Toast All things Paul Roos + Coaching: McCartney joins coaches

[MAXIMUM GRUNDAGE]

 

[Klyntonius]

I think you're way off on Ling given his comments recently about his feelings toward coaching.

A couple of articles lately have made mention that the senior assistant role will likely have no guarantees of future succession. Lends weight to the Ling talk I think, leaving a back-up/primary plan to chase Clarkson at the end of 2016.

 

[Devastating Boris]

Well junior is giving the coaching game away to become a farmer so that's disappointing.

 

[LeverPuller]

Well junior is giving the coaching game away to become a farmer so that's disappointing.

Jeff must be happy about that...odd for Junior to change his name though

 

[ponsdale]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-07-30/james-mcdonald-to-swap-footy-for-farming

Is "agribusiness" the new euphemism for returning to Melbourne?

 

[d33my]

Junior McDonald had a farm.....something something

 

[ponsdale]

Taken from http://www.theguardian.com/sport/bl...uld-realise-old-coaches-are-beautiful-coaches

One step below Australian football’s big-time in the VFL a host of older senior coaches are thriving well beyond the average age of those in the AFL. Foxtel Cup-winning Williamstown coach Andy Collins is 49, Port Melbourne’s highly-regarded 2011 Premiership coach Gary Ayres is 53 and North Ballarat’s triple-flag winning Gerard FitzGerald is 57. Collins thinks there’s something to be said for lengthy coaching apprenticeships and a slower, steadier accumulation of the skills required to fill AFL positions.

Any thoughts on the VLF coaches? Ayres or the like?

 

[Topkent]

The only sport in the world when experience as a senior coach is a negative

 

[Cannon82]

The only sport in the world when experience as a senior coach is a negative

Not really. The stigma around guys like Ayres, Neeld, Rawlings, etc is that they've been tried once, it didn't work out so never again. Maybe they were genuinely rubbish (Neeld) or maybe not quite ready, but second chances are very, very hard to come by. Coaches are high profile appointments and the majority of fans are going to fail to get excited about a Mr Andy Collins of North Ballarat fame signing on as coach of their club. Hence the preferred method of recruitment is take a former player, ideally 200+ games at your club who the fans already love, give him a role as an assistant for a period so he can learn the ropes and then promote him to the hot seat. Appointments like Buckley and Hird are easy because it's half popular opinion anyway - if it goes wrong, the Chief Exec can point to all the positive markers and say it seemed the right move at the time. Appoint a low profile VFL coach as boss and it goes pear-shaped, every man and his dog lines up to say I told you so and you're probably out of a job at the AGM.

 

[Topkent]

Not really. The stigma around guys like Ayres, Neeld, Rawlings, etc is that they've been tried once, it didn't work out so never again. Maybe they were genuinely rubbish (Neeld) or maybe not quite ready, but second chances are very, very hard to come by. Coaches are high profile appointments and the majority of fans are going to fail to get excited about a Mr Andy Collins of North Ballarat fame signing on as coach of their club. Hence the preferred method of recruitment is take a former player, ideally 200+ games at your club who the fans already love, give him a role as an assistant for a period so he can learn the ropes and then promote him to the hot seat. Appointments like Buckley and Hird are easy because it's half popular opinion anyway - if it goes wrong, the Chief Exec can point to all the positive markers and say it seemed the right move at the time. Appoint a low profile VFL coach as boss and it goes pear-shaped, every man and his dog lines up to say I told you so and you're probably out of a job at the AGM.

Righto so instead of appointing the best man you should appoint someone to appease the fans?
Your job should ride on who you pick thats why its crazy that all these untried assistants keep getting gigs
How could they possibly be better than Voss, Ratten, Harvey, Ayres etc when they already have the experience of coaching senior teams
If the argument is that untried coaches will learn on the job then how much have the aforementioned learnt

 

[Cannon82]

Righto so instead of appointing the best man you should appoint someone to appease the fans?
Your job should ride on who you pick thats why its crazy that all these untried assistants keep getting gigs
How could they possibly be better than Voss, Ratten, Harvey, Ayres etc when they already have the experience of coaching senior teams
If the argument is that untried coaches will learn on the job then how much have the aforementioned learnt

Who the best man is (or isn't) is only apparent after the fact. If you have the power of foresight Nick, I suggest you go knock on doors at football departments or just recruiting places in general because they'd love to have you.

 

[Topkent]

Who the best man is (or isn't) is only apparent after the fact. If you have the power of foresight Nick, I suggest you go knock on doors at football departments or just recruiting places in general because they'd love to have you.

I would bet my quite unsubstantial wealth that a tried coach will have learnt more than an untried coach if given the job

 

[Cannon82]

I would bet my quite unsubstantial wealth that a tried coach will have learnt more than an untried coach if given the job

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Experience is one of many factors to consider and obviously a positive, but not the be all and end all.

