Jimmy Toumpas - traded to Port Adelaide

[Gysberts2Bate]

I reckon stretch is showing more already in the role toumpas was drafted to excel at

He has the advantage of not having being lynched after his first game and coming into his first season injury-free. Toumpas will probably never make it, but it's silly to ignore the factors (quality of the side he was playing for, disastrous coach, etc) affecting him that don't apply to players coming in now.

I'd just like to see him play three or four consecutive games in the midfield.

 

[doggies ftw]

I agree anyone could do it but no one does, maybe Watts does sometimes but seriously no one else on this runs into space, we are always going up for contested marks or player standing stagnate allowing defenders to come over the top.

Look I've probably overstayed my welcome here but anyway could it be that thats more to do with the way you are instructed to play. You look at our team for example, over the last 3 years we played some of the most boring, stagnate, slow moving footy you'll see, it was pretty much win the ball, kick down the line if you happened to win the ball again you'd kick down the line again until you finally got it forward and by that time the forward line was clogged and you couldn't score anyway. Every single person on the dogs board was harping on about how we needed faster players and players who used the ball better. This year the personal hasn't even changed that drastically yet now were seen as one of the quickest teams because we play on and move the footy quickly. Everyone including our key defenders are instructed to move into space and attacking positions so when it pays off everyone looks like usain bolt streaming down the wing because thats just the way the whole team plays if that makes sense.

 

[DemonZombie_001]

Each player needs to bring something I feel.

Watts and his ball passing for example, would Watts still be on the list if he could not pass like he does (not saying he is perfect) ?

What does Toumpas bring, I have only seen a few of his games this year (though he has played 9), and it certainly was not his kicking.

He may get by this year, he is only 21 and only played 27 games, considering there could be a few players ahead of them that are more likely to leave. But he has had 3 years to fix his kicking.

Like someone said before it does seem a waste to delist such a high draft pick, and like Gysberts2Bate has said I would also like to see him play out the season.

If he is fit and not being selected that might be a bad omen. I think Harmes and Stretch are a wake up call if he ever needed one.

 

[DemonZombie_001]

Look I've probably overstayed my welcome here but anyway could it be that thats more to do with the way you are instructed to play. You look at our team for example, over the last 3 years we played some of the most boring, stagnate, slow moving footy you'll see, it was pretty much win the ball, kick down the line if you happened to win the ball again you'd kick down the line again until you finally got it forward and by that time the forward line was clogged and you couldn't score anyway. Every single person on the dogs board was harping on about how we needed faster players and players who used the ball better. This year the personal hasn't even changed that drastically yet now were seen as one of the quickest teams because we play on and move the footy quickly. Everyone including our key defenders are instructed to move into space and attacking positions so when it pays off everyone looks like usain bolt streaming down the wing because thats just the way the whole team plays if that makes sense.

The biggest thing about the Bulldogs, and since having AFL Live Pass I get to watch them now as well. Is the insane amount of players in that team that can pass almost to the quality of Murphy. To play the style I am seeing, in my opinion, you got to have a few harry potters with the ball.

We don't (yet). 2016 might tell a different story.

 

[doggies ftw]

The biggest thing about the Bulldogs, and since having AFL Live Pass I get to watch them now as well. Is the insane amount of players in that team that can pass almost to the quality of Murphy. To play the style I am seeing, in my opinion, you got to have a few harry potters with the ball.

We don't (yet). 2016 might tell a different story.

Thats sort of what I'm getting at though. If you read through the dogs board last year you would not find a single opinion that mirrors what you've just said. Our footskills were deplorable last year and all we (dogs supporters) wanted to bring in was a bit of speed and people who could use the ball. Besides a handful of players even our best players were poor by foot, yet we lost 3 of our best users and 2 of our quickest players in Griffen, Coons and Higgins and improved out of sight in those two parts of the game. I think a huge amount of that has to do with gamestyle.

 

[mrmonkey]

Gerard Healy described the bulldogs style as the 3 second rule. Sometimes you don't necessarily quick players to be a quick team. You just need wave of support to move the ball quickly.

 

[doggies ftw]

Gerard Healy described the bulldogs style as the 3 second rule. Sometimes you don't necessarily quick players to be a quick team. You just need wave of support to move the ball quickly.

Spot on, you look at that goal Jarrad Grant kicked in the first quarter after Stringers run down the wing against you guys last week, pretty much every player in that chain fumbled or stuffed something up at one stage yet there was always someone else there to mop up and we pretty much managed to fumble the ball the whole way down the field and score, all I'm getting at is I just don't think its your personal thats the problem just the way you're instructed to play. Anyway I'll * off back to my own board now, cheers for the discussion on the toump. I'm genuinely surprised he hasn't at least came on a little bit, to this date I haven't liked a player as much as I did Toumpas in his u18 year, he was incredible.

