Podcast BigFooty Cats Podcast Episode 7: National Draft preview

[SJ]

Hi all,

A week out from the National Draft and we have previewed the Cats approach with the usual crew, including draft gurus thejester and Pure_Ownage. Gysenn and I will be throwing the questions around.

Thanks for your input!

YouTube:



iTunes (please subscribe): https://itunes.apple.com/au/podcast/bigfooty-cats-podcast-episode/id740234897?i=321195452&mt=2

 

[Pivo]

- To go tall or not to go tall - that is the question.
- is there a "smokey" or are they a thing of the past?
- why doesn't the BF Community like South Australians this year - need I remind people SA went back-to-back?
- mature agers - should we or shouldn't we?
- does the draft have depth or is it simply more even than other years?
- since Stephen Wells was one of the AA selectors this year, could the U18 AA team give us some direction to who Wells might fancy (I think not but, what the hell, it is a question)?

How is that for a "vanilla" start?

 

[Partridge]

- To go tall or not to go tall - that is the question.
- is there a "smokey" or are they a thing of the past?
- why doesn't the BF Community like South Australians this year - need I remind people SA went back-to-back?
- mature agers - should we or shouldn't we?
- does the draft have depth or is it simply more even than other years?
- since Stephen Wells was one of the AA selectors this year, could the U18 AA team give us some direction to who Wells might fancy (I think not but, what the hell, it is a question)?

How is that for a "vanilla" start?

Given the age of our list, how many veterans we already have, plus the age of the players we traded in, I'd argue we most definitely do not need any mature age players.

I would ideally like 3-4 players who are already proficient in a certain role, that will be developed in that role. Say a midfielder, a ruckman and a key defender.

 

[Pivo]

Given the age of our list, how many veterans we already have, plus the age of the players we traded in, I'd argue we most definitely do not need any mature age players.

I would ideally like 3-4 players who are already proficient in a certain role, that will be developed in that role. Say a midfielder, a ruckman and a key defender.

It is an interesting discussion to have because of people's definition of "mature aged".

It seems to me that a number of people consider a guy who isn't 18 when drafted as "mature aged" but I think there is a bit more to it than their age.

There are overagers playing TAC Cup for example.

Personally, I think someone like Chris Cain (a guy who I think is unlucky not to have been given a shot), who is 27 (I think), can be considered as a "mature ager". Likewise, a guy like Matt Panos who is 23 or 24 and been on an AFL list previously could be classed as mature.

But Panos still has a lot of football left in him.

A guy like Josh Glenn (who has a few fans on this board) appears to be classified as a mature aged player because he has played a couple of years at senior level in the SANFL.

But Glenn is only 20 if memory serves. That is still young and I'd think there is still plenty of development in him.

 

[Lana]

For me a mature aged pick depends on how much senior football the player has played, how raw the player is and how much growth they have left.
I don't consider someone like Rory Lobb who was drafted last year aged 21 as a mature aged pick up since he was a raw prospect.
While Glenn would be since he played at least two years of Senior SANFL football.

 

[Pivo]

For me a mature aged pick depends on how much senior football the player has played, how raw the player is and how much growth they have left.
I don't consider someone like Rory Lobb who was drafted last year aged 21 as a mature aged pick up since he was a raw prospect.
While Glenn would be since he played at least two years of Senior SANFL football.

I'll disagree with you here. On Glenn at least.

Glenn went from Div 4 amateur footy straight into the SANFL seniors.

While that displays a fair degree of talent it also means he hasn't really been exposed to a professional (semi-professional in the SANFL) envioronment for very long and, as such, I'd suggest he is still a bit wet behind the ears with a fair amount of potential still to be tapped.

One of the reasons Glenn failed to nominate last year was because he felt it was too big a step-up from where he'd been 12 month prior.

As such, I'd argue that Glenn shouldn't be classed as "mature aged" just because he has played a couple of years in the SANFL. There are other considerations to take into account.

As I mentioned, people will have different takes on the subject I think (or not).

 

[Lana]

I just don't see how he's any different from Taylor, he only played a dozen less Senior games than Taylor did.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Given the age of our list, how many veterans we already have, plus the age of the players we traded in, I'd argue we most definitely do not need any mature age players.

I would ideally like 3-4 players who are already proficient in a certain role, that will be developed in that role. Say a midfielder, a ruckman and a key defender.

I would agree with that, depends on your definition of mature ager though. For example I wouldn't take anyone over 25 with our list profile, but Murdoch was drafted as an overager and hence was fairly ready to play in his first year. Langdon last year and probably Drummond this year would be examples of the same.

