Rumour Bluemour Discussion thread

[HBF]

Try the term 'indefinite'...

Yeah I know.
Just trying to stay as optimistic as possible.
Just feel for the poor bloke.

 

[LanceRomance]

Try the term 'indefinite'...

well that definitely sounds bad

 

[ShanDog]

Anyway, can we find any positives?

Warnock is a better ruckmen at the hitouts, so our mids should get better service, then we are playing 17 v 18 the rest of the time.

I don't want to be someone who harps on about a player once they don't like them ad nauseum, but we essentially tried that last year and it didn't work.

Unless Robbie can be mobile around the ground, impact contests by taking marks, pressuring opposition and providing himself as a target around the ground, he shouldn't be playing IMHO. Footy is too fast and reliant on multi-position play these days for someone to be 'carried' like he has been lately.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

I wish people would just speak plainly sometimes.

All sounds like a Chinese Whisper to me...

 

[BlueTongue]

My optimism for this season was building week by week, fair to say I'm totally deflated with kreuzers injury. So much for our number 1 recruit.

Anyway, can we find any positives?

Warnock is a better ruckmen at the hitouts, so our mids should get better service, then we are playing 17 v 18 the rest of the time.


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TBH I'm hoping Big Cam gets the nod over 206 to start the season.

I think he offers us more upside (certainly more effort) and I have a feeling he will definitely improve if given the chance.

 

[Weiterbot23]

We could just go with cas and Rowe!

Both would be handy around the ground and would give us huge flexibility.

Yes we'd lose 90% of the hitouts, but we lose more than we win with Kreuzer anyway.


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[ShanDog]

Would be difficult for other guys in the backline to match up on forwards if he is rucking the middle. Could be done though.

 

[Weiterbot23]

Would be difficult for other guys in the backline to match up on forwards if he is rucking the middle. Could be done though.

Yeah no chance of happening but it could be interesting.

Still would have
Key defenders - White, Jamo, jaksch, watson (and boekhurst )
Forward - Hendo, jones, walker

Casboult and Rowe could just try and limit the effect of the opposition rucks while still being useful in general play. Cas with his marking, Rowe with his defense in the air and non *ed kicking.


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[ShanDog]

With Jaksch in the team it doesn't look so bad.... I'd love to see how well that would work over the course of 4-5 weeks, but I doubt they will ever pick a side like that! I'm with you though, would be interesting! Fits my 'ruckmen are drastically overrated in importance' rhetoric lol

 

[HBF]

We could just go with cas and Rowe!

Both would be handy around the ground and would give us huge flexibility.

Yes we'd lose 90% of the hitouts, but we lose more than we win with Kreuzer anyway.


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In the past Rowe has struggled somewhat in the ruck. And now that he has found his niche in defence I doubt the club would want to mess with that.
Wood/Warnock and Casboult to do the rucking duties until Kreuzer is good to go again.

 

[reg_lower91]

Wood is now the starting ruckman for me. Gets around the ground far better than what Warnock does (which is not to say Warnock may not have improved on that this pre-season - I'm just going off last years' form).

 

[JustaBattler]

Rowe has the size to match up on the games power forwards and his form and confidence improves every game - getting him to play ruck we end up with a big hole in defence and an ordinary ruck - dont think that will happen.

Wood has a chance to become a hero - and if he stops brianfarting stupid kicks with 30 seconds to go directly to an opposition player in front of goals- he could actually become a hero.

As for Warnock - just NO. I'd rather have ANYONE play in ruck - even Ellard.

 

[kjr8]

For the life of me I can't understand why sandilands can cover the ground better than bloody Warnock..

 

[HBF]

Wood is now the starting ruckman for me. Gets around the ground far better than what Warnock does (which is not to say Warnock may not have improved on that this pre-season - I'm just going off last years' form).

And he's a far better option when he goes forward as well.

 

[ferrisb]

I have never been a Warnock fan. And I still don't think he is the answer to our ruck problems, BUT.....

I do remember Robbie being (for him at least) quite competitive and useful in the first half of the season, and then descending into absolute uselessness. So I decided to look at the numbers.

Here's some stats for Robbie for rounds 1-11 vs 12-17 vs Cam Wood in rounds 18-23

OK, sample sizes are pretty small. But it shows a statistically significant deterioration in 2nd half of season. Not sure if he was injured or simply tired from being solo ruck for 3/4 of the season.

Cam Wood ended the season no better than Robbie started it. Except for much higher marks.

Not saying Robbie is the answer, but going off the first half of last year Robbie and Cam are pretty even. Which is much better than most people suggest.

*runs for cover*

 

[slashin_velvet]

With Warnock its almost as much percieved effort that turns people off. He looks spent when the oppositions ruckmen looks to have plenty in the tank. This body language is so negative, and it gives our opposition the mental edge that we seem to lack.

One thing I was always told in footy, no matter how tired or sore you are, you never show it.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I have never been a Warnock fan. And I still don't think he is the answer to our ruck problems, BUT.....

I do remember Robbie being (for him at least) quite competitive and useful in the first half of the season, and then descending into absolute uselessness. So I decided to look at the numbers.

Here's some stats for Robbie for rounds 1-11 vs 12-17 vs Cam Wood in rounds 18-23

OK, sample sizes are pretty small. But it shows a statistically significant deterioration in 2nd half of season. Not sure if he was injured or simply tired from being solo ruck for 3/4 of the season.

