsor
Hall of Famer
Nah, because they can only expand so fast, and the AFL wanted 2 teams per market first.
WAFC probably doesn't want to eat into WAFL media and/or hurt their cash cows.
Yep, it is a risk, however the Dockers are repaying in spades ATM, and i remember people saying they will forever be a burden on WA football, a new team will ( IMO) grow the market.
Having said that, i dont, and probably no-one else posting on here has access to the relevant data, but from my observances a 3rd team would work.
Really there's no evidence to support it, just people's feelings.
Might be one where you need to get a bid website up - get people to sign up intent to buy a membership, paying a nominal fee ($10 or something) to ensure they're serious. That would get you a discount of a foundation membership of course.
If you got a site up and running, good evidence of a membership base, and some state government support, then it would be time to have a serious look at it.
If the govt do ever shell out for this stadium I'm sure they'd be happy for another 11 games there every year.
But it needs somebody to drive it - who is actually asking for this?
Might be one where you need to get a bid website up - get people to sign up intent to buy a membership, paying a nominal fee ($10 or something) to ensure they're serious. That would get you a discount of a foundation membership of course.
If you got a site up and running, good evidence of a membership base, and some state government support, then it would be time to have a serious look at it.
If the govt do ever shell out for this stadium I'm sure they'd be happy for another 11 games there every year.
But it needs somebody to drive it - who is actually asking for this?
telsor
Hall of Famer
I think it would be good for the fans, just not for the status quo, so the vested interests in WA would be against it.
It would need to be driven by some clout.
Packer? New stadium in his backyard, I'm sure he'd be happy with 11 home games a year to drive people through. Crown on the jumper, a social club/sports bar in his joint.
WAFC are happy, they get a big return on the current clubs, Eagles will be happy with their waiting list and $40 million in the bank, Dockers and their waiting list are happy.
Basically they have the market by the short and curlies.
WA needs a far more competetive football market, a 3rd team would possibly allow more competitive membership prices, ATM WA memberships are far and away the most pricey in Australia, the new stadium will not alleveiate that, actually may give them a reason to jack the price up again.
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* Huge population growth, thats does not look like stopping
* Huge economic growth, that does not look like stopping
* Waiting lists for memberships at WCE and this year at the Dockers.
* Very strong grass roots particiaption.
* Strong WA representation at national draft year in year out.
* Strong economy means strong sponsorship.
Melbourne currently has 1 team per 444k, supplemented by geelong
Perth has one team per 900k
Now we find out that per capita WA has 25 seats available per 1000 people whilst Melbourne has 85.
Thousands upon thousands of WA families have no chance to buy AFL club memberships, yet grass roots wise WA would be as strong as Vic and SA, in fact from memory WA is frationally stronger per capita for support for Aussie rules than Vic.
* Huge economic growth, that does not look like stopping
* Waiting lists for memberships at WCE and this year at the Dockers.
* Very strong grass roots particiaption.
* Strong WA representation at national draft year in year out.
* Strong economy means strong sponsorship.
Melbourne currently has 1 team per 444k, supplemented by geelong
Perth has one team per 900k
Now we find out that per capita WA has 25 seats available per 1000 people whilst Melbourne has 85.
Thousands upon thousands of WA families have no chance to buy AFL club memberships, yet grass roots wise WA would be as strong as Vic and SA, in fact from memory WA is frationally stronger per capita for support for Aussie rules than Vic.
No-one's actually disputing the numbers. What's up for discussion is how this club is going to get bums on seats.
The closest thing I can think of in Australian sport is the ARL introducing a 2nd Brisbane team in when the Broncos were getting huge crowds. All the numbers would have said what a great idea it was. Population (both numbers and growth), number of available seats, economy going well. The problem being they gave it a generic name - "South Queensland", the club had no identity and at best a loose geographical affiliation. It had a different home ground, but that didn't save it. The result was a club that got a lot of people along for a look, but most didn't come back. At least not regularly. 21k to their first game, the numbers dwindled and their highest crowd in their 2nd year was just 15k (excluding the game against the Broncos). Their average in their final year was 7k. I know Super League didn't help, but there was more to it than that.
