Toast Before we start chewing our arm off....

[Rooboy 96]

Now that you and I are on the same page, finally, about where we have to finish in 2015 now comes the neuron-challenging exercise of realistically racking up 18+ wins to finish 1 or 2. Do you think the way we play we are a good shot to only drop 3 or 4 games in an entire season given we have been lugging 3 or 4 passengers per week pretty much the entire season this year?

firstly I doubt we will ever be on the same page, but let's for argument sake pretend we are. the long term injuries this year accounted for many so called passengers we had this year, JMac and Wells to start with, I could add Tarrant and Garner who I would have as automatic starters if fit and firing, so there are your 3 or 4 passengers gone.
I do agree we have some pruning to do as with every year, probably not as heavily as you, but yes LA, Curran, McMahon (pay the contract out) and Hine are gone, I'd add Currie to that list as I prefer Daw as our backup ruck, and a few rookies in McGenniss and Warren, if Tarrant wants to give it away I would not begrudge him that, and if Mickey calls it a day I can understand too, I'd give Jacobs, Harper, Nahas and McKenzie another year each and I'd ask Grima how his body feels. Turner gets promoted I'd only promote Tippett if it had to be done to keep him.

 

[TheKanga]

Top 4 next year, we can do it

 

[Rod Stroker]

Last year Sydney got smashed in a prelim, look at them this year.

This year they added a million dollar player and best forward in the comp. That's a hefty improvement.
On top of the other one they already snagged the previous year.

 

[Tas]

firstly I doubt we will ever be on the same page, but let's for argument sake pretend we are. the long term injuries this year accounted for many so called passengers we had this year, JMac and Wells to start with, I could add Tarrant and Garner who I would have as automatic starters if fit and firing, so there are your 3 or 4 passengers gone.

We are on the same page in terms of where we need to get to in order to be a realistic chance of contending.

However, to win 18+ games requires a level of consistency that we haven't shown to date. We would need to make a significant improvement to be a top 2 team next year. It is not the caliber of player that is the problem, it is the desire, the work-rate, the 2-way running, the pressure that is inconsistent. We just too frequently do not come out to play.

But, I dunno, we never really played Wood instead of Black, we never gave Dumont a go for an underachieving mid. Do you think it was just a lack of availability that got the underachievers games? It is not like we were totally devoid of options.

I do agree we have some pruning to do as with every year, probably not as heavily as you, but yes LA, Curran, McMahon (pay the contract out) and Hine are gone, I'd add Currie to that list as I prefer Daw as our backup ruck, and a few rookies in McGenniss and Warren, if Tarrant wants to give it away I would not begrudge him that, and if Mickey calls it a day I can understand too, I'd give Jacobs, Harper, Nahas and McKenzie another year each and I'd ask Grima how his body feels. Turner gets promoted I'd only promote Tippett if it had to be done to keep him.

I haven't suggested culling anyone, some of the obvious ones you suggest will likely be in the mix.

Even if we got rid of nobody and recruited nobody, there 'should' be significant improvement in almost every player on our list. We sucked arse in the wet for years and years because we didn't train in the wet and came running back under cover as soon as it started to rain because some sports scientist didn't want us getting hurt, we actually started to train in wet conditions and lo and behold we weren't that bad in the wet this year. That isn't player ability, that is the coaching and management of the team.

If you set the bar low then you are relying heavily on individual drive to push well above that standard. Melbourne were abysmally low for a long time because the bar of expectation was set deplorably low.

In any job you work, your employer will be quite understanding and patient with you. But, if you keep repeating the same mistakes over and over despite being told over and over what you are doing wrong then there comes a point in time that you have to question is this the right career path for you.

I just don't accept that players can't execute the most basic of skills to an adequate level and lack the ability to stop making the same mistakes over and over. There is either a problem with the coaching or the players. As I said, we can't make the numerous mistakes that we make and believe we are on track to be one of the best teams in the comp.

Everyone assumes it is just going to happen, nothing 'just' happens. We have to work hard to earn it. If the players say they will never rock up to a game again and give a half-arsed effort then I would be supremely confident we could make it. We wont get that commitment, they wont make that commitment to eachother either. If they did this year we would have been a top 4 team and we would have been accustom to winning and would be pushing that standard higher and higher.

