List Mgmt. AFC - 2014 Drafting and Trading

[NTRabbit]

it is Sheedy so...

...don't take it at face value, because Sheedy can't order a pizza without playing word games and trying to fake out the waiter.

 

[bjn1960]

Pretty sure I remember the quote but it was more in the context that Teddy wasn't going to get games in front of Fletcher etc, he had only played 30 games in five or so years for the Bombers. So his career wasn't going to be at Essendon. Not so much in the sense of if he wasn't traded that year he was out on his arse but it is Sheedy so...

Wasn't Sheedy very negative about the future of young Watson , then he goes on to win a Brownlow?
Sheedy's judgement can be askew at times.

 

[spenze]

Wasn't Sheedy very negative about the future of young Watson , then he goes on to win a Brownlow?
Sheedy's judgement can be askew at times.

Well to be fair Sheedy was talking about a non performance enhanced model of Watson, not the one who took the Brownlow with an asterisk mark...

 

[Sanders]

Pretty sure I remember the quote but it was more in the context that Teddy wasn't going to get games in front of Fletcher etc, he had only played 30 games in five or so years for the Bombers. So his career wasn't going to be at Essendon. Not so much in the sense of if he wasn't traded that year he was out on his arse but it is Sheedy so...

Dunno about that

http://www.smh.com.au/news/afl/swan...s-on-bomber-ted/2005/10/06/1128562942453.html

Despite a stop-start career with the Bombers, Richards suddenly became hot property in trade week with Sydney competing with the Bulldogs, Brisbane and the Kangaroos to do a deal for the 22-year-old, who played just 10 games this season. That interest was based on Richards's occasionally impressive cameos but also the belief that he had not been given sufficient opportunities under coach Kevin Sheedy to establish his place in the team.

He was plainly not at risk of delisting if 4 clubs are fighting over him and the winner has to give up their first round pick

 

[Donkey Magoo]

Wasn't Sheedy very negative about the future of young Watson , then he goes on to win a Brownlow?
Sheedy's judgement can be askew at times.

Drug cheated to get it though

 

[spenze]

Dunno about that

http://www.smh.com.au/news/afl/swan...s-on-bomber-ted/2005/10/06/1128562942453.html

Despite a stop-start career with the Bombers, Richards suddenly became hot property in trade week with Sydney competing with the Bulldogs, Brisbane and the Kangaroos to do a deal for the 22-year-old, who played just 10 games this season. That interest was based on Richards's occasionally impressive cameos but also the belief that he had not been given sufficient opportunities under coach Kevin Sheedy to establish his place in the team.

He was plainly not at risk of delisting if 4 clubs are fighting over him and the winner has to give up their first round pick

So....if you read what I wrote you would see we are saying the same thing.

 

[Mego Red]

Fergus Watts traded for draft pick #17

Richard Cole traded for draft pick #23

Ted Richards for draft picks #19 & #50

Jonathan Hay for draft pick #18

Nathan Lonie for draft pick #14

Daniel Motlop for draft picks #28 & #46

Daniel McConnell and pick #18 for draft picks #13 & #29

2005 was a crazy trade year.

 

[Sanders]

So....if you read what I wrote you would see we are saying the same thing.

Not really. If you read the article he played the last 7 games in a row, and before than he got monstered by Jono Brown at CHB.

He wasn't competing with Fletcher for FB

 

[cmndstab]

Fergus Watts traded for draft pick #17

Richard Cole traded for draft pick #23

Ted Richards for draft picks #19 & #50

Jonathan Hay for draft pick #18

Nathan Lonie for draft pick #14

Daniel Motlop for draft picks #28 & #46

Daniel McConnell and pick #18 for draft picks #13 & #29

2005 was a crazy trade year.

I'm guessing this was a draft year where people viewed the top end talent at dropping off once you reached the teens? Picks 13, 14, 17, 18, 19 and 23 all involved in trades!

 

[dylan123]

Mitch Robinson is the type of player we should avoid, risk not worth the return, as his best is only average.

Tapscott is exactly the type of player we should gamble on; minimal risk with a potentially high reward.

Not sure how you can have this view.

Robinson at his best is a bash and crash type player who can rack up 24-25 odd touches a game and has had a top 10 finish in a B&F side that finished 5th for memory.