 

[Topkent]

I agree anyone could do it but no one does, maybe Watts does sometimes but seriously no one else on this runs into space, we are always going up for contested marks or player standing stagnate allowing defenders to come over the top.

Then why don't they do it on gameday? Toump has his issues but at least he works into space, the other crabs we have don't do that.

Kent mother*ers

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

but it'd be dumb to delist a pick 4 after only three years.

No, dumb was drafting him with pick 4. Keeping him because he was a pick 4 is keeping for the completely wrong reasons.

inb4 everyone said he was a top 4 pick.

He plays like a pick 74, thats the only thing we need to know, offers us completely nothing.

Id do a trade of top 4 bust for top 4 bust, John Butcher from Port, who despite not even knowing how to kick a football has far more currency than Toumpas, Sad face. We would have to throw something else in but it wouldn't be anyone we would miss. Butcher would be an upgrade on Dawes because he can mark and would cost us 250k less per year. Give the premiership winning chf to Port who are in semi 'premiership mode' and he might look like a very average player again with some talent around him just like he was at Collingwood rather than the uber dud he is here at Melbourne. Its nothing more than a hail mary, but at least it would be a cash saving exercise if nothing else.

The real question is, who is the steak knives in this deal? Toumpas or Dawes?

 

[Jack London]

No, dumb was drafting with pick 4. Keeping him because he was a pick 4 is keeping for the completely wrong reasons.

inb4 everyone said he was a top 4 pick.

He plays like a pick 74, thats the only thing we need to know, offers us completely nothing.

Id do a a trade of top 4 bust for top 4 bust, John Butcher from Port, who despite not even knowing how to kick a football has far more currency than Toumpas, Sad face. We would have to throw something else in but it wouldn't be anyone we would miss. Butcher would be an upgrade on Dawes because he can mark and would cost us 250k less per year. Give the premiership winning chf to Port who are in semi 'premiership mode' and he might look like a very average player again with some talent around him just like he was at Collingwood rather than the uber dud he is here at Melbourne. Its nothing more than a hail mary, but at least it would be a cash saving exercise if nothing else.

The real question is, who is the steak knives in this deal? Toumpas or Dawes?

You've never seen Butcher play, have you?

He's ******* hopeless and has been in the system three years longer.

You can't claim to judge Toumpas fairly and argue that ******* Butcher has more currency/is better than him.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

You've never seen Butcher play, have you?

He's ******* hopeless and has been in the system three years longer.

You can't claim to judge Toumpas fairly and argue that ******* Butcher has more currency/is better than him.

Ive seen both play, tall forwards always have more currency, take 500k Dawes for example.

Yes I'm well aware of Butcher's short falls, you can read yes? I did say he can't even kick a football incase you missed it, yet, he's still worth more than Toumpas, i know, it hurts me too.

As you were, I'm right you're wrong. Butcher>Toumpas

 

[Jack London]

Ive seen both play, tall forwards always have more currency, take 500k Dawes for example.

Yes I'm well aware of Butcher's short falls, you can read yes? I did say he can't even kick a football incase you missed it, yet, he's still worth more than Toumpas, i know, it hurts me too.

As you were, I'm right you're wrong. Butcher>Toumpas

 

[Bluelegs]

No, dumb was drafting with pick 4. Keeping him because he was a pick 4 is keeping for the completely wrong reasons.

inb4 everyone said he was a top 4 pick.

He plays like a pick 74, thats the only thing we need to know, offers us completely nothing.

Id do a a trade of top 4 bust for top 4 bust, John Butcher from Port, who despite not even knowing how to kick a football has far more currency than Toumpas, Sad face. We would have to throw something else in but it wouldn't be anyone we would miss. Butcher would be an upgrade on Dawes because he can mark and would cost us 250k less per year. Give the premiership winning chf to Port who are in semi 'premiership mode' and he might look like a very average player again with some talent around him just like he was at Collingwood rather than the uber dud he is here at Melbourne. Its nothing more than a hail mary, but at least it would be a cash saving exercise if nothing else.

The real question is, who is the steak knives in this deal? Toumpas or Dawes?

Agree 100%. Cut our losses with Toump. He was broken after we lost by 148 to Essendon and has never recovered. He has no pace, can't win the ball, is only an above average kick at best but goes to woeful under the very idea of pressure. If someone can point out his upside then I'm open to keeping him but I simply don't see any.

 

[dee_mac]

Agree 100%. Cut our losses with Toump. He was broken after we lost by 148 to Essendon and has never recovered. He has no pace, can't win the ball, is only an above average kick at best but goes to woeful under the very idea of pressure. If someone can point out his upside then I'm open to keeping him but I simply don't see any.