My point is that you can't just create a club and expect people to just immediately have the passion. You need to create an identity and have a basic plan as to where your supporters are going to come from. That needs to come first.
The closest thing I can think of in Australian sport is the ARL introducing a 2nd Brisbane team in when the Broncos were getting huge crowds. All the numbers would have said what a great idea it was. Population (both numbers and growth), number of available seats, economy going well. The problem being they gave it a generic name - "South Queensland", the club had no identity and at best a loose geographical affiliation. It had a different home ground, but that didn't save it. The result was a club that got a lot of people along for a look, but most didn't come back. At least not regularly. 21k to their first game, the numbers dwindled and their highest crowd in their 2nd year was just 15k (excluding the game against the Broncos). Their average in their final year was 7k. I know Super League didn't help, but there was more to it than that.
My point is that you can't just create a club and expect people to just immediately have the passion. You need to create an identity and have a basic plan as to where your supporters are going to come from. That needs to come first.
The influx of new arrivals into Perth is overrated. Believe me, having lived on the Gold Coast, Brisbane and the Ipswich corridor, a massive influx of new people does not equate to a proportional increase in the popularity of such things as sporting teams...people move for all sorts of reasons, like cheaper houses and the surf, but backing sport is way down the list...
Interstaters from footy states already follow teams, interstaters from the north hate the AFL, and neither will willingly jump en masse into the arms of the incumbent WA clubs, let alone a third or fourth one. A new team will be the poor relation to the other two for years, and you'd think a new team from WA wouldn't get GWS concessions to start one up. If the Eagles are the Collingwood of WA, then this new team will be Melbourne for a long time...
In WA, you have a short term problem which exists, and another which doesn't yet. In the short term, existing members can't get into a game. In the long term, all forecasts seem to indicate that WA could be a city of 5 million people in 35 years, but it will be that long or even longer until it's a city of that many AFL fans - big difference...
For now, all efforts should be concentrated on building this stadium. You need an extra 20-30k of seats every week, better facilities and a better location. Why is anything else even relevant, including the literal content of this stupid thread title...?
Interstaters from footy states already follow teams, interstaters from the north hate the AFL, and neither will willingly jump en masse into the arms of the incumbent WA clubs, let alone a third or fourth one. A new team will be the poor relation to the other two for years, and you'd think a new team from WA wouldn't get GWS concessions to start one up. If the Eagles are the Collingwood of WA, then this new team will be Melbourne for a long time...
In WA, you have a short term problem which exists, and another which doesn't yet. In the short term, existing members can't get into a game. In the long term, all forecasts seem to indicate that WA could be a city of 5 million people in 35 years, but it will be that long or even longer until it's a city of that many AFL fans - big difference...
For now, all efforts should be concentrated on building this stadium. You need an extra 20-30k of seats every week, better facilities and a better location. Why is anything else even relevant, including the literal content of this stupid thread title...?
A new team wont convert one 'rusted on' fan.
Understand where you are coming from but disagree - the AFL competition has no need for another poorly supported, financially poor, club
The WAFL is no stronger than the SANFL or the VFL - the reason players are in these comps is they are not good enough for AFL footy - current AFL lists have players on them not good enough to get a gig in the main game.
The reason that the Suns & Giants struggled is not a lack of local talent, that is plain ordinary wrong - both sides chose to pick up the games best kids & knew they would struggle early days but be competitive after a couple of years & that is proving correct, so much so that the whinging has already started.
I watched the WAFL v VFL match last year, enjoyed it but I cant remember one of the guys involved being picked up for AFL 2014. Why, because they were the best 2nd tier players in two traditional states & considered by the AFL recruiting industry as not good enough. Hopefully I'm wrong, at least a couple got a gig.