Tapscott on the other hand is a one speed player who managed a few games off half back at Melbourne, struggled with injuries and form.

Tapscott would be lucky to get anywhere near what Robinson has been able to achieve, the difference is one has actually achieved that level whereas the other one is still a hope.

If Robinson wasn't such an idiot then I'd say there would be more interest in him from opposition clubs.

 

[Vader]

I'm guessing this was a draft year where people viewed the top end talent at dropping off once you reached the teens? Picks 13, 14, 17, 18, 19 and 23 all involved in trades!

Actually, there were some decent players picked up in the teens that year -
13 - Shannon Hurn
14 - Grant Birchall
15 - Travis Varcoe
16 - Richard Douglas
17 - Darren Pfeiffer
18 - Max Bailey
19 - Courtenay Dempsey

All of those players went on to play 100+ AFL games, other than Pfeiffer & Bailey. All of the 100+ game players are still on AFL lists, after 9 years in the system. That's a better than average strike rate.

 

[cmndstab]

Actually, there were some decent players picked up in the teens that year -
13 - Shannon Hurn
14 - Grant Birchall
15 - Travis Varcoe
16 - Richard Douglas
17 - Darren Pfeiffer
18 - Max Bailey
19 - Courtenay Dempsey

All of those players went on to play 100+ AFL games, other than Pfeiffer & Bailey. All of the 100+ game players are still on AFL lists, after 9 years in the system. That's a better than average strike rate.

Of course, perceptions about the draft and the reality of the draft are often poles apart.

 

[Vader]

Of course, perceptions about the draft and the reality of the draft are often poles apart.

Not so sure about that. You often hear of a group being referred to as a "Super Draft" when they're coming through the U16 ranks, only for the talk to peter out closer to draft day. It's very rare for a draft group which is initially rated poorly, to become one which is highly rated in retrospect.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Fergus Watts traded for draft pick #17

Richard Cole traded for draft pick #23

Ted Richards for draft picks #19 & #50

Jonathan Hay for draft pick #18

Nathan Lonie for draft pick #14

Daniel Motlop for draft picks #28 & #46

Daniel McConnell and pick #18 for draft picks #13 & #29

2005 was a crazy trade year.

Geez, we did well to trade Watts for #17!!

 

[I Lost My Keays]

What a horrible name "Fergus"

 

[6BTS]

I wonder when the Crows will ever have and use a top 5 draft pick. Without doing any research at all, I am confident that every single other AFL club has at some stage had access to and used a top 5 draft pick. This is a bizarre anomaly we have, being the only club in the AFL to never use a top 5 draft pick. And it goes further, the only time we ever had access to a top five draft pick was due to a reluctant trade on our part, Kane Johnson wanted to go home so Richmond handed off their number 4 pick, which then became the number 2 pick due to Carlton's sanctions and then, of course, we traded that for Carey.

There were a couple of occasions that meant we finished low enough to get a top 5 draft pick (I think, I still can't work out those mid 90s drafts when we finished 11 out of 15 in '94 and got pick 9, 11 out of 16 in '95 and got pick 9 and 12 out of 16 in '96 and got pick 13. If anyone can direct me to information explaining why those years were the way they were, I would be very appreciative), but then priority picks bumped us out of the top 5. In the 1999 draft, we had pick 6 which we traded to Brisbane and pick 21 for Matthew Clarke. I know most of us remember the 2000 draft when we used our number 7 pick (originally number 6 before priority) and after 24 seasons in the competition and participating in 21 drafts ('91 and '92 we weren't allowed to and I haven't counted this years draft because we haven't had it yet), although we didn't get to participate much in 2012 and 2013 thanks to Stephen and Kurt, Lawrance remains the highest picked player we have ever drafted to our club. I should also mention our other sub 10 pick we had and used, John Meesen. Unfortunately, he didn't work out.

Do we really believe we can win premierships if we never draft the best talent in the land to our club? Do we really believe through sheer genius, or luck, depending on how you want to define it, we can bring home a flag with late 1st round draft picks and rookie draft picks? Do we think that we are capable of covering for the fact that we've never had a player make an impact at our club that we drafted below number 10 with trades and free agents? Say what you want about Port Adelaide, they're not losing a prelim final by 3 points to Hawthorn all because of Ken, they had access to the cream of the crop talent for many years and now they're in a strong position. It's not rocket science, unless we luck out with father-son picks over a few years who are the best players in the land, but we can use our late 1st round picks to get them, we're probably not going to win a premiership because I doubt we're getting a long line of free agents lining up to play at our club.