This is it for me. Jeez he makes horrible panicked decisions under any sense of pressure. I can't imagine him trying to be mentally on for an elimination final. Not that I can for most of our players or the club as a whole, but Toump especially. I can cop a skill error or decision making error under pressure if the player is backing himself to execute (Watts is often a good example of this) but not when it's a panicked handball over your head or a fresh airy

 

[DeesFan]

We recruited Matt Jones (mature age) who has played 50 games and to be honest hasn't set the world on fire and has shown no upside at all .. Bail what upside has he got? played 71 games and honestly you don't need a hand full of fingers to count have many great games he has played.

Toump least has some more time to show what he has got (ahead of Jones and Bail), some people take time to feel they are worthy of playing at the highest level, just confidence .. some take time .. Bail and Jones have had that .. least give Toump a extra two years .. I really think once he believes in himself he will setup.

There is some upside ..

 

[melbournemartin]

We recruited Matt Jones (mature age) who has played 50 games and to be honest hasn't set the world on fire and has shown no upside at all .. Bail what upside has he got? played 71 games and honestly you don't need a hand full of fingers to count have many great games he has played.

Toump least has some more time to show what he has got (ahead of Jones and Bail), some people take time to feel they are worthy of playing at the highest level, just confidence .. some take time .. Bail and Jones have had that .. least give Toump a extra two years .. I really think once he believes in himself he will setup.

There is some upside ..

If he had an extra 5 metres on his left foot then we would have beaten Collingwood. I'll never forget that.

 

[markm106]

I wouldn't mind keeping Toump however despite some reasonable form at AFL level was quickly dropped when that form dropped away. It is a concern for him that Brayshaw, ANB, Stretch and Vandenberg have all leap frogged him in thier first year. He hasn't had the best run with injury and won't surprise me to see him moved on. Perhaps a part of a trade for Lynch.

 

[Sir Hugh Percy]

I'm concerned about Jimmy, but comfortable with giving him more time. Jimmy Bartel, Jobe Watson, Dane Swan, Matthew Boyd and Stevie J (3 Brownlows there) all struggled to make an impact and get consistent games in their first 2.5 to 4 seasons, and I'm not sure whether any of them had something like Toump's hip problems. Though Swan and Stevie J had 'personal issues'.

 

[CWaffles]

I for one wouldn't be upset if Roos just played it straight to him, 1 year contract but we will need to see improvement.

Give him goals to work towards and push him to achieve them, Some people just really need someone to push them rather than pat them on the back and console them.

I really want Jimmy to succeed, I think that he would be a great person to keep around the club as he seems to really buy into it but we cant hold on to passengers.

I say keep him for 1 more year, get rid of Bail, Jones and a few others and see how he goes.

 

[Demonic Fave]

Hey Weiners, I'm allowed back.

By the way, dump him.

 

[rhaz]

Give him the Toump-ass.

Geddit? Classic.

 

[deeco]

To be honest the only think stopping him being an AFL level player at this stage is his decision making. He holds onto the ball instead of taking the first option far too often and thinks he has Jack Watts like time to craft the perfect pass and gets caught before he can get the ball off. Whatever that is due to, him not picking up the pace of AFL or played out of position or overestimating his current skill level, he doesn't fix that he won't be around much longer.

With that said, I think they are keeping him down at Casey and telling him to see target hit target as soon as he picks up the ball. He looks far more damaging and actually has an upside when he is playing that type of game, and has been when he's put in his best performances at either level. Might fortunate that we've got alot of list cloggers ahead of him in the pecking order to get rid of, and is still relatively young.

 

[ponsdale]

Give him the Toump-ass.

Geddit? Classic.

Toump Ass agrees.

 

[Ando727]

Give him the Toump-ass.

Geddit? Classic.

If he could actually toum-pass accurately, we wouldn't have to give him the toump-ass.

 

[Topkent]

We recruited Matt Jones (mature age) who has played 50 games and to be honest hasn't set the world on fire and has shown no upside at all .. Bail what upside has he got? played 71 games and honestly you don't need a hand full of fingers to count have many great games he has played.

Toump least has some more time to show what he has got (ahead of Jones and Bail), some people take time to feel they are worthy of playing at the highest level, just confidence .. some take time .. Bail and Jones have had that .. least give Toump a extra two years .. I really think once he believes in himself he will setup.

There is some upside ..

Can 1 person in this thread actually say what his upside is without saying he is young/been injured/ was pick 4

What does he actually offer

What qualities has he shown at afl level that will see him go past a Harmes/Stretch/ANB/VDB etc