Fine argument for widgets, but this lot has passion involved - an argument more suited to A-League. Newcomers to Aus tend to have soccer in common.
I disagree, having been involved with a junior club in the Northern Suburbs of Perth that has around 800/900 junior registrations, i can state that quite a high % of those kids are either born O/S ( usually UK, Ireland or South Africa) or an even higher % of there parents were.
Means little. Soccer and netball s**t all over the AFL when it comes to junior participation. Less than half of the Australian population is anglo-saxon, but the vast majority of AFL footballers are. Aborigines also represent a massively distorted demographic. The numbers of supporters will rise, sure, because the population will, but it won't be proportionally upbeat. 70 years of post WW2 immigration hasn't made anywhere near the same impact on AFL background culture as it has on the general Australian one - otherwise you would see Vietnamese, Chinese, Pacific Islander and South African players regularly, instead of making up the numbers on one hand...same thing with supporters who pay money to prop up AFL teams and but season tickets - look around the crowd next time, to see a cross section of humanity that would look more like 1970's White Australia Perth than 2014 multicultural Perth...same story everywhere...
You would need to reinforce the current strongbeds of support, and patiently chip away at the newbies, who will take ages. You want to appeal to everyone in the long run, of course, but some will pay the money quicker than others. You're just better off making sure the current fans are looked after in WA, with room to add some more who will get what they pay for instead of being stuck on a waiting list (I've always dreamed of being an MCG member, but what's the f###ing point!), and they'll bring their mates. A new team presently is too far in the direction of opening up opportunities - if you barrack for the Eagles or the Dockers, again sure, there'll be people who say "woo-hoo, season tickets", but there won't be a mass migration to the extent you'd need for the new team to call itself anything better than North Melbourne (again, stupid thread title)...you'd have a minnow for years...
You would need to reinforce the current strongbeds of support, and patiently chip away at the newbies, who will take ages. You want to appeal to everyone in the long run, of course, but some will pay the money quicker than others. You're just better off making sure the current fans are looked after in WA, with room to add some more who will get what they pay for instead of being stuck on a waiting list (I've always dreamed of being an MCG member, but what's the f###ing point!), and they'll bring their mates. A new team presently is too far in the direction of opening up opportunities - if you barrack for the Eagles or the Dockers, again sure, there'll be people who say "woo-hoo, season tickets", but there won't be a mass migration to the extent you'd need for the new team to call itself anything better than North Melbourne (again, stupid thread title)...you'd have a minnow for years...
telsor
Hall of Famer
'Vested' interests in other states are against a lot of other things in AFL football
Vested interests are for and against a great many things in many areas. It's called life.
Nothing new , i am sorry, the new stadium will not alleviate a waiting list, but one thing you can guarantee is the WAFC, the Eagles and even Dockers will collude to keep waiting lists, and memberships prices high ( highest in Australia ).
The WAFC could at any time start the ball rolling and get the community talking about the possibility of a thrird team to alleveiate this nonsense, but why should they !!.
telsor
Hall of Famer
WA actually proactively do something? Yeah, that'll happen. Far easier to wait for something to be done for them and complain about the results.
The AFL have been proactive in developing the game ( & player safety for that matter). but keep getting chopped up by the selfish vested interests of died in the wool old club supporters. Such people are more concerned with their own nest than the health & growth of the game across the country.
Hopefully the AFL will always look after the future of the game as a whole, above & beyond old world self interest.
WA3 & Tas1
telsor
Hall of Famer
The AFL have been proactive in developing the game ( & player safety for that matter). but keep getting chopped up by the selfish vested interests of died in the wool old club supporters. Such people are more concerned with their own nest than the health & growth of the game across the country.
Hopefully the AFL will always look after the future of the game as a whole, above & beyond old world self interest.
WA3 & Tas1
'old world self interest'?
Well, considering Anglo settlement in Tassie is older than anywhere bar Sydney, I can only assume you're talking avoiding being suckered by Tassie interests here.
