Roast AFL need to change the draft system next season for bottom four clubs.

[Roosurgence]

So you are ok with tanking and fans wanting their clubs to lose?

I think you are confusing tanking with us just being s**t.

As for fans wanting their team lose, what does that have to do with tanking?

The only thing I would like to see is a lottery if both clubs are on the same points.

Currently the Suns are in the bottom 4 with 9 wins. So you think a 9 win team needs to have an opportunity at Pick 1 vs a 2 win team?

All you will do is incentivise teams mid pack that can’t make finals to tank.

I am guessing the West Coast fan who started this thread wouldn’t have if they lost last weekend.

 

[Viceregal]

Father/Sons are the most Victorian centric thing of all time.

If it was 250-300 games (and thus more likely to be affected by increased travel demands on the longevity of the players) maybe but how is 100 games harder to get for Eagles than Carton (unnless you are referring to Vic clubs benefitting more from go-homers that then do 100 there or block them from having done their 100 'outside' first.)

New teams (eg GWS and GCS) currently behind the eight ball on that front of course but hypothetically they will have children as well and will be on an equal footing F/s wise.

 

[GWT6]

It doesn't exist.

Trust me when I tell you, North fans would have given their left feet to have won a couple of extra games this year.
The ones who don't are misguided.

Winning culture over everything else.

And one player doesn't make that much of a difference in a sport with 18 players on the ground at one time.

Hawks tanked for Roughhead.

 

[The Tilt]

Hawks tanked for Roughhead.

When priority picks were allocated on the basis of 'number of wins' formula. Not sure there's any evidence that clubs are deliberately losing to get pick 1 instead of pick 2.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Hawks tanked for Roughhead.

There has been evidence historically that it may have happened.

I'm saying that now in modern footy it doesn't.

Free agency is a massive part of player movement, and wasn't around when Melbourne, Carlton etc were being accused of trying to lose.
Star players out of contract generally don't want to move to poorer sides.
Considering that, and the priority pick being abolished (as we knew it to be), then any coach or team that attempts to tank is living 10-15 years in the past.

I don't believe any current coach is stupid enough to think losing on purpose is beneficial in modern footy.

 

[GWT6]

There has been evidence historically that it may have happened.

I'm saying that now in modern footy it doesn't.

Free agency is a massive part of player movement, and wasn't around when Melbourne, Carlton etc were being accused of trying to lose.
Star players out of contract generally don't want to move to poorer sides.
Considering that, and the priority pick being abolished (as we knew it to be), then any coach or team that attempts to tank is living 10-15 years in the past.

I don't believe any current coach is stupid enough to think losing on purpose is beneficial in modern footy.

Why did you exclude Hawthorn from that?

Carlton were the worst, then Melbourne, Hawthorn, Richmond and Collingwood. Hawthorne benefited the most - Carlton and Melbourne were so dysfunctional they couldn't even cheat right.

Don't go bigfooty nuff and exclude your own team.

 

[DanielLaneDC]

Lottery systems are interesting. But what if #1 pick goes to 15th? It would create a myriad of interesting equations for clubs below and above. Above 15th you're thinking about finals for most of the year. Below 15th you're thinking jeez I would like to be in 15th right now. If a team that's 15th gets the best youngster, they're probably not as downtrodden and will improve from 15th. If a team that's below 15th doesn't get the best youngster, they'd still get a top 5 pick, then they know to prioritise for a bit more "win now" to get to 15th. And you can't really tank your way to 15th because what if you overdo it and end up 17th?

It would be a real zany thing to do but it has some neat quirks!

 

[Blackhawk42]

Why did you exclude Hawthorn from that?

Carlton were the worst, then Melbourne, Hawthorn, Richmond and Collingwood. Hawthorne benefited the most - Carlton and Melbourne were so dysfunctional they couldn't even cheat right.

Don't go bigfooty nuff and exclude your own team.

I was 14 back then and had zero knowledge of or interest in last management.

I remember Melbourne and Carlton playing for the 'Kruezer Cup'

And the famous Melbourne vs Richmond game from 2009 is easy to remember, and was in the media for years afterwards.

I genuinely don't have enough knowledge of what Hawthorn did or didn't do in 2004. Or Collingwood for that matter.

 

[Corkintheocean]

The only tenable solution is that the entire industry realise that in a competitive 18 team league, there will always be a few sides each year to the left of the bell curve.