Cam Wood ended the season no better than Robbie started it. Except for much higher marks.

Not saying Robbie is the answer, but going off the first half of last year Robbie and Cam are pretty even. Which is much better than most people suggest.

*runs for cover*

It's around the ground that it hurts us. Warnock gets most of his possessions in the centre as the ball falls to him, rather than putting himself into good positions to use it. The fact that Wood averages twice as many marks as Warnock (more over their last 3 seasons) is testimony to his running to position and greater reading of the play so he can link up.

Warnock has played 33 games in his last 3 seasons and has taken 7 contested marks ... one contested mark every 5 games for a bloke 206cms is criminal. Prior to 2012 it was 1 contested mark every 2 games. A huge drop off. He was also averaged 2 and a half marks per game prior to 2012 so his workrate seems to have gone down.

Wood has been a solid one contested mark and 3 and a half marks per game player for his whole career.

One thing about Wood is he gets as many uncontested possessions as contested possessions. This suggests to me he is finding space on his opponent and this is what you need from your ruckmen. You only spend a relatively small % of time at stoppages and centre bounces. You have to have other strings to your bow.

In those aforementioned 33 games Warnock has 5 goals, Wood has 12. Ruckmen has to be dangerous.

Incidentally Kreuzer has 16 goals in his last 33 games, averages around 3 marks per game, just over a contested mark per game, and is 50/50 contested/uncontested. He is a more talented version of Wood's game style.

I'm not captivated with Warnock getting 12 disposals in a game for spurts here and there unless they hurt the opposition. The next week he may come out and get 1 kick and be a liability. He needs to close the gap between his best and worst and look like he wants to be out there. He doesn't look like he is commanding out there, is not an enforcer, show very little aggression. That's hard to manufacture at his age.

Tough to think what we have thrown at our ruck problem over the last 10 years or so and for one reason or another, never found a solution.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Oh just looked where I was. I'm going to separate this discussion and put the list stuff somewhere else.

 

[gbatman]

Warnock reminds me of specialist players in other sporting codes, does his job and gets out of the way, similar to the punter in NFL.

I've watched Warnock play, you see the situation where he should be leading, when space opens up for him, he's a good kick away from the ball carrier and it's his turn to go and he doesn't lead, he just stays out of the way. Is it because he's been told to, because he hasn't the confidence or because he can't read the play and has no idea what he's doing out there so just hovers around the middle of the ground. Either way he's not doing enough in the general transition of play.

Wood in the same situation does at least offer leads and he reads the ball in the air fairly well which is why he takes plenty of marks. Kreuzer is much the same though his ability to read the ball in the air lets him down at times. You really need a ruckman who will get involved and read the play and offer leads. Ruckmen who can get behind the ball and offer something defensively and ruckmen who can get infront of play and offer leads, particularly if we are going to go wide and kick long at times.

I don't think Kreuzer will or should be back for quite some time, I think he needs to recover and get himself very fit and work on his forward game a bit in the VFL before coming back into the AFL as we will need a ruckman who can do a lot of work, ruck long spells and spend a lot of time on the ball to keep Casboult forward more all the while staying involved in the general transition of play.

It will be interesting to see how both Warnock and Wood go this year, particularly Wood who looks and should be much fitter. Warnock 28 and Wood 27 should really be in their prime for big men.

 

[Big Sim]

Tough to think what we have thrown at our ruck problem over the last 10 years or so and for one reason or another, never found a solution.

The solution was found, developed and then buggered off the the Crows. I want so much for us to pinch a good player off those *s.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

The solution was found, developed and then buggered off the the Crows. I want so much for us to pinch a good player off those ****s.

I have two schools of thought on this.

1. Jacobs was coming on in his last year with us but hadn't done much prior to that. It was a fair 3 way tussle at the time and he didn't want to risk it. One more year and we might have been laughing.

2. I have doubts that we could have developed the likes of Jacobs and Kennedy to their current standards. It was a major weakness of Carlton at the time.

 

[LanceRomance]

I have two schools of thought on this.

1. Jacobs was coming on in his last year with us but hadn't done much prior to that. It was a fair 3 way tussle at the time and he didn't want to risk it. One more year and we might have been laughing.

2. I have doubts that we could have developed the likes of Jacobs and Kennedy to their current standards. It was a major weakness of Carlton at the time.

This

 

[Big Sim]

I have two schools of thought on this.

1. Jacobs was coming on in his last year with us but hadn't done much prior to that. It was a fair 3 way tussle at the time and he didn't want to risk it. One more year and we might have been laughing.

2. I have doubts that we could have developed the likes of Jacobs and Kennedy to their current standards. It was a major weakness of Carlton at the time.

Yeah well we didn't exactly work wonders with the Hammer, I grant you that.

 

[Stig O'Hara]

Yeah well we didn't exactly work wonders with the Hammer, I grant you that.

Well that's the thing.

Sauce is a ruck, Kennedy a forward.................got no idea what Hampson was meant to be.

Godknows how many hours we put into him.

 

[Big Sim]

Well that's the thing.

Sauce is a ruck, Kennedy a forward.................got no idea what Hampson was meant to be.

Godknows how many hours we put into him.

The very definition of a project player. A 200 cm tall athletic soccer player that with a bit of coaching can become a ruck/forward, forward/ruck, ruck, or forward. Or none of those.

In the end we turned him into Sam Docherty, which is a fine piece of development if you ask me.