Similarly Glenn is only 20 but has played senior football in the SANFL and done well, both of those guys would be fairly ready to play seniors in their first year but wouldn't skew the age profile of the list.

Good question though and one we will be discussing.

Generally to everyone feel free to ask as many questions as you like, there is no such thing as a silly question, all welcomed. We won't be able to answer them all due to time constraints but your questions give a good idea of what topics you would all like us to focus on, and we will endeavour to ensure the podcast covers as many of them as possible.

 

[Pivo]

I just don't see how he's any different from Taylor, he only played a dozen less Senior games than Taylor did.

I'm simply suggesting there are other things to consider. Like, Glenn playing Div. 4 Ammos 24 months ago.

As I mentioned, he didn't nominate last year because he felt he wasn't ready despite finishing in the Top 10 B+F at Centrals in his first year.

By his own admission that sounds like a guy who shouldn't be classified as a "mature ager".

And I think it is it fair to suggest that Div 4 Ammos is likely to be a little different in standard and preparation to the TAC Cup or U18s in the SANFL so it was probably a smart move on his part.

A lot of the SA and WA boys drafted this year will have been exposed to senior footy as well but, for the most part, you don't expect them to just step up. I feel the same way in regard to Glenn.

However, someone like Panos I'd expect to be ready to go.

End of the day, "mature ager" might be seen more as a generic term applied to players who are over 18 (the traditional age for draftees).

 

[Two Planks]

With the obsession of drafting "big" midfielders like Fyfe, JPK and Mundy are the chances of clubs drafting short people like Caleb Daniel and Ben Cavarra about zero.

 

[Lana]

I'm simply suggesting there are other things to consider. Like, Glenn playing Div. 4 Ammos 24 months ago.

As I mentioned, he didn't nominate last year because he felt he wasn't ready despite finishing in the Top 10 B+F at Centrals in his first year.

By his own admission that sounds like a guy who shouldn't be classified as a "mature ager".

And I think it is it fair to suggest that Div 4 Ammos is likely to be a little different in standard and preparation to the TAC Cup or U18s in the SANFL so it was probably a smart move on his part.

A lot of the SA and WA boys drafted this year will have been exposed to senior footy as well but, for the most part, you don't expect them to just step up. I feel the same way in regard to Glenn.

However, someone like Panos I'd expect to be ready to go.

End of the day, "mature ager" might be seen more as a generic term applied to players who are over 18 (the traditional age for draftees).

Its not as if he wasn't considered good enough or wasn't involved in the system, he played five games in the U18 and the reserves at the start of the year. Anyway lets agree to disagree for the moment.

Doesn't Panos have a huge query on his tank, the numbers he has been puling are impressive but if its true that he isn't moving enough km per game I can't see him as anything more than a rookie chances at best.

 

[Pivo]

Its not as if he wasn't considered good enough or wasn't involved in the system, he played five games in the U18 and the reserves at the start of the year. Anyway lets agree to disagree for the moment.

Doesn't Panos have a huge query on his tank, the numbers he has been puling are impressive but if its true that he isn't moving enough km per game I can't see him as anything more than a rookie chances at best.

Perhaps I'm being a dick here for no good reason and I'll apologise for that.

Yes, Glenn was considered good enough - clearly, but he himself didn't feel like he was ready. A mature aged player probably doesn't have those kinds of doubts (I probably shouldn't say that as it is basically a guess on my behalf).

I would think a mature aged player thinks time isn't on his side and wants to get at it right away.

I think the discussion is more around the general use of the term "mature ager" and the image it conjours with people. I think it can sometimes create some unnecessary expectations (similar to what being a Top 10 draft pick can create).

Lets just say I obviously see it as a more 'grey' than others.

You're comfortable classing Glenn as a "mature aged" player, I don't think it is quite that clear cut.

I think we can both agree that he is a likely prospect regardless of the tag attributed to him.

As for Panos - I think you're right. There are questions over his ability to run out games in the midfield. But as a former forward, perhaps he can rest up there and kick a few goals?

 

[Lana]

Perhaps I'm being a dick here for no good reason and I'll apologise for that.

Yes, Glenn was considered good enough - clearly, but he himself didn't feel like he was ready. A mature aged player probably doesn't have those kinds of doubts (I probably shouldn't say that as it is basically a guess on my behalf).

I would think a mature aged player thinks time isn't on his side and wants to get at it right away.

I think the discussion is more around the general use of the term "mature ager" and the image it conjours with people. I think it can sometimes create some unnecessary expectations (similar to what being a Top 10 draft pick can create).