That and making the fixture equitable by everyone playing each other once, so the sides that are poor in any given season aren't gifting 8 points to the teams they play twice.

Of course the latter is out of the question for the Au$tralian Football League.

 

[The Educator]

I strongly believe that a points system for the draft and trade periods is what the AFL needs to go to. Give 18th lets say 4000 points, give 17th 3700 points and so on.

Then in the trade period no need to worry about a club not having picks in the right range for a player as points are traded instead.

Then on draft night we go into a blind auction. Pick 1 is announced and all 18 clubs are able to pick a player they want and the points they are willing to pay for said player, and after 2 minutes when everyone has submitted their blind bids it is announced who bid the most and what player they nominated.

Keep doing that for pick 2 and so on.

That way it matters less who finishes 18th in the season, and a team like West Coast can target Western Australians in the draft, rather than only having Vic Metro kids in their draft range and having to really reach to get the player they actually want.

Yeah, I am big on the auction system as well, at least for the top X number of players.

Perhaps clubs can submit a preference list that is fed into an algorithm that determines the top number of players in the draft.

I would keep matching options for academy and father sons but with more modest discounts.

 

[WillHayward]

Bottom 8 lottery is a good idea with slightly better odds as U go down the ladder.

 

[LETSGOKANGAS]

The last few weeks have been horrible. Wanting you're side to lose to obtain a pick 1 is just is a horrible feeling.

Now that Eagles finally got a win to get us out of this feeling of wanting to lose the comp just really needs to change the draft system next year. And I'm saying this as Eagles will likely be bottom four. This might be demientrial to our club but there needs to be a lotto system for the bottom 4 clubs. AFL can't keep going on like this where the bottom four clubs have nothing to play for except trying to lose and get lowest possible like Kangas have been doing the last half of the season. After the game against the Bulldogs even though we won we lost the number 1 pick, there was a huge sense of relief that went with it. I'm sick of wanting my side to lose for a draft pick. It's ruined the integrity of the comp and the season for me. I haven't been able to enjoy watching my club at least wanting to win over the season. It just isn't enjoyable and winning should be enjoyable on every occasion.

Don't want to go through this exact same scenario next season. It needs to change for the good. Last place on the ladder should have something to fight for. Bottom 4 clubs need some initiative for winning games. Especially the bottom 2.

Lotto draft is the only way I feel it can be done. If a side is too bad in last place PP will always be in discussion but at least change the order of draft so it's not guaranteed. Take pick position out of clubs hands.

Why wasnt this thread started a week ago?

 

[hawkman]

I was 14 back then and had zero knowledge of or interest in last management.

I remember Melbourne and Carlton playing for the 'Kruezer Cup'

And the famous Melbourne vs Richmond game from 2009 is easy to remember, and was in the media for years afterwards.

I genuinely don't have enough knowledge of what Hawthorn did or didn't do in 2004. Or Collingwood for that matter.

Hawthorn did nothing in 2004. They actually won 2 of the last 4 against the other bottom 3 teams to get off the bottom

2005 there is one game in question against Richmond where we led by 40 half way through the 3rd and still 20 half way through the last where it could be questioned. Final score was 20.17 to 21.7 so it could be argued straight kicking was the only thing keeping us in it. If it was tanking it resulted in Ellis and Dowler so didn't really provide a big benefit

 

[LETSGOKANGAS]

Wild ignorant tanking accusations from bitter opposition supporters. From facebook to reddit to of course bigfooty.

Not only are we absolute rubbish on field, we’ve had to deal with such cursed bad luck over the past 4 years.

Shaw folding
Cunnington two bouts of cancer
Clarkson accusations and investigation
Bad Boy TT
President Cancer
First spoon and number 1 pick in my lifetime makes a mockery of the draft system and leaves after 1 year

I mean how much bad luck and incompetence does a club need to show before we can prove ourselves innocent of deliberate tanking?

 

[Juddernaut08]

north tanked?

 

[Daniltchenko You Beauty]

The lottery argument is absolutely moronic. You all realise theres more tanking in the NBA than any other sport in the world right? Clubs straight up trade out half their lists midway through the year. The incentive remains. It’s a necessary evil.