We have to overcome our fear of failure as a club. Brad never sets the bar high because he is afraid of being held accountable to that standard. Petrie seizes up in front of goal out of fear of failure. Brown doesn't have that fear, he is young, confident and wanted to take the shots. It is just much safer and more comfortable being a developing club than having that weight of expectation. At some point, someone has to start putting the expectation on the group.

If a supporter can't expect this group to stop repeating the same countless horrendous decisions and poorly executed mistakes then how do we push forward when we are afraid of that expectation to perform or raise the standard and quality of our footy?

Our supporters must demand a higher standard, must demand that of our board, the board must demand it of the coach and the coach must demand it of the players.

There were numerous positives this year, a lot of fantastic things happened which we will thrash out over the pre-season but we have far too many players where the variance between their 'on' footy and their 'off' footy is just too far apart. We need to significantly narrow the variance so we still win when we are not having a good game.

 

[ozzyoslo]

I just don't like to see us play like that, lose like that. It is not a high standard performance. I expected us to go down but go down fighting, I hate to say it but that effort was weak,

Three invaluable finals as another poster stated earlier.......the rub of the green didn't go our way yesterday , the group didn't drop their bundle they played attacking football we didn't flood their forward line. Every supporter , member , person connected to the club can hold their heads held high. We were beaten on the night by a better outfit, one who has more experience than our group. Those earlier finals wins will feed the preseason pain and drive the group throughout the 2015 season.

 

[ozzyoslo]

Top 4 has to be the aim next year.

Many, including myself aimed that this year.....

 

[Gasometer]

I don't assume my OP will just happen.

The point is that we have reason to be optimistic more so than 2007 and 2012.

Killer word is 'potential'.....

 

[Peter Wallis]

firstly I doubt we will ever be on the same page, but let's for argument sake pretend we are. the long term injuries this year accounted for many so called passengers we had this year, JMac and Wells to start with, I could add Tarrant and Garner who I would have as automatic starters if fit and firing, so there are your 3 or 4 passengers gone.
I do agree we have some pruning to do as with every year, probably not as heavily as you, but yes LA, Curran, McMahon (pay the contract out) and Hine are gone, I'd add Currie to that list as I prefer Daw as our backup ruck, and a few rookies in McGenniss and Warren, if Tarrant wants to give it away I would not begrudge him that, and if Mickey calls it a day I can understand too, I'd give Jacobs, Harper, Nahas and McKenzie another year each and I'd ask Grima how his body feels. Turner gets promoted I'd only promote Tippett if it had to be done to keep him.

Tippett has already been promoted & Turner looks a lock in as well. Nahas was on a 1 year deal so will go imo & I doubt that Grima will continue.

The team could have been better last night if you could have added Hansen, MacMillan & Tarrant to the side & if you can add say a Higgins or Waite to the list I think the team can only improve. The likes of Dumont & Garner will get opportunities next year as well as players like Jacobs & Adams struggle at the top level, while Brown & McDonald can only have benefited greatly from the experience.

The team looked physically & mentally tired last night & in reality probably played their GF last week. Its not going to be easy taking the next step but I feel they are definitely going in the right direction.

 

[Only Forwards]

I don't assume my OP will just happen.

The point is that we have reason to be optimistic more so than 2007 and 2012.

Killer word is 'potential'.....

The word for me is development.

Teams don't come from the clouds and win flags.

they make finals, the get beaten, they win some the back up the next year get better, win more. They conitnue to push. We will continue to push.

 

[Jack Reacher]

Can we sign greenwood already please? I'm getting nervous - it's not like we have treated him well these last few years

Don't be, what last night showed if anything is that we have too many 'same' midfield types, I for one will be happy to trade one of either Greenwood, Bastinac, Cunners or even Swallow to get what we need, a Dangerfield type or Cameron type up forward for starters.....I hope B.Scott is true to his word and that we DO improve our list and aggressively participate in trade week......people will say I'm crazy but you need to give up something to get something decent that is a fact. We do lack class & a genuine game-breaker.