So, if anyone has bothered to read to this point, will we get access to a top 5 pick in the next 5 years? And if you answer yes, will we end up trading it? When we finally get a top 5 pick and use it at the draft, there is going to be a tonne of pressure on that kid to perform I already feel sorry for whoever it is.

 

[MRB37]

I wonder when the Crows will ever have and use a top 5 draft pick. Without doing any research at all, I am confident that every single other AFL club has at some stage had access to and used a top 5 draft pick. This is a bizarre anomaly we have, being the only club in the AFL to never use a top 5 draft pick. And it goes further, the only time we ever had access to a top five draft pick was due to a reluctant trade on our part, Kane Johnson wanted to go home so Richmond handed off their number 4 pick, which then became the number 2 pick due to Carlton's sanctions and then, of course, we traded that for Carey.

So, if anyone has bothered to read to this point, will we get access to a top 5 pick in the next 5 years? And if you answer yes, will we end up trading it? When we finally get a top 5 pick and use it at the draft, there is going to be a tonne of pressure on that kid to perform I already feel sorry for whoever it is.

Crows don't bottom out. Maybe that'll change under the new regime, but in the past we've never done it. They'd rather claw, fight and scratch their way to 12th than bottom out and finish 16th. Also, Crouch is as good as a Top 5 pick, not technically one, but if he went through to the national draft he likely would have been.

Bolded, that happens already, won't be any different because he's at the Crows.

 

[Golumless]

So, if anyone has bothered to read to this point, will we get access to a top 5 pick in the next 5 years? And if you answer yes, will we end up trading it? When we finally get a top 5 pick and use it at the draft, there is going to be a tonne of pressure on that kid to perform I already feel sorry for whoever it is.

I seriously doubt we will.

That said, the 5th picked player doesn't always equate to the 5th best player from that draft... in fact they rarely equate to that mark. In a lot of regards, development is equally important to the equation as recruiting is.

Mid first round you can still find a jet and recently, we've been good at it, of course, it's diluted by the fact we haven't had a 1st round pick for a couple of seasons.

 

[6BTS]

I seriously doubt we will.

That said, the 5th picked player doesn't always equate to the 5th best player from that draft... in fact they rarely equate to that mark. In a lot of regards, development is equally important to the equation as recruiting is.

Mid first round you can still find a jet and recently, we've been good at it, of course, it's diluted by the fact we haven't had a 1st round pick for a couple of seasons.

I think you make a key point here, drafting mid round may get you the team you're after, but that process needs to be backed up every year and the last 2 years have been brutal for us not to get those guys.

 

[GROTTO]

What a horrible name "Fergus"

LOL. That should have the first warning signs.

 

[GROTTO]

Crows don't bottom out. Maybe that'll change under the new regime, but in the past we've never done it. They'd rather claw, fight and scratch their way to 12th than bottom out and finish 16th. Also, Crouch is as good as a Top 5 pick, not technically one, but if he went through to the national draft he likely would have been.

Bolded, that happens already, won't be any different because he's at the Crows.

I would rather our team be chance for the 8 every year and still be in contention in August, then to have no hope for years on end.

Look at teams like Saints, Dogs and Demons, they have had solid 4-5 years in a row struggling and I would hate if that happened to us.

Imagine being a supporters where we wouldnt look at competing for the 8 till around 2020.

 

[Golumless]

I think you make a key point here, drafting mid round may get you the team you're after, but that process needs to be backed up every year and the last 2 years have been brutal for us not to get those guys.

Drafting mid first round still puts you in a decent chance to land a certified A grader, Our biggest problem in that regard currently is the area most in need of a A grader, also has the most bust potential with it being an outside midfielder.

Those two years will hurt, but that damage can be nulled though, for it to really happen though, it needs people like Kerridge, M. Crouch, Grigg, Knights, Lyons, Atkins, and [insert drafted players name here] to really step up and find a way to be a certified A grader, Kerridge and Crouch both look to be on the way of doing it (firm believer if a young kid tags, it's purely for education on how to be a gun) with the others being unknowns right now.