 

[Walshawk]

The last few weeks have been horrible. Wanting you're side to lose to obtain a pick 1 is just is a horrible feeling.

Now that Eagles finally got a win to get us out of this feeling of wanting to lose the comp just really needs to change the draft system next year. And I'm saying this as Eagles will likely be bottom four. This might be demientrial to our club but there needs to be a lotto system for the bottom 4 clubs. AFL can't keep going on like this where the bottom four clubs have nothing to play for except trying to lose and get lowest possible like Kangas have been doing the last half of the season. After the game against the Bulldogs even though we won we lost the number 1 pick, there was a huge sense of relief that went with it. I'm sick of wanting my side to lose for a draft pick. It's ruined the integrity of the comp and the season for me. I haven't been able to enjoy watching my club at least wanting to win over the season. It just isn't enjoyable and winning should be enjoyable on every occasion.

Don't want to go through this exact same scenario next season. It needs to change for the good. Last place on the ladder should have something to fight for. Bottom 4 clubs need some initiative for winning games. Especially the bottom 2.

Lotto draft is the only way I feel it can be done. If a side is too bad in last place PP will always be in discussion but at least change the order of draft so it's not guaranteed. Take pick position out of clubs hands.

If you are 14th, you can tank to finish 15th then get pick 1. Bad idea.

 

[Purple Suit]

If Harley Reid is as good as the hype says, Eagles fans will be filthy about that win for years to come

Going off history, it won’t happen. Name one supposed tanking team who has benefitted in the long term from those players? Even when it was extra top end picks it didn’t work out, let alone 1 place.

It’s an absolute red herring that the media just dribble out to get clicks and some big footy nuffies regurgitate on a weekly basis.

 

[Roosurgence]

Going off history, it won’t happen. Name one supposed tanking team who has benefitted in the long term from those players? Even when it was extra top end picks it didn’t work out, let alone 1 place.

It’s an absolute red herring that the media just dribble out to get clicks and some big footy nuffies regurgitate on a weekly basis.

People on here must not have watched many North games, because if they did they would know we just aren’t any good and tanking has nothing to do with our results.

 

[Slysh]

The lottery argument is absolutely moronic. You all realise theres more tanking in the NBA than any other sport in the world right? Clubs straight up trade out half their lists midway through the year. The incentive remains. It’s a necessary evil.

Have tried explaining this to people time and time again and they never understand, can only assume they are non NBA fans so aren't aware how it works.

 

[Slysh]

The last few weeks have been horrible. Wanting you're side to lose to obtain a pick 1 is just is a horrible feeling.

Now that Eagles finally got a win to get us out of this feeling of wanting to lose the comp just really needs to change the draft system next year. And I'm saying this as Eagles will likely be bottom four. This might be demientrial to our club but there needs to be a lotto system for the bottom 4 clubs. AFL can't keep going on like this where the bottom four clubs have nothing to play for except trying to lose and get lowest possible like Kangas have been doing the last half of the season. After the game against the Bulldogs even though we won we lost the number 1 pick, there was a huge sense of relief that went with it. I'm sick of wanting my side to lose for a draft pick. It's ruined the integrity of the comp and the season for me. I haven't been able to enjoy watching my club at least wanting to win over the season. It just isn't enjoyable and winning should be enjoyable on every occasion.

Don't want to go through this exact same scenario next season. It needs to change for the good. Last place on the ladder should have something to fight for. Bottom 4 clubs need some initiative for winning games. Especially the bottom 2.

Lotto draft is the only way I feel it can be done. If a side is too bad in last place PP will always be in discussion but at least change the order of draft so it's not guaranteed. Take pick position out of clubs hands.

All you are going to do by adding a lottery system is incentivise MORE teams to tank. If you make it for the bottom 4 have a chance at the number 1 pick you will just get teams that are out of finals contention with 6 weeks to go but better than the bottom 4 putting the que in the rack to try and drop to 14th and a chance at the number 1 pick.

Tanking is just not a problem in the AFL despite what all the fans try to claim. The Hawks were apparently tanking this year, have constantly done everything they could to win. Exceeded expectations. West Coast just had to lose 2 more games to have a guaranteed number 1 pick, they didn't tank. Hawthorn in fact have had a trend of late season wins 'costing' themselves chances at higher picks.