 

[Jack Reacher]

......and no more Jacobs-types please, surely he sealed his fate last night, I'd be VERY VERY surprised if he survives the cut, no good.

 

[Unity-28]

Don't be, what last night showed if anything is that we have too many 'same' midfield types, I for one will be happy to trade one of either Greenwood, Bastinac, Cunners or even Swallow to get what we need, a Dangerfield type or Cameron type up forward for starters.....I hope B.Scott is true to his word and that we DO improve our list and aggressively participate in trade week......people will say I'm crazy but you need to give up something to get something decent that is a fact. We do lack class & a genuine game-breaker.

The only one of that group that "should" be traded is Basti....i like the kid, but cunners, levi and spitta are to go nowhere. Spitta with a pre season will get better, Cunners will improve, anf Piggy, well what can you say. SIGNhim up....
Basti, has been a passenger all year. he had a couple of good games, where i thought "hes finally realised what work rate he needs" but them drops iff fir 4-5 weeks....And he aint a sub.

 

[ansonholt]

O R G A N I C G R O W T H......****

This is absolutely where it is at. Look at who we have because of this approach: Brown and Turner. Both very young and very promising. There's only so many 28-30 yo players you can add to the list. NDS was obviously huge for us, but I wouldn't do too much more in this area.

 

[Jack Bradley]

Don't be, what last night showed if anything is that we have too many 'same' midfield types, I for one will be happy to trade one of either Greenwood, Bastinac, Cunners or even Swallow to get what we need, a Dangerfield type or Cameron type up forward for starters.....I hope B.Scott is true to his word and that we DO improve our list and aggressively participate in trade week......people will say I'm crazy but you need to give up something to get something decent that is a fact. We do lack class & a genuine game-breaker.

Well thank god your not our list manager - bastanac needs to go. I really hated Scott's choice to play his as emergency. He adds nothing. I think people forget just how good Sydney are - I wasn't too upset with last night. You are all forgetting we were playing both the Swan$ and the AFL.

 

[trooroo4life]

If I offered you a 12 goal hiding in a prelim would you have snatched at it?

Of course it's a disappointing ending, but we made a prelim and played a team who along with Hawthorn are way ahead of the rest.
It was a great ride, 9th to Prelim. Hopefully next year it's Prelim to Premiers.

 

[Jack Reacher]

Of course it's a disappointing ending, but we made a prelim and played a team who along with Hawthorn are way ahead of the rest.
It was a great ride, 9th to Prelim. Hopefully next year it's Prelim to Premiers.

That aint gonna happen without some seriously good acquisitions.

 

[trooroo4life]

Tippett has already been promoted & Turner looks a lock in as well. Nahas was on a 1 year deal so will go imo & I doubt that Grima will continue.

The team could have been better last night if you could have added Hansen, MacMillan & Tarrant to the side & if you can add say a Higgins or Waite to the list I think the team can only improve. The likes of Dumont & Garner will get opportunities next year as well as players like Jacobs & Adams struggle at the top level, while Brown & McDonald can only have benefited greatly from the experience.

The team looked physically & mentally tired last night & in reality probably played their GF last week. Its not going to be easy taking the next step but I feel they are definitely going in the right direction.

Great post!

 

[trooroo4life]

That aint gonna happen without some seriously good acquisitions.

And we probably said that last year about winning a couple of finals.

Agree, a couple of nice acquisitions would be awesome. Let's see how the next couple of months play out, going to be an interesting off season.

 

[ansonholt]

I worry about our coach, he is either lying to us or lying to himself, either is not really a great sign.

The coach is the least of our 'problems'. Lying is also too strong of a word. I thought he tried to put a positive spin on a difficult loss. Most if not all of us (hopefully bloody all of us!) would have been happy with him getting us two finals wins this year and a top four finish?

Our problems lie in key position players and speed. With regards to KPF we have found one in Browny but he won't be the lynchpin like Petrie is for a few seasons yet. He may not get there. Majak Daw is still a work in progress. Still. Tarrant likewise.

KPDs - a huge area of weakness. Joel Tippett has plenty of potential, as does Cam Delaney. But they did not have full seasons and also may yet not make it. A lot was asked of Thommo, Grima and Spud this year. They delivered in spades given the amount of ball that went in at times.

