NFL Black QBs vs White QBs

[Exe Gesis]

This often becomes a topic, with the race-card being played, and I'm in a debate right now elsewhere about this, so I thought it would be a good place to discuss it here too.

Here's what I was saying...

The reason why black QBs get scrutinized more is this….
black QBs over the years have always been more athletic, scramblers and passers, than pure pocket passers. You go thru the list of them going back decades. It’s due to THIS alone that sees black QBs in the NFL struggle more than white QBs.
When you get a mill of pure pocket passing black QBs, you’ll see more celebrated and SB-winning black QBs…because while all the scrambling is nice, the core is presence and mastery in the pocket.
McNabb and McNair have been very close in recent times because they in the end got older/wearier legs/bodies, and had to rely on pure pocket-acumen.

Doug Williams won a SB while being a pure pocket passer, his rush stats for his time in Washington were non-existent.

Then someone backed me up...

GG,
Take a look at Tim Tebow…a white mobile QB….the only thing Urban Meyer cared about was winning college games..the skills to win in college are not necessarily compatible to winning in the pros….different games really.
Anyway, Tebow was allowed to get by on his athleticism…the coaches didn’t develop his passing skills….what is happening to Tebow right now is something that happens to a lot of young black QBs…the college coaches tend to let athletic QBs just keep running and creating plays and they don’t develop their pocket passing skills.

Then I added....

Exactly. Tebow being white is gonna get scrutinized and put down and questioned as much as black QBs…and it’s ALL DUE TO being predominantly athletic/scrambling/rushing QB than a pure pocket passer. He is being re-taught now to be more of a pocket passer. Only when he does master that will he end up a celebrated QB and possible SB-winning QB. Steve Young managed to win because he was a great pocket-passer too, but also because he was in that Niner system, with a HOF team around him. Randall Cunningham in that Niners team would’ve won SBs galore, S.Young at the Lions or Browns wouldn’t have won anything.

----------

I think I'm 100% right and am surprised that so many experts and fans in general haven't twigged on to that as the reason instead of playing the race-card itself.

 

[larkis]

GG, poor form. Let's not bring in a discussion about race or skin colour on these forums. Let's just enjoy their contribution to the game.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Agree with Larks.


Wow, i feel dirty just for saying that.

 

[wce_all_da_way]

Mexican QB's FTW.

 

[Carl Hooper]

So whats this thread about then?

Black Qbs v White Qbs? Or how scrambling QBs don't win you Superbowls?

 

[LarryBrown24]

Is JaMarcus still considered a black QB? I'm pretty sure when a black baloon is overinflated it eventually starts to turn white. Even the QB designation part is suspect

 

[manureid]

Is JaMarcus still considered a black QB? I'm pretty sure when a black baloon is overinflated it eventually starts to turn white. Even the QB designation part is suspect

Jamarcus only ever scrambles to the buffet table. And the only pocket he is comfortable with is a hot pocket. So he is neither is the answer.

 

[Exe Gesis]

Russell is Leaf. Neither is due to race itself.

The point of the thread is that there are many people who think that black QBs get hassled more than white QBs because of racism, underbelly of it---ie, "they're unintelligent," etc.

While there's still racism always about, specifically with QBs in football, my point is that it's more to do with the fact they're more athletic, and so their skills as pocket-passers suffer due to it.

Doug Williams won a SB as a pure pocket passer. Steve Young is the rare exception, and it wasn't because he was white, but because of the Niners system he was in, and surrounded by HOF talent.

Likewise, look at the scrutiny/put downs Tebow gets DUE TO the fact he's not a pure passer. If he were black, my point is that some people would deflect/perceive it as being BECAUSE he was black, as opposed to what it really is.

 

[JeffDunne]

It's a worthwhile topic to discuss if it's kept to the sociological aspects of the debate and the implications of racial stereotyping rather than debating the merits of such stereotyping.

The type of black qb's that make it to the NFL are IMO a product of racial stereotyping rather than proof of that stereotype.

Unless you're incredibly athletic you probably won't get drafted if you're black. In fact you won't even start at college if you're simply a pocket passer. It really does become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

[Southerntakeover]

It's a worthwhile topic to discuss if it's kept to the sociological aspects of the debate and the implications of racial stereotyping rather than debating the merits of such stereotyping.

The type of black qb's that make it to the NFL are IMO a product of racial stereotyping rather than proof of that stereotype.

Unless you're incredibly athletic you probably won't get drafted if you're black. In fact you won't even start at college if you're simply a pocket passer. It really does become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Thats a pretty good point.

Its interesting to note that after having made his name as a scrambler, mcnabb was able to turn himself into a pocket passer later in his career. Makes you wonder how many other players could have, had they been given the freedom to actually develop that part of their game more than the running.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Maybe if some of these guys went straight from high school to NFL they may have a better chance to make as a pure passer. Some kind of apprentice school. College coaches love running them much to their detriment come NFL.

 

[Nappies]

It's a worthwhile debate because it's a societal issue as much as it is a football issue. Those who do not want to discuss it do not have to read.

I'd also like to bring to the table the fact of how a lot of (particularly black) college QBs become WRs at the higher level...which flows on from the athleticism argument. Julian Edelman from the Pats is a white example of this as well.

On the coaching, the whole setup is contradictory. High school coaches want to win games so they get ranked in the state, improves the coaches recruiting ability and prestige. College coaches want to win games so they get ranked, improves their recruiting ability and ability to coach at bigger schools. So the development system falls down overall where it's not actually about development and allowing (particularly black) QBs to become pocket passers. If they're more valuable at that time as a rushing QB, they will just always be allowed to do that.

 

[Exe Gesis]

Those are also very good points, Nappies...the Qb-Wr conversions and the coaching ladder.

You've been on fire lately, making a lot of great points in various threads.

 

[Marklar_33]

While on the topic of those QB converts to WRs, who was the guy drafted to St Louis who they tried converting but it didnt work out...got badly injured I think...

 

[NERDY]

Mexican QB's FTW.

Haha Mark Sanchez.

 

[Nappies]

Those are also very good points, Nappies...the Qb-Wr conversions and the coaching ladder.

You've been on fire lately, making a lot of great points in various threads.

I try my best, sir.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Haha Mark Sanchez.

Jeff Garcia > Sanchez.