It sucks as a fan being in this dilemma where it feels 'better' if your team loses but that is just part of it. Take solace in the fact the number 1 pick is rarely the best player from the draft and just tune in and watch without pressure. I have loved watching the Hawks for large parts of this year, seeing the young kids coming through and showing signs of the future. Seeing an exciting brand of footy.

 

[Slysh]

Absolute agree on your last point there. Father/Sons are the most Victorian centric thing of all time.

Would love to get your thoughts on how the NBA draft lottery is flawed though? Once again, multiple multiple first picks have been busts in that league (Fultz, Bennett, Williamson, to name a few)

It comes down to the level of the teams scouts, and the resources the clubs allocate to this.

You said we must erratic tanking at all costs. The recent history of the AFL does not suggest we have a tanking problem.

The NBA literally had teams like the Spurs make moves to be as bad as possible going in to the year to tank.

The NBA had one of the best point guards of the past decade in Damian Lillard once again get sat so the Blazers could go from being a middle range team to a top 5 lottery team.

The Mavericks who have a top 5 player in the league sat him so they could lose the last game of the season and fall in to the lottery.

Every single year in the NBA you get multiple teams reaching a point in the season where they realise they are not going to make the play offs so they decide to try and get as bad as possible in the hope they get some lottery luck.

You are suggesting that to avoid tanking we need to move from a system that is not producing teams tanking, to a system that is notorious for teams tanking.

 

[DeathlyAccurate]

No. This is not an issue, it's a media talking point.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

Agree. Don’t touch it.

The game is flawed and uneven and will never be perfectly fair.

Every grand final is at the same ground.
Some clubs benefit more from the go-home factor.
The fixture is revenue driven and never balanced.
Bigger clubs generally attract bigger free agents.
Academies.
Luck of father-son.
Umpiring/Bounce of the ball.

The more we chase ways to even it up, the more complicated it will become. A lottery in theory is good but then a team might be incentivized to drop in to the bottom 4 and possibly get a number 1 pick after being top 12 most of the year.

The game is just the way it is. Flawed, unfair, uneven and unbalanced and we still love it. Chasing shadows won’t fix anything and everything.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Obeanie1]

The last few weeks have been horrible. Wanting you're side to lose to obtain a pick 1 is just is a horrible feeling.

Now that Eagles finally got a win to get us out of this feeling of wanting to lose the comp just really needs to change the draft system next year. And I'm saying this as Eagles will likely be bottom four. This might be demientrial to our club but there needs to be a lotto system for the bottom 4 clubs. AFL can't keep going on like this where the bottom four clubs have nothing to play for except trying to lose and get lowest possible like Kangas have been doing the last half of the season. After the game against the Bulldogs even though we won we lost the number 1 pick, there was a huge sense of relief that went with it. I'm sick of wanting my side to lose for a draft pick. It's ruined the integrity of the comp and the season for me. I haven't been able to enjoy watching my club at least wanting to win over the season. It just isn't enjoyable and winning should be enjoyable on every occasion.

Don't want to go through this exact same scenario next season. It needs to change for the good. Last place on the ladder should have something to fight for. Bottom 4 clubs need some initiative for winning games. Especially the bottom 2.

Lotto draft is the only way I feel it can be done. If a side is too bad in last place PP will always be in discussion but at least change the order of draft so it's not guaranteed. Take pick position out of clubs hands.

Great idea.

One team tanks so lets change the system so future teams who didnt tank end up not getting pick 1.

Fair chance if you get your wish it backfires. Eagles finish last in 2024. North finish 2nd last and the lotto ball drop and North get another pick 1.

How do you think that would go down?

This will be Norths lastwooden spoon for a long while. Let the tankers have their day in the sun ans then enjoy thespoils like Melbourne and Carlton didn't.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Why did you exclude Hawthorn from that?

Carlton were the worst, then Melbourne, Hawthorn, Richmond and Collingwood. Hawthorne benefited the most - Carlton and Melbourne were so dysfunctional they couldn't even cheat right.

Don't go bigfooty nuff and exclude your own team.

theres only one game which hawks are suspected of tanking - 2005 vs richmond round 22 (tanked a 7 goal lead at half time to lose and keep under 5 wins)
karma got us as the draft picks were a bust though

2004 was not tanking - basically ****ed up the whole season and won 2 of the last 4 games under caretaker coach. Preseason the original coach stated we would win the flag