Biggest problem though is right now, Dangerfield is a big piece in regards to this teams success... Getting his signature is as big as landing an FA this season because someone like him is one of the reasons we aren't too badly off with those draft sanctions and the reason we'll avoid the worst of them, the other reason being of course, we're actually decently off with KPF position players and only needing 1 KPD and even then, that isn't as difficult to fill.

 

[Bay62]

...the last 2 years have been brutal for us not to get those guys.

It's the gift that keeps on taking..

 

[dogs105]

I wonder when the Crows will ever have and use a top 5 draft pick. Without doing any research at all, I am confident that every single other AFL club has at some stage had access to and used a top 5 draft pick. This is a bizarre anomaly we have, being the only club in the AFL to never use a top 5 draft pick. And it goes further, the only time we ever had access to a top five draft pick was due to a reluctant trade on our part, Kane Johnson wanted to go home so Richmond handed off their number 4 pick, which then became the number 2 pick due to Carlton's sanctions and then, of course, we traded that for Carey.

There were a couple of occasions that meant we finished low enough to get a top 5 draft pick (I think, I still can't work out those mid 90s drafts when we finished 11 out of 15 in '94 and got pick 9, 11 out of 16 in '95 and got pick 9 and 12 out of 16 in '96 and got pick 13. If anyone can direct me to information explaining why those years were the way they were, I would be very appreciative), but then priority picks bumped us out of the top 5. In the 1999 draft, we had pick 6 which we traded to Brisbane and pick 21 for Matthew Clarke. I know most of us remember the 2000 draft when we used our number 7 pick (originally number 6 before priority) and after 24 seasons in the competition and participating in 21 drafts ('91 and '92 we weren't allowed to and I haven't counted this years draft because we haven't had it yet), although we didn't get to participate much in 2012 and 2013 thanks to Stephen and Kurt, Lawrance remains the highest picked player we have ever drafted to our club. I should also mention our other sub 10 pick we had and used, John Meesen. Unfortunately, he didn't work out.

Do we really believe we can win premierships if we never draft the best talent in the land to our club? Do we really believe through sheer genius, or luck, depending on how you want to define it, we can bring home a flag with late 1st round draft picks and rookie draft picks? Do we think that we are capable of covering for the fact that we've never had a player make an impact at our club that we drafted below number 10 with trades and free agents? Say what you want about Port Adelaide, they're not losing a prelim final by 3 points to Hawthorn all because of Ken, they had access to the cream of the crop talent for many years and now they're in a strong position. It's not rocket science, unless we luck out with father-son picks over a few years who are the best players in the land, but we can use our late 1st round picks to get them, we're probably not going to win a premiership because I doubt we're getting a long line of free agents lining up to play at our club.

So, if anyone has bothered to read to this point, will we get access to a top 5 pick in the next 5 years? And if you answer yes, will we end up trading it? When we finally get a top 5 pick and use it at the draft, there is going to be a tonne of pressure on that kid to perform I already feel sorry for whoever it is.

1994: We had pick 9 as Fremantle came in and received 1 and 4. Sydney had 2,3 as priority picks, then we were the 5th worst team, picking 5,6,7,8,9. 5 and 8 were used in the Lockett trade, and ended up at St Kilda and Hawthorn.

1995: We had pick 9 again, as the 6th worst team. Freo had 1 & 3 as part of their concessions (traded pick 3 + Phil Matera to West Coast for David Hynes!!). Fitzroy had a priority pick.

1996: First 5 picks went to clubs that Port took uncontracted players from (as compensation) - as well as a second round pick each. Hence West Coast got pick 1 and 24 for losing Ian Downsborough!! Port then had the next 4 picks (but they traded pick 8 and 43 and some SANFL picks to Geelong for Shayne Breuer). We then picked 13 as the 4th worst team (after Fitzroy dropped out).

 

[Mego Red]

It's the gift that keeps on taking..

I'll be very interested in a few years to look back on 2012 and 2013 and see what teams drafted duds.

HAVING picks does not automatically equal GETTING good players (though yes, smartasses, it does bloody help).

No first and second round picks and Eddie Betts is very similar to no first or second round picks and Patty Ryder. And it is a lot better than the first and second round drafts of the Melbourne Football Club or Carlton Football Club of the last decade.