 

[Benwah83]

Junior McDonald had a farm.....something something

I gave something similar a run on the GWS board yesterday. Got nothing from them. Nothing.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/mcdonald-to-leave-the-giants.1071473/

 

[PerfectFooty]

I wouldn't mind seeing Ayres get a second run, not to sure how i would feel if it were us giving him that chance, but i reckon he definitely deserves a chance again at some AFL club.

Sometimes supporters don't know what the best interest of the club is, and often call for blood in favour of a past player, such as a Buckley or a Hird. Sometimes this can come off, sometimes it can't. Have a look at past richmond coaches since 1980, there are some pretty talented players/ coaches on that list which where either disappointing as a coach or did not serve long enough (because of fans) to become a successful one.

 

[Dory_77]

Also on the 'experience = better' front - Terry Wallace was an 'experienced coach' when he took over Richmond. I know this is somewhat an exception to the trend but still, experience does not always mean someone will be a better coach.

 

[Topkent]

Also on the 'experience = better' front - Terry Wallace was an 'experienced coach' when he took over Richmond. I know this is somewhat an exception to the trend but still, experience does not always mean someone will be a better coach.

Too much blame goes onto Wallace for what happened at Richmond, Yeah yeah he is easy to pile into so everyone does it but hes the same as Neeld, They were probably s**t coaches but their was far more to it than just the coach at both clubs
Of course being a s**t coach it wont matter if you have experience but guys like Voss and Ratten should be miles ahead of someone like Ling, Ling has never coached before

You wouldnt become CEO of Coke Cola after a year as their media advisor

Also Brett Ratten may have been an attacking coach, but give him 2 years to learn Roos philosophy and see what he can do

 

[Cannon82]

What about what happened at the Bulldogs? Wallace got a running jump out of them early doors and led them through a steady decline over the following seasons until he pulled the pin. Then he took over at the Tigers. Yes there are mitigating factors but a s**t coach is a s**t coach.

Voss is going to carry the can for that mental recruiting at Brisbane for quite some time. Adding Xavier Clarke, Amon Buchanan, Andrew Raines, etc for a tilt at the premiership? Want to gamble with your club and career on someone who had a lapse in judgment like that?

I think Ratten will get another go, and we could do a lot worse than get him in. Whether he wants to leave the Hawks or not is a different story.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Too much blame goes onto Wallace for what happened at Richmond, Yeah yeah he is easy to pile into so everyone does it but hes the same as Neeld, They were probably s**t coaches but their was far more to it than just the coach at both clubs
Of course being a s**t coach it wont matter if you have experience but guys like Voss and Ratten should be miles ahead of someone like Ling, Ling has never coached before

You wouldnt become CEO of Coke Cola after a year as their media advisor

Also Brett Ratten may have been an attacking coach, but give him 2 years to learn Roos philosophy and see what he can do

The main danger as I see it with going an experienced going like Voss or Ratten is that they've already had total control of their own team, they already have a philosophy on football - will they stick to Roosy's plan?

If it's a well credentialed assistant they'll love to learn under Roos, I'm not sure blokes who have coached a senior team for 4-5 years in the same fashion will be too keen to overturn their style.

 

[Topkent]

The main danger as I see it with going an experienced going like Voss or Ratten is that they've already had total control of their own team, they already have a philosophy on football - will they stick to Roosy's plan?

If it's a well credentialed assistant they'll love to learn under Roos, I'm not sure blokes who have coached a senior team for 4-5 years in the same fashion will be too keen to overturn their style.

Well and then your talking to the character of the man , voss has gone into the media while ratten has quietly gone on to work underneath clarkson again

Hey if there is another assistant that's done a ten year apprenticeship and wants to learn then interview them but how can someone with no experience possibly be a front runner

 

[d33my]

I gave something similar a run on the GWS board yesterday. Got nothing from them. Nothing.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/mcdonald-to-leave-the-giants.1071473/

I gave you a little something.

 

[DeesFan]

Ratten has come out recently that he wants another go at the top job and rumours (friend) is that he is interested in the Dees job.

The experience and IP he will have gained over his time with the Hawks and then working under Roos for two year will allow him to really take over a well structured team.

But like every story take it with a grain of salt but we could do worse.

 

[Demon 16]

Wallace had a terrible relationship with his players at both clubs.

They hated him and didn't rate him.

 

[Theseventhhamster]

That and Wallace was all over the recruiting while being horrible at it.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Ratten has come out recently that he wants another go at the top job and rumours (friend) is that he is interested in the Dees job.

The experience and IP he will have gained over his time with the Hawks and then working under Roos for two year will allow him to really take over a well structured team.

But like every story take it with a grain of salt but we could do worse.

Ratten is a guy who I think will be open to change, he was willing to take a position under Clarkson anyway - I think I'd be pretty happy with him.

Although, Clarkson did say that the reason Bolton was chosen to be the fill in was that he'd keep the message exactly the same - all he's known as an AFL coach is Clarkson's way.

So maybe they thought Ratten may deviate from that?