Now for speed: we have very few players who can blitz the opposition with run. Atley and some 36yo bloke are really the only two we have at the moment. Keiran Harper remains an enigma, and not sure he can play as a mid anyway. We need outside run. Dangerfield is the obvious answer but that's an extreme longshot, despite what has happened at Adelaide this week.

So that's our draft priority.

The coach is freakin' awesome and I want him to stay for a bloody long time.

 

[shinboner magic]

Top 4 - would of taken that at any point during the season.

Pluses this year for players that were outside our best 22 at beginning of season.

Pig
Spud
Wright
Jacobs
Brown
Turner
Lmac

Also development of other players that showed form in seconds and or played a few games

Tippett
Dumont
Wood
Nahas

Still have injured players like garner to comeback as well.

Really should be proud of how far we have went and how many other players have stood up when required.

 

[Kanga1996]

We have no pace on the forward line, our flanks and pockets are slow, no pace out of the back line, we have Atley but he can't find space. As soon as the ball hits the ground up forward it comes zinging out at a million miles an hour.

The slower it goes in the faster it comes out . Hard to judge us when so many players were beaten on the night.
Sydney are not that fast. But their ability to win a one on one contest made us chase tail all night.

 

[Gasometer]

This is absolutely where it is at. Look at who we have because of this approach: Brown and Turner. Both very young and very promising. There's only so many 28-30 yo players you can add to the list. NDS was obviously huge for us, but I wouldn't do too much more in this area.

yeh I have not got a problem with it...but if you are going to do it play them instead of warehousing for bottom 8 teams...you never know what you might get. ..Brown and Turner for example.

 

[franjon]

Don't see too many sides jump from 10th to 4th in a season. Very proud of what we achieved, no complaints. Winning those 2 finals will be invaluable for the team. It was good to be in the big time again. Sydney are on another level, tonight showed where we need to get to.

I'm not huge on giving credit to the opposition, but Sydney were awesome. You can crap on about Franklin and Tippett and what they've been handed but they weren't handed a midfield and that's where they killed it. They also had a week off and having watched our last 3 flags I can assure you you're kidding yourself if you don't think that's an advantage. We've had a great year and the positives far outweigh the negatives going forward. Changes will happen but that's the nature of the beast anyway. I'm also proud and bring on 2015. We didn't just happen into a prelim, there's a solid ground there to build on and I'm more happy than unhappy. We just need to stop losing to sides we should be beating, and then we'll make top 4.

 

[Gasometer]

I'm not huge on giving credit to the opposition, but Sydney were awesome. You can crap on about Franklin and Tippett .

The thing is that this is what people will remember about this team in 2014.

There is a perception some 40 years on that our first Flag was bought in 1975 by many older VFL fans.

If they win next week, there will be a perception that this was a 'bought' Flag that will forever go through history as to how to both these individuals got to this Club, combined with the COLA of the past however many years. As much as Horse defends his even spread in his press conferences, Tippet and Buddy will probably be the difference again next week.

Good luck to them.

 

[naturally north]

Rarely do teams make the finals and go on to win it first attempt.

You have to fail, sometimes over and over in order to win.

The fact that we've made a prelim first up makes me optimistic that our learning will be accelerated twice as fast. I'm extremely positive leading into next season. Being able to string games on end at the tail of the season also teaches us what it takes to win week in and week out.

Bring on 2015.

Good post.

Outside of the 22 that took to the park last night we've still got..

Hansen- no explanation required.

Dumont- who from what I've seen has the tools to make it. ( Not in a A. Kennedy kind of way where people are seeing s**t that isn't really there)

Wood- like what I saw, needs to improve defensively.

Mullet- interesting one, can play wouldn't be against him at half fwd/wing.

McMillian- we saw last night he's best 22.

Delaney
Tarrant- reckon both will survive on the list for at least 12 months, would think one of them can find some luck.

Tippet- will get more opportunity you'd think.

Daw- aint giving up reckon there's hope for him.

Garner, Nahas- both can play.


There's plenty of talent amongst that lot and with some luck, who knows