Lets just say I obviously see it as a more 'grey' than others.

You're comfortable classing Glenn as a "mature aged" player, I don't think it is quite that clear cut.

I think we can both agree that he is a likely prospect regardless of the tag attributed to him.

As for Panos - I think you're right. There are questions over his ability to run out games in the midfield. But as a former forward, perhaps he can rest up there and kick a few goals?

For me the mature age tag implies that the player is ready to go for round 1. The concept became fashionable due to the massive success of Barlow and Podsiadly, which set a high bar to reach for other mature age pick ups which doesn't follow recycled players like Blease, I don't think too many around here have high expectations of him. I wonder how it would be if we drafted a player who was getting similar numbers in the VFL who hadn't been on a list before.

I just can't see us drafting Panos, he isn't what we need right now. He'd be competing directly with Horlin-Smith for the full time inside mid role and Caddy for the Inside mid resting forward role. And we still have Hartman and Jansen sitting in the VFL waiting for a call up.

 

[Pivo]

For me the mature age tag implies that the player is ready to go for round 1. The concept became fashionable due to the massive success of Barlow and Podsiadly, which set a high bar to reach for other mature age pick ups...

Totally agree, especially with the "ready to go" aspect. For me that is one of the key criteria. Where you and I differ is (I think) whether Glenn is ready to go right away or not.

If I'm reading things correctly (not a given at the moment) then I'm sensing you think Glenn is. I'm not quite so bullish...at least not for early in the year.

...which doesn't follow recycled players like Blease, I don't think too many around here have high expectations of him.

Expectation on Blease? While Blease will cost us nothing, for all intents and purposes, I do actually have expectations for him. He has been in the system and has been given a 1 year contract. I am working on the assumption we signed him for an immediate impact (hopefully) in light of moving Varcoe on. Otherwise I'd prefer us taking a shot in the dark with pick 73.

Looking at various Phantoms on here - risky I know - there are some handy types going around that pick. Snoop Dog (who I rate as a Phantom Drafter) has Dan Nielsen going at 75 while Knightmare (another respected PD'er) originally had Teia Miles at #73 & Cory Gregson at 75. Chris25 had Webb at #69, Bower at #70 and Goodyear at #71. Handy enough players in my mind who are around that pick we won't be using after aquiring Blease.

Personally, I'd actually have more expecatation on Blease than someone like Glenn.

I wonder how it would be if we drafted a player who was getting similar numbers in the VFL who hadn't been on a list before.

Hard to say. Under the majority of our noses so it might increase expectation because they are more visible to many of us.

Look at Scully. He still gets trotted out despite being passed over a couple of times now.

I just can't see us drafting Panos, he isn't what we need right now. He'd be competing directly with Horlin-Smith for the full time inside mid role and Caddy for the Inside mid resting forward role. And we still have Hartman and Jansen sitting in the VFL waiting for a call up.

I think Panos is something of a long shot but I can see his appeal. If we were to go for a "mature ager" I'd probably look more at a guy like Shannon Taylor (who, of course, I don't really consider "mature ager" (again, me possibly being a bit dickish).

But everyone has their own take on things and the state of the list. I think I'd rather just take 4 kids under the age of 21 or 22 (actually, that was how I went in the draft comp thread).

 

[Turbocat]

Perhaps two players from each expert. The "Rolled Gold" guy you pick at 10 , and the "Bargain Buy" that you would like us to pick up late if not in this draft then as a Rookie.Very difficult to name a player within 10 place of our late picks let alone spot on , but hopefully our team can have some names that are chances for our pick. Like Butler being named by Twomey.

Of course the picks form 5-15 seem to be in such a state of flux , it may well be fifficult to determine who will be there but give a go guys.

How much should we take want V need into account. Another tall may not be ideal but long term maybe be smarter play etc...

 

[you pick one]

Simple question for the panel,Balme or no Balme at the selection table?I'm not questioning his professionalism but If I were in his position I'd rule myself out,I'd see that as the honourable thing to do in the circumstances.

 

[Daniel McL]

- Our two biggest needs are arguably another young Key Defender, but also Speed coming out of the backline/wing, if both Lever & Pickett are around at our Pick 10 (unlikely) who do you think we would go with?
- Going on after the question above, if we do go with a KPD, do you think that is because the MC think guys like Blease, Bates & Murdoch are good enough to provide that speed through the middle? (Excluding our No.1 fast guy through the middle Motlop)

 

[dazbroncos]

Can we afford to take a Wright type that might take a little longer to develop but could yield massive results down the track for us or do we need pick 10 to the kind of impact player that gets games almost immediately and produces from year 1.

I had originally thought we needed impact sooner than later but if Wright slips to us, do we take him on the basis of the payoff down the track?

Discuss

Go Catters

 

[Lana]

Totally agree, especially with the "ready to go" aspect. For me that is one of the key criteria. Where you and I differ is (I think) whether Glenn is ready to go right away or not.

If I'm reading things correctly (not a given at the moment) then I'm sensing you think Glenn is. I'm not quite so bullish...at least not for early in the year.

I wouldn't back him to make our round 1 team but he is much more likely to make an impact than the next 18 year old small defender drafted in the 50s.

Personally, I'd actually have more expecatation on Blease than someone like Glenn.

Hard to say. Under the majority of our noses so it might increase expectation because they are more visible to many of us.

Look at Scully. He still gets trotted out despite being passed over a couple of times now.

Sully? Well we needed a developing key defender and he was in good form in our VFL team, people on the boards wanted to draft a tall and he was known prospect who was going to be available at our last pick to he was used as a placeholder. There aren't too many people calling for us to draft him this year.

I think Panos is something of a long shot but I can see his appeal. If we were to go for a "mature ager" I'd probably look more at a guy like Shannon Taylor.

But everyone has their own take on things and the state of the list. I think I'd rather just take 4 kids under the age of 21 or 22 (actually, that was how I went in the draft comp thread).

Isn't Taylor a similar prospect to Blease?

 

[Pivo]

I wouldn't back him to make our round 1 team but he is much more likely to make an impact than the next 18 year old small defender drafted in the 50s

No argument there.

I'm just as much as fan of his as the next Josh Glenn fan. If he happens to land at Geelong you'll certainly not hear any complaints from me.

Sully? Well we needed a developing key defender and he was in good form in our VFL team, people on the boards wanted to draft a tall and he was known prospect who was going to be available at our last pick to he was used as a placeholder. There aren't too many people calling for us to draft him this year.

Sully, yes my mistake. I pulled his name out of the air because I remember people being keen on him last year and there was a thread created in the last couple of weeks again raising his name (admittedly without much support) so that was why I used him as an example of a VFL player that people got to see in the VFL and rated but hadn't been in "the system".

If Sully was playing the same way in the SANFL or WAFL he'd probably not even rate a mention on this board. Exposure is a big determiner in expectation, naturally.

Perhaps Taylor is a better example of a guy doing well at VFL and getting noticed. Played well in his first year of VFL, people got to see him and there is now expectation that he could make it at AFL Level.

Different people have different expectations. Some people want guys drafted to have an impact right away, others are happy to give them 2 or 3 years development.

Isn't Taylor a similar prospect to Blease?

Yep but of all the "mature aged players", Taylor is one I quite like.

However, while I like him the moment we signed Blease I knew Taylor was an unlikely pick (unless he look to rookie him).

 

[David the Cat]

Can we afford to take a Wright type that might take a little longer to develop but could yield massive results down the track for us or do we need pick 10 to the kind of impact player that gets games almost immediately and produces from year 1.

I had originally thought we needed impact sooner than later but if Wright slips to us, do we take him on the basis of the payoff down the track?

Discuss

Go Catters

We take the class player….Wells will know who to take from those available. Wright has huge raps…if Wells thinks he's a champ in the making he'll take him.

If he gets to 10….he won't get to 13….

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Another great edition of the podcast has just been completed and should be up shortly.

Thanks so much to all those who contributed questions and apologies for any we couldn't answer, they were all great questions but due to time constraints we couldn't fit all in.

Remember to tune into the board for live news and updated as the draft happens next thursday night, and for discussion on our new players once they have been picked.

 

[dazbroncos]

Seems to be a few download issues with ye old podcast …..

Says it gonna take me 37 hours… at 8 bits per sec…..

and then it crashes….

Could be me of course…… but im using iTunes on a MBP… seems pretty normal and my download speed is fine for everything else..

updating my iTunes too….

GO Catters

 

[SJ]

Wouldn't be a BigFooty Cats podcast without a few technical issues.

First YouTube upload is chock full of glitches. It is being replaced.

iTunes has the odd glitch but is okay on the whole.

 

[dazbroncos]

Wouldn't be a BigFooty Cats podcast without a few technical issues.

First YouTube upload is chock full of glitches. It is being replaced.

iTunes has the odd glitch but is okay on the whole.

iTunes update fixes several issues